College Football 2009

[Rhom]

The start of the season is determined by Labor Day. This year, Labor Day is the 7th, the latest it possibly can be, so the season started as late as it could.

Ohhhhhhhhhh...

[Celtigo]

Re: the last two posts.

I am the LAST person you'll ever catch defending the ACC, so to be clear thats not what I'm doing here. But the thing to remember about the MWC is that it is very top-heavy with BYU, TCU, and Utah. Then after that the competition gets really weak. Definitely worse than the bottom of the other conferences, even the ACC and Big East. UCONN and Louisville, and if yesterday was any indication, even Syracuse are tougher opponents than the dregs of the MWC. Now, of course nobody gives a crap about my ideas, but I would suggest that Boise State joins the MWC and then they can become the 7th BCS conference. One out of Boise, or BYU or Utah usually crashes the BCS party anyway, might as well make it official.

The only problem is that when we get into National Championship game implications. In 2007 West Virginia was one game away from playing in the national title out of the Big East. Is the Big East one of the easier of the BCS conferences? Yes. Is it top to bottom easier than the Mountain West? No way. And neither is the ACC. Thats my only real issue here. I think had Utah played in any conference other than the MWC last year that they would have dropped at least one regular season game, even the ACC or Big East. Not to take anything away from them, they were a great team, but I dont think theyd have run roughshod over any of the BCS conferences.

So I'd put it like this:

1. SEC

2. Big12

3. Pac10

4. Big 10

5. Big East

6. ACC

7. MWC

Also in regards to Big East National Championships as mentioned above, both Pitt and Syracuse have National Titles. Both have several, iirc. WVU has been to the National Championship twice, but lost one to Notre Dame and the other to Florida.

I think (like Bronn said) the MWC has more depth than you give them credit for. They went 6-1 the Pac-10 last year (who then went 5-0 in bowl games). Add to that the ACC's bottom dwellers losing to FCS squads and the depth issue isn't as clear cut. I'd agree the median ACC team is probably superior to the MWC but at this point I'd probably take BYU, Utah, and TCU over Florida State, Georgia Tech, and Virginia Tech at the top.

[Bronn Stone]

Kentucky is routinely 5th out of 6 in the SEC East and has won 3 straight bowl games (over Clemson, Florida State, and an East Carolina team that had beaten VaTech and WVU that year). I would urge caution before implying that the SEC is top heavy.

I certainly did not intend to imply the SEC is top heavy. I meant to directly state it.

Rather than suggest that Kentucky is the exception that proves the rule, I believe they are in fact the definition of the kings of the munchkins. They were a weak team that backed into a mediocre bowl games. Then played the games in their backyards (6.5 hrs. down the road for Memphis, 3.5 hours for Nashville). And dominated none of them.

When I look at Kentucky, I see a team that had a record of 13-16 against teams from the 6 BCS conferences during the past three years. A team that won only five road games against such teams in that era (2 with winning records, 3 with losing). A team that never went better than 4-5 in any season against such teams. A team that went 3-12 against the SEC East in that period.

If this is your counter-example, you might as well concede my point. Your Liberty Bowl and Music City Bowl victories aren't going to impress anyone. Mediocre bowl games are won by the team that cares about them more as often as not. Though I am sure that the one dream every Clemson and Florida State player has when he arrives on campus is to someday sneak in to the Music City Bowl. I wonder how they might have contained their collective enthusiasm.

I concede that ECU probably did care. But if that is your quality win, you are exactly six points better than the CUSA champion - at best the eighth or ninth best conference in College Football.

I suspect that Federal OSHA officials require the Wildcats to broadcast a loud beeping sound when their bus caravan heads to Tennessee for their annual appearance in the Who Cares Bowl. Can't have anyone at risk of being hit while they are backing their ways in.

Here is the impressive list of Kentucky wins over BCS conference teams the past 3 years. I've left out the three per year, all at home against extraordinarily weak 'other' teams.

