MMA IV 2009 - Fall into New Years.

[Oorag]

That would be incredibly bad news if Rampage really does walk away from the sport. Hopefull Lorenzo will step in and patch things up.

However, I'm really confused by a lot of what I'm hearing Rampage says. Why does he say he was unfairly coerced into fighting Liddell, Henderson, and Jardine? Liddell was the champ and the promotion's biggest star. Did he really need to be coerced into that fight? And could he be unfairly coerced into defending his title against Henderson? Especially after he goes on to say that the UFC didn't live up to its promise of promoting him as the "undisputed champion." If he wanted to be called the undisputed champion, why did he need to be forced into the matchup? I'm also confused over this talk about a title fight with Machida after TUF. Word was that Rampage chose the TUF gig and Rashad instead of a title fight. Was that a lie? If Rampage wanted to fight Machida instead of Rashad, why does he seem set on destroying Rashad during the TUF taping? And if he's talking about the UFC refusing to promise a title shot if he beats Rashad, that doesn't make much sense. Who else would they give the shot to?

[GSP]

I think he was trying to say, he was supposed to get Machida after the Jardine fight and then they got Rashad into the ring for the stupid contrived face off thing. Then it was, coach TUF and fight Rashad after. That's why he was rooting for Rashad to beat Machida. So when he had to fight Rashad anyway, he'd get the belt. To boot, the fans all took the opportunity to suggest he was afraid to fight Machida in the whole deal (as I've personally read many times when fans bip off) when he was just doing what DW wanted him to. That's what he's trying to say his gripe is on that one if I understand him.

The Henderson fight, his gripe seems to be that he wasn't promoted as a belt unifier, and didn't get the Pride belt given to him in the cage, the same way Silva did when he beat Henderson latter for the MW unification. Also, IIRC, he and Hendo were actually really good friends from their PRIDE days, and I think that wasn't a thrilling proposition for Jackson.

I remember the whole bit before he fought Liddel where he was wishing he could have had a few more fights before he fought the champ so the American fans could have come to know him. He took the fight, knocked out Liddel, and got booed by the fans. His statement in the link is not the first time he has mentioned how that got to him (specifically, before his first fight for the UFC in England (was that Hendo?) he seemed hopeful that the UK would adopt him, as his own country booed him for knocking out the champ).

I don't know one way or the other about the great sentimental value the A Team roll held for him, but he is remarkably consistent in the matters I have read something about. Sounds like DW's typical bullshit to me.

[Commodore]

McSweeny didn't look all that impressive on TUF. Both guys were gassed after a few min.

Makes me wonder how someone who doesn't look as fit, like the Big Country guy, can last.

[Stego]

Heh...Rampage is an interesting character, but.... he has zero chance of ever getting the belt back, so... he may as well retire.

I don't blame White one bit. These primadonna egomaniacs need to shut the fuck up and collect their hundreds of thousands of dollars for a 15 minute fight.

[Ser Barry]

I don't blame White one bit. These primadonna egomaniacs need to shut the fuck up and collect their hundreds of thousands of dollars for a 15 minute fight.

Or shut the fuck up and pick up their millions of dollars for an ongoing movie franchise* ;)

*maybe

[Ken Stone]

From the sound of things, and granted I don't watch TUF or any reality shows for that matter, it sounds as though they're doing what I thought they'd do. Kimbo will have fights that he can win in this series, probably enough so that he might go deep into the show and make enough noise that DW can reasonably excuse himself for signing him on long-term.

Well his first fight is next week and he is fighting Roy Nelson, which shocked me. I figured they would want to build to that fight.

[Oorag]

I think he was trying to say, he was supposed to get Machida after the Jardine fight and then they got Rashad into the ring for the stupid contrived face off thing. Then it was, coach TUF and fight Rashad after. That's why he was rooting for Rashad to beat Machida.

The way the UFC marketed it, Rampage chose the TUF gig over the title shot. I guess Rampage is saying that it really wasn't his decision.

I can't say I'm surprised if it's true.

The Henderson fight, his gripe seems to be that he wasn't promoted as a belt unifier, and didn't get the Pride belt given to him in the cage, the same way Silva did when he beat Henderson latter for the MW unification.

I recall it being pretty heavily marketed as a title unification bout. UFC 75 was called "Champion vs. Champion" after all. As far as not getting the Pride belt in the ring, who knows why that didn't happen. Maybe Hendo simply didn't bring it.

I remember the whole bit before he fought Liddel where he was wishing he could have had a few more fights before he fought the champ so the American fans could have come to know him. He took the fight, knocked out Liddel, and got booed by the fans.

