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Women in combat, bad/good idea?


OldLordPlumm

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The Australian

WOMEN should be able to serve in all frontline combat units of the Australian Defence Force, including the SAS and commando units, under a controversial plan that could avert a looming recruitment crisis.

The push by Defence Personnel and Science Minister Greg Combet would remove gender as a criterion for selection for specialised categories of military service.

Removing any gender discrimination for serving in combat roles would put Australia in front of its key allies, including the US and Britain, which continue to carefully restrict where women can serve in the front line.

Bad idea IMO. Great that more roles have been opened up to women than ever before, it's just too far.

My reasoning is what Viggo says to Demi in the showers in GI Jane "The Israelis tried it."

BTW ACTU stands for Australian Council of Trade Unions. The guy has a professional past where he had to crap stir sometimes and my guess is that he might be doing it now for some other reason.

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Bad idea IMO. Great that more roles have been opened up to women than ever before, it's just too far.

Let me guess.

1. Women are not physically fit enough to fulfill the requirement for these units. (Variation: In order to allow women to serve in these units, the standards will have to be lowered, and that will reduce effectiveness of these units.)

2. Women, as fetus incubators, are too precious to be killed in dangerous front-line operations; unlike men, who, as sperm carriers, are more disposable.

3. Allowing women to serve in those units with very little personal space and a lot of tension will make all the male soldiers wanna fight to access those vaginas, and that'd be bad for unit morale.

4. Women will get raped in those units, literally. So it's for their own protection to not let them serve.

5. All of the above.

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Good idea. There's no reason to exclude women from these positions. It's my experience that workplaces with mixed genders work much better than those were one gender is dominant. The military shouldn't be any different.

Why exactly is it a bad idea? Does it exist some kind of special brotherhood in the military where women aren't welcome? In that case, you've got a problem. That's exactly the kind of groups where bad habits evolve.

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Any competent individual who meets the reqisit physical requirements should be allowed to serve in combat if the so choose. Given the asymetric nature of most modern conflicts true "combat arms" assignments are difficult to create anyway.

The harder question is whether there should be different standards for a Man and a woman to serve in a ground combat deticated unit.

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SS,

women in Canada serve in the infantry as riflemen?

No to all of those Terra.

Forgot not everyone saw that film since it was pretty average.

THE CHIEF (O.S.)

You know, the Israelis...

... they tried women in the 1967

War. Female soldiers

It seems the men couldn't get used

to the sight of women blown open and

their viscera hanging from tree

limbs. Israeli men would linger

over wounded females -- often to the

detriment of the mission, often

endangering their own lives.

Lord Oop North,

That's in the future (don't remember the date the asteriod hits Bueno Aires) way ahead of things. Although don't try star wars because that may have been in the past but it was in a galaxy far far away.

I'm actually of the opinion that there are plenty of women who can meet normal infantry requirements. On the reare occassion there are women who can even meet the requirements for SAS and commandos. That has no bearing on my opinion though.

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Re: Tempra

Would suck even more to get caught by the enemy as a woman than a man, though.

How so?

Re: OLP

No to all of those Terra.

So why quote the passage about women being blown apart? Don't men get blow apart at war, too? Why's so specific about women being blown apart that justify excluding them from certain combat units?

Also, if you're interested in some discussion, it'll be nice if you can state your case, instead of playing 20 questions. This discussion had seen many previous incarnations and there are, I dare say, no new arguments to be had. So we might as well cut to the chase and end this quickly.

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If they can meet all the requirements, I don't see why not.

What he said.

I mean, unless you've got some sort of evidence of this not working?

You keep referencing Israel, how did that go them?

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Also, if you're interested in some discussion, it'll be nice if you can state your case, instead of playing 20 questions. This discussion had seen many previous incarnations and there are, I dare say, no new arguments to be had. So we might as well cut to the chase and end this quickly.

What's your problem? I never participated in all those threads if there were some. What do you mean playing 20 questions. You're not taking this personally are you? I just wanted to here what people had to say, not forcing my opinion down their throats by writing a long speel.

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Re: Tempra

How so?

The chances of captured women being raped is likely higher than the rate at which captured men are raped. Now, I don't think that should prevent women from participating in combat roles, but I think that is something women should be (are) mindful of.

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If they meet the requirements why not? From what I understand the physical fitness requirements for most infantry/ground combat divisions will exclude a disproportionate share of women, but theres probably a solid number who would make the cut.

And no, I wouldn't give separate standards for men and women.

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The comment about the male Israli soldiers stopping when they saw a female soldier dead is very dated,this was in the 1960's when most men couldn't even imagine seeing women as worriors.I think men and women have changed a bit since then. Also, pop culture with film and video games show a male facination with the image of a woman as a soldier and warrior, so it isn't too weird or unusual to visualize. Its just a small step to actually do it in reality. Men seem to be perfectly fine seeing Milla Jojovich kicking butt in Resident Alien flicks... How many women do we see in film and video games kill and maim.

Yes, I know- reality is quite different. But what's with the tiny warriors then? Just another way of sexualizing the female?

If a woman can pass the test, she can fight on the front lines.

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Re: Tempra

If we suppose that captured soldiers will be treated differently based on sex, then might we not also employ the "men go light on women" trope and figure that women will be less likely than men to receive harsh physical torture? I mean, we're talking about violating Geneva Convention, so rape and torture are on the table. If women are more prone to being raped, are they also less prone to being tortured?

Re: OLP

What's your problem? I never participated in all those threads if there were some. What do you mean playing 20 questions. You're not taking this personally are you? I just wanted to here what people had to say, not forcing my opinion down their throats by writing a long speel.

My problem is that you started a thread, rather controversial one, and have yet to really explain yourself. When asked, you answered yes and no, and gave no further explanation. It's like talking to a wet blanket. You're not simply wanting to hear what others have to say. If that were the case, you wouldn't even mention where you stand. The reality is that you stated your opinion (women should not be allowed in these combat positions). You simply refused to elaborate on that opinion, or to offer any argument to support that opinion.

If you state a piece of opinion, then be prepared to be asked to support it. Don't run and hide behind "oh I just wanted to hear what everyone else has to say on this" when challenged.

To put it more bluntly: Put up, or shut up.

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