2008

----------

Louisville (5-7) Road

Arkansas (5-7) Home

Mississippi State (4-8) Road

2007

----------

Louisville (6-6) Home

Arkansas (8-5) Road

LSU (12-2) Home

Vanderbilt (8-5) Road

Florida State (7-6) @ Nashville

2006

----------

Mississippi (4-8) Home

Mississippi State (3-9) Road

Georgia (9-4) Home

Vanderbilt (4-8) Home

Clemson (8-5) @ Nashville

[Rhom]

I'll take that list that you put up there in an effort to be derogatory and put it up against the bottom of any other conference.

[AndyP]

FS vs Miami looked like one of those late 80s early 90s classics, to be they are both in the ACC (Another Crappy Conference). That may have been the best game of the opening week.

Clearly the MWC is BCS quality but they are not going to be allowed in the BCS. The other conferences aren't going to want to share. While losing a game here and there or in the case of the PAC 10 going 1 and 6 against them might be embarrassing, losing ground to them because of the credibility BCS membership would confer would add a little to much competition.

[Bronn Stone]

FS vs Miami looked like one of those late 80s early 90s classics, to be they are both in the ACC (Another Crappy Conference). That may have been the best game of the opening week.

Clearly the MWC is BCS quality but they are not going to be allowed in the BCS. The other conferences aren't going to want to share. While losing a game here and there or in the case of the PAC 10 going 1 and 6 against them might be embarrassing, losing ground to them because of the credibility BCS membership would confer would add a little to much competition.

There is also the fact that the MWC would bring approximately 8 television markets with an average of twelve viewers each. San Diego and Las Vegas are their best markets, but neither UNLV or SDSU is playing very good football these days.

The whole point of my Kentucky rant was the fact that the so-called 'success' of the Wildcats of late is so far removed from the success of the good teams in the conference that it is impossible to claim anything other than the fact that a HUGE gap exists between them and the upper echelon of the league. ie - a top heavy conference.

[Celtigo]

There is also the fact that the MWC would bring approximately 8 television markets with an average of twelve viewers each. San Diego and Las Vegas are their best markets, but neither UNLV or SDSU is playing very good football these days.

The whole point of my Kentucky rant was the fact that the so-called 'success' of the Wildcats of late is so far removed from the success of the good teams in the conference that it is impossible to claim anything other than the fact that a HUGE gap exists between them and the upper echelon of the league. ie - a top heavy conference.

The Wasatch Front has a solid 2 million people. TCU is technically in the Dallas-Ft. Worth metroplex although admittedly a small private school is unlikely to ever command the primary loyalty of the UT, aTm, OU, Texas Tech fans etc. that live there

[S John]

The whole point of my Kentucky rant was the fact that the so-called 'success' of the Wildcats of late is so far removed from the success of the good teams in the conference that it is impossible to claim anything other than the fact that a HUGE gap exists between them and the upper echelon of the league. ie - a top heavy conference.

I dont understand this argument. If we look at the last 5 conference champs for each conference:

Pac- 10

2004: USC

2005: USC

2006: USC / Cal

2007: USC / Az. State

2008: USC

SEC

2004: Auburn

2005: Georgia

2006: Florida

2007: LSU

2008: Florida

Big 10

2004: Iowa and Michigan

2005: Ohio State and Penn State

2006: Ohio State

2007: Ohio State

2008: Ohio State and Penn State

ACC

2004: VT

2005: Florida State

2006: Wake Forest

2007: VT

2008: VT

Big East

2004: West Virginia, Syracuse, Boston College, Pitt

2005: West Virginia

2006: Louisville

2007: West Virginia

2008: Cincinnati

Big 12

2004: Oklahoma

2005: Texas

2006: Oklahoma

2007: Oklahoma

2008: Oklahoma

MWC (for kicks)

2004: Utah

2005: TCU

2006: BYU

2007: BYU

2008: Utah

The SEC has had 4 different conference champions in the last 5 years. That is more varied than any of the major conferences. Then, look at the Pac - 10, which is the least varied. USC has completely owned the Pac-10 for the last 5 years. Wouldnt that pretty much qualify it as top heavy?