Rampage is on another planet if he thinks that having fought another Marvin Eastman or somesuch would have made fans happy that he knocked out the UFC's poster boy. They were always going to boo him. Ten typical UFC fans have barely a drop of class between them. They boo and whine and embarrass the sport. Rampage just wasn't yet prepared for the culture shock coming from Japan.

[Stego]

The A Team has as much chance of being an epic franchise as the recent remake of The Dukes of Hazzard.

I'm really looking forward to the Nelson/Slice fight.

[Horus Ex Machina]

However, I'm really confused by a lot of what I'm hearing Rampage says. Why does he say he was unfairly coerced into fighting Liddell, Henderson, and Jardine? Liddell was the champ and the promotion's biggest star. Did he really need to be coerced into that fight?

I can at least speak to this. If you remember at the time after he defeated Marvin Eastman, he had said at that time that he did not want to fight Liddell immediately. He showed a considerable amount of cage-rust in that fight and acknowledged it. He wanted one more fight to be prepared for a fight against Liddell and ensure that he would have the best chance possible to beat him. If you remember, at the time, he was the last un-avenged loss on Liddell's record and they were already playing it up with Rogan and Goldie that Chuck would have this opportunity. I was saying at the time that it was likely that DW would try to railroad him into fighting Liddell before he was ready to give Liddell the opportunity to beat him.

Now I was of the opinion even before that fight that Rampage was better than Chuck. That the first fight was not a fluke since it lasted for some time, and at no time did it appear that Chuck would be able to overwhelm Rampage. Going into a second fight, with proper preparation, there was no way Chuck would win a rematch. My only caveat was whether Rampage had had enough time to get back into a rhythm to perform at his best, because you can train all you want, but you get the most out of actual fights. I didn't like the matchup at the time and I understood why Rampage didn't want it when he got it. But DW and Zuffa is known for these type of matchups. They do what they think is best for them. I understand, but that does not mean that Rampage is under any obligation to like it. He now found another way to make money, and it's his right to pursue it.

We're not living in the USSR, no matter what DW says. I think that Rampage fights in the UFC again, but it won't be soon, and alot will depend on how his movie career takes off bc this is a big role with a big budget and it will be seen in theatres. It stands a good chance of making money, hell GI Joe did and noone considered that movie to be great beforehand. If this role leads to new roles then we may have truly seen the last of him. It's about the money and respect. DW respects noone.

[GSP]

Commodore, I wouldn't worry about Roy Nelson's chances on behalf of his blubber. Make no mistake, that guy carries some extra weight but is athletic as hell. Brandon Shwaub (sp?) in his TUF 10 blog over on Junkie mentions how Nelson is also by far the best basketball player in the house, and is hyper competitive in everything he does. He actually tends to show up on fight night with some damn good cardio. He doesn't look it, but that guy is 100% athlete. He is also the very worst case scenario for Kimbo to fight next episode, imho. I'm hoping Kimbo makes a show of it, but I'd never put my money on him in that particular fight.

Stego, the hundreds of thousands of dollars those guys make for a fifteen minute fight, hardly takes into account the constant training that goes into what they do or the fact they make the UFC far more money than their pay reflects in the whole deal. Did you even read the link outlining what Jackson's beef was? At the end of the day, I'd hesitate to take DW's word as gospel or to basically repeat it as such. You'd never know it the way DW mockingly sounds off in the media circuit on these issues, but there is a second side to the story.

[Oorag]

If you remember at the time after he defeated Marvin Eastman, he had said at that time that he did not want to fight Liddell immediately. He showed a considerable amount of cage-rust in that fight and acknowledged it. He wanted one more fight to be prepared for a fight against Liddell and ensure that he would have the best chance possible to beat him. If you remember, at the time, he was the last un-avenged loss on Liddell's record and they were already playing it up with Rogan and Goldie that Chuck would have this opportunity. I was saying at the time that it was likely that DW would try to railroad him into fighting Liddell before he was ready to give Liddell the opportunity to beat him.

Yeah, I did remember Jackson's comments sometime after I posted. I don't know if it was really cage rust that he experienced as much as "octagon jitters" as Rogan and Goldie so like to call it. He hadn't been on a tremendous lay-off before the fight, it was just the new experience of fighting in America, in a cage, etc. I don't think it's fair to say that the UFC was deliberately setting him up to fail to Liddell. There were probably a number of factors that went into him getting pushed into the title shot. For one, I'm sure they hadn't brought Jackson into the UFC so he could fight guys like Eastman. They wanted big fights out of him, fighting guys on his level. Second, as I recall Liddell had pretty much cleaned up the LHW division at that point. Why would they either put Liddell on the shelf while Jackson takes another gimme fight, or pit Liddell against an obviously inferior challenger with Jackson in the mix? I'm sure the UFC was thinking about their own bottom line rather than Jackson's career when they made the Liddell matchup, but I think it's going too far to suggest that they're indirectly fixing fights.