[Rhom]

The whole point of my Kentucky rant was the fact that the so-called 'success' of the Wildcats of late is so far removed from the success of the good teams in the conference that it is impossible to claim anything other than the fact that a HUGE gap exists between them and the upper echelon of the league. ie - a top heavy conference.

And I would argue that they are a better "bottom" team than you will find in most other conferences.

The SEC has had 4 different conference champions in the last 5 years. That is more varied than any of the major conferences. Then, look at the Pac - 10, which is the least varied. USC has completely owned the Pac-10 for the last 5 years. Wouldnt that pretty much qualify it as top heavy?

Thanks. SJohn put the work in that I didn't have time to find last night when I responded. Personally, I just kind of thought it was self-evident I suppose. My argument was that I would take the bottom of the SEC (Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Mississippi State and Ole Miss) and I'd put them up against the middle of the pack from pretty much any other conference out there. I think Bronn's stats on Kentucky's bowl wins pretty much bore that out for me. And the top of the SEC rotates more than the average power conference.

To make an argument that the SEC is more top heavy than other leagues is ridiculous on its face, IMO.

As to the MWC, I'm all for them cherry picking Boise State to join the league and then giving them BCS status.

[S John]

Thanks. SJohn put the work in that I didn't have time to find last night when I responded.

Yea, its just unfortunate that by helping your argument I sort of torched my original argument that the MWC was too top-heavy to be BCS. :P Guess they are about as varied as everyone else at the top as far as who has been winning the conference lately, and more than some (Pac10, Big12).

I still contend that thier bottom is weaker than the others, but the ACC didnt do me any favors in that department over the weekend with thier basement dwellers clocking losses to both William & Mary and Richmond. Looks like UVA may actually be only the 4th best team in Virgina. Maybe even 5th, we'll have to wait and see how James Madison does this year. :lol:

[Kalbear]

The SEC is clearly not that top heavy. It might be pretty bottom-light though. Depends; right now it looks like only Vandy and Miss State are rounding the teams of the suck.

[dornish prince]

The SEC is clearly not that top heavy. It might be pretty bottom-light though. Depends; right now it looks like only Vandy and Miss State are rounding the teams of the suck.

their week one results, while admittedly against cupcakes, would beg to differ. vandy destroyed powerhouse western carolina 45-0 and miss state sqeezed out a 45-7 win against jackson state :P

i really wouldn't mention that but, in light of the william and mary debacle, i've decided to spearhead a campaign to fire al groh.

ETA: kirk ferentz is next if he doesn't straighten up his house.

[SergioCQH]

Jermaine Gresham out for the year. The nightmare season for OU continues.

[Celtigo]

Jermaine Gresham out for the year. The nightmare season for OU continues.

On the bright side, If USC takes care of Ohio State we can finally watch a title game without one of the two perennial losers involved. OU/OSU have been the title game loser 5 of the last 6 years. Shockingly the best title game in that stretch didn't involve one of them.

[Gold Storm]

The best thing the MWC could do is drop one of their lower teams like Wyoming and bring in Boise State, a conference with Utah, TCU, BYU,and Boise plus Air force, New Mexico and Colorado State (they are usually bowl teams year in and out) would match up with other BCS conferences.

[Rhom]

The best thing the MWC could do is drop one of their lower teams like Wyoming and bring in Boise State, a conference with Utah, TCU, BYU,and Boise plus Air force, New Mexico and Colorado State (they are usually bowl teams year in and out) would match up with other BCS conferences.

Agreed. I would certainly match that conference up against the ACC or Big East favorably.

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the fact that the ACC has four ranked teams in this week's top 25. What the hell has North Carolina ever done to be ranked? (Other than hiring Butch Davis... who used to be good.) And does beating a Florida State team that is a shadow of its former self really deserve a ranking for Miami? I dunno, I'm just not buying it.