[Horus Ex Machina]

Yeah, I did remember Jackson's comments sometime after I posted. I don't know if it was really cage rust that he experienced as much as "octagon jitters" as Rogan and Goldie so like to call it. He hadn't been on a tremendous lay-off before the fight, it was just the new experience of fighting in America, in a cage, etc. I don't think it's fair to say that the UFC was deliberately setting him up to fail to Liddell. There were probably a number of factors that went into him getting pushed into the title shot. For one, I'm sure they hadn't brought Jackson into the UFC so he could fight guys like Eastman. They wanted big fights out of him, fighting guys on his level. Second, as I recall Liddell had pretty much cleaned up the LHW division at that point. Why would they either put Liddell on the shelf while Jackson takes another gimme fight, or pit Liddell against an obviously inferior challenger with Jackson in the mix? I'm sure the UFC was thinking about their own bottom line rather than Jackson's career when they made the Liddell matchup, but I think it's going too far to suggest that they're indirectly fixing fights.

You may have a point there. The LHW division was not deep at the time. It's the reason why there were so many double and trilogy fights made in that division at the time. But it's likely all the same to Jackson and who knows what words were said when they were trying to get him to take that fight. DW has never shown much concern when a fighter's plans don't coincide with his own. That coupled with this situation, which is a great deal for Jackson btw, may have cinched it. It seems fighters have to sacrifice thier own interests in favor of the UFC's as with the situation with the Liddell fight, but the UFC can never reciprocate without complaint.

In the end it doesn't change the dynamic. Rampage would be insane to turn down a major movie deal and DW knows it. Just like I would never expect Gina Carano to have turned down a Soderbergh film for MMA. That would have gone even if she had somehow beaten Cyborg.

[Ser Barry]

The other side of the story is of course that if Chuck wins we have a great revenge story and the chance of a threepeat. Rampage won and we have Chuck replaced at the top by another hugely charismatic figure. Win/win for the UFC, as it usually is. If Zuffa thought that Chuck was waning then the smartest thing to do was to have him lose to someone who could replace him as their top billing.

I watched the TUF episode. Well at least McSweeney didn't make a liar out of me. How did Shivers let him out of that Americana? I still gave the fight to Shivers mind you, puzzled by that scoring. The fight pick for next week just shows how badly Rampage is doing at this game. Surely you would realise that Kimbo is a target and pick the fight for him while you have a chance. Mind you, that fact that Rampage stacked his team with the bigger, shitter fighters kind of limits his options.

[Horus Ex Machina]

Word is that Silva and Belfort have agreed to meet at UFC 108.

Belfort has said that he's friends with Silva but apparently that's not as close as Silva is with Lyoto, or perhaps it has more to do witht the fact that he isn't managed by Ed Soares. Whatever the case, this will be a great test for Silva that I can see lasting well into the second or third round. But make no mistake,... Silva will prevail.

[Commodore]

I read a rumor on Yahoo that UFC 108 will have Silva vs. Belfort, Hendo vs. Marquadt, Evans vs. Thiago Silva.

Seems like that would be quite the card.

[benderschweiz]

I read that Akiyama vs. Wand. may be on that card as well. If so it'll be even more stacked than last years Ultimate.

[benderschweiz]

Word is that Silva and Belfort have agreed to meet at UFC 108.

Belfort has said that he's friends with Silva but apparently that's not as close as Silva is with Lyoto, or perhaps it has more to do witht the fact that he isn't managed by Ed Soares. Whatever the case, this will be a great test for Silva that I can see lasting well into the second or third round. But make no mistake,... Silva will prevail.

One of Machida's brothers has been training with Belfort in Vegas and it was pretty obvious he's added some elements of Karate from looking at his stance and gameplan against Franklin. This will probably be the closest we get to a Silva vs. Machida. I still don't trust Belfort's mental make up to compete with someone with superior skills. He's got that punchers chance though.

[Ken Stone]

The Kimbo/Nelson fight went down exactly as everyone thought it would. I thought that afterwards Dana was acting like a douchebag though. He clearly does not like Nelson and want's him no where near the UFC. If Nelson doesn't win it I doubt we see him fight on any UFC card in the future.

[Ken Stone]

I also think it's interesting how it seems that everyone is so impressed by Kimbo in that fight. He didn't do anything. He got taken down and pounded out pretty easily. Dana of course had to play it like "Kimbo looked awesome, even though he lost." You know that if that fight had happened on a Strikeforce card it would have been "HAAHAHHAHA! Kimbo got beat by a fat guy! He would never make it in the UFC! HAHAHAHHAA"

[Stego]

Kimbo proved he doesn't have what it takes, as far as I'm concerned. Can you imagine what Lesnar would do to him?