The Big XII only has 5 teams in... and they're lucky to have that many because Kansas and Mizzou are 24 and 25!!!! Am I supposed to believe that the ACC has more contending teams than the Big XII?!!?

[lokisnow]

Big 12 has 6 teams ranked, three from the south, TX OK, OKS, and three from the North, MO, NE, and KS

Also, this week's picks are super easy for straight up, but full of traps for against the spread, ugh. :-p

[SergioCQH]

Also, this week's picks are super easy for straight up, but full of traps for against the spread, ugh. :-p

I disagree. I think this week is MUCH easier than last week. We actually know what these teams are made of instead of guessing blindly.

[lokisnow]

with so many ranked FBS teams playing FCS teams this week, I thought it would be prudent to look up the FCS rankings when considering picking on the spread

if anyone else finds this useful, here are the FCS rankings

ETA dammit, google, you expect me to look at dates too?

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform...iv-1aa-poll.htm

Team (First-place votes) Record Points Previous Rank

1. Richmond Spiders (103) 1-0 3,042 2

2. Appalachian State Mountaineers (10) 0-1 2,740 1

3. Villanova Wildcats (3) 1-0 2,705 5

4. Northern Iowa Panthers (3) 0-1 2,651 4

5. Montana Grizzlies 1-0 2,615 3

6. James Madison Dukes 0-0 2,235 6

7. William & Mary Tribe (3) 1-0 2,204 14

8. Southern Illinois Salukis 0-1 1,980 7

9. New Hampshire Wildcats 1-0 1,952 8

10. Elon Phoenix 1-0 1,846 11

11. Weber State Wildcats 0-1 1,826 9

12. Cal Poly Mustangs 0-0 1,453 12

13. Central Arkansas Bears 0-1 1,350 13

14. Wofford Terriers 0-1 1,262 10

15. South Carolina State Bulldogs (1) 1-0 1,229 16

16. McNeese State Cowboys 1-0 1,109 15

17. Massachusetts Minutemen 0-1 1,027 17

18. Eastern Washington Eagles 1-0 905 18

19. Texas State Bobcats 1-0 805 20

20. Maine Black Bears 1-0 709 19

21. South Dakota State Jackrabbits 0-0 475 22

22. Eastern Kentucky Colonels 0-1 467 23

23. Jacksonville State Gamecocks 0-1 430 21

24. Harvard Crimson 0-0 361 23

25. Holy Cross Crusaders 1-0 348 25

Others receiving votes: Georgia Southern 212, Liberty 183, Eastern Illinois 167, Delaware 158, Florida A&M 158, Furman 146, Colgate 123, Tennessee-Martin 106, Grambling 103, Western Illinois 103, Samford 87, North Dakota State 71, Alabama A&M 61, Hofstra 50, Montana State 50, Penn 48, Northern Arizona 38, Prairie View 38, Rhode Island 37, Hampton 36, Brown 33, Murray State 24, Stephen F. Austin 20, Southern 18, Gardner-Webb 17, San Diego 16, Jacksonville 14, Youngstown State 14, Southeast Missouri State 13, Southern Utah 12, Norfolk State 11, South Dakota 10, Coastal Carolina 7, Southeastern Louisiana 7, Tennessee State 7, Towson 7, Yale 7, Lafayette 6, Virginia Military 6, Chattanooga 5, Stony Brook 4, UC Davis 4, Albany 3, Jackson State 3, Central Connecticut State 2, Duquesne 2, Tennessee Tech 2.

and once I did that I realized most of the teams playing FCS teams either have no spread this week, or don't play a ranked FCS team. :P

[Kalbear]

I'd really love to see Boise State come into the Pac-10. Maybe get Utah in as well, or possibly Fresno St. They'd then have reasonable North/South divisions (you could split Cal and Stanford for extra fun) and 12 teams and a championship, and stop shooting themselves in the foot so much with merchandising.