NFL III: gunslinging, for the fun of it

[DanteGabriel]

Since the previous thread is on page 22...

I take it you did not pay attention to what Charles Woodson's right arm was doing on that play. It should be called PI 100% of the time for any team any player.

Woodson didn't look like he really redirected the receiver or change his momentum. It looked like he just had his arm out there to help him keep track of the receiver.

Brett Favre can clearly still play at an elite level, but the difference in pass protection between the O-Lines tonight was all the difference. Packers also had a much better running game than the Vikes did tonight. And the Packers were pretty much a Donald Lee end zone drop from tying this game... And of course if Favre's pass is picked in the end zone, that could have been the difference in this game tonight too. Jared Allen's dominance notwithstanding.

[Slurktan]

Woodson didn't look like he really redirected the receiver or change his momentum. It looked like he just had his arm out there to help him keep track of the receiver.

He turned the receiver's shoulders away from where the ball was going by grabbing and pulling on the receivers right arm/shoulder. As I said it should be called PI 100% of the time.

[Biter]

Five undefeated teams remain:

Colts: at Tennessee (.000), then at St. Louis (.000)

Broncos: against New England (.750), then at San Diego (.500)

Giants: against Oakland (.250), then at New Orleans (1.000)

Vikings: at St. Louis (.000), then against Baltimore (.750)

Saints: against NY Giants (1.000), then at Miami (.250)

Which undefeated team are you most surprised to see having a 1.000 record so far?

[Lord O' Bones]

Which undefeated team are you most surprised to see having a 1.000 record so far?

Easily Denver.

[Mexal]

Easily Denver.

Especially since they should have lost the first game of the season. I think the biggest surprise of it all is the high level that the Denver defense is playing at. They're playing really really really well.

As for the other teams, I don't know. The Colts and Giants aren't much of a surprise. The Vikings were always a QB away from dominance. I think the Saints would be the other surprise simply because their defense has always been attrocious. But Greg Williams has whipped them into shape and I think a lot of us (myself included) underestimated his impact. He did it with Washington when they had zero playmakers so should have assumed he could do it with NO but I just didn't think he'd do it that fast.

Brett Favre can clearly still play at an elite level, but the difference in pass protection between the O-Lines tonight was all the difference.

Of course he can, but he's old and he'll ware down, just like he did for the Jets. The only blessing is he plays in a dome now and doesn't have to deal with the frigid weather all the time.

[Lord O' Bones]

That PI call was bullshit.

[Maithanet]

I went to bed before the pass interferance call, but I almost always feel like they are bad calls. Maybe its just becuase I have more of a defensive mindset.

Anyways, I will pile on the Rodgers bandwagon. Considering how little protection he had, he was rock solid. Way more impressive outing than Favre, who was giving the announcers plenty of time to think of superlatives for his latest pass while waiting 5, 6, 7, 8 seconds before throwing the ball. Honestly, any pro quarterback (not you Jamarcus) would be able to put up 400 yards under those conditions.

[Rockroi]

I have seen stroking a athlete and I have seen ESPN and Brett Favre. There has never been anything approaching this. I have never even heard of something like this. I honestly want to just put it behind us.

One thing is clear: the guy can still play football and does it pretty well. But that guy Rogers seemed to have a few things going for him as well.

Anyway, wanted to address some comments from the previous thread:

Annelise

They also said, and I don't know if it's true of course, that Brady supposedly told a couple of the Ravens that one or two of those calls were crap.

I just wanted to address this point from the previous thread; Brady did not say that the calls were crap. What Brady said was that he empathized with the defensive players who are trying to do their job, AND that he did not think any of them acted maliciously (I think Tom is giving them too much credit; Suggs is clearly falling trying to make contact with Brady). However, Brady further said that the rule was there for a reason (no need to elaborate: Brady IS the reason) and that its designed to protect the players much in the same way chop blocking is illegal to protect defensive players (he rattled off like 5 different things, but you get the idea).

Is the rule unevenly enforced? Absolutely. So is speeding; that does not mean the guy who WAS speeding did not deserve the ticket.

Ser Possum

(again from the earlier thread)

Ahh, so that's why he jumped up and down throwing his arms in the air like a toddler having a tantrum after both of the "hits". He was trying to let the refs know not to throw the flag because he doesn't want to be overprotected.

He was doing what EVERY SINGLE Wide Receiver and defensive lineman do when they are held- he made SURE the ref’s saw it. Or is “enforcing the rules†now cause for chastising someone?

And Rock, it's a good thing you've mind-melded with Terrell Suggs so you know exactly what he was thinking during that play.

ORLY? Hmm… because apparently everyone from Ray Lewis to Mike Ditka seem to think THEY know what Suggs was thinking- did they also mind meld with the all pro player? Lewis claims Suggs was actually trying to avoid Brady- by, of course, falling at Brady’s legs for no reason. Ditka (and Tom “They Hate Their Coach†Jackson) claims that Suggs was “pushed†into Brady… which is a fascinating look at physics because the guy who supposedly “pushed†Suggs was standing on the side of Suggs and only had one arm on him- if you think that an O-lineman in the NFL, standing to the side of Suggs can push Suggs forward using ONE ARM, my friend that is the best O-lineman in NFL history right there.

My take is simple: Suggs was trying to get at the QB like he always does, and lunged at Brady in the hopes of making contact. His free fall indicates a “I’m-just-falling-don’t-mind-me-if-I-happen-to-hit-Brady†type of move. And again, it does not matter. The rule is the rule.

Even if we are to say that Brady is a pretty-boy QB who wants to be protected; even if we say that Suggs WAS NOT trying to hit Brady, but was trying to avoid him; even if we all agree the rule is improperly enforced- that avails the Ravens NOTHING: Suggs broke the rule, even if at the last second he changed his mind. Its not up to us to go into people's heads and try to find motive or intent. All the refs can do is watch the play.

But that will not stop Ray Lewis from bitching.

[Gold Storm]

Continuing the fullback discussion from the last thread;I cannot remember the last big named FB drafted in the first couple rounds. They do play an important role, Tomlinson was a better RB when he had Neal blocking for him; however, if the wildcat stays around, and the NFL gets more power rushing attacks, I believe we will see more FB stay around in the NFL.

[Mexal]

Continuing the fullback discussion from the last thread;I cannot remember the last big named FB drafted in the first couple rounds. They do play an important role, Tomlinson was a better RB when he had Neal blocking for him; however, if the wildcat stays around, and the NFL gets more power rushing attacks, I believe we will see more FB stay around in the NFL.

The Bengals use a fullback. From what I understand, from the years '04-'07, the Bengals used the fullback in the most plays in the league. They were also the best set up for playaction passes and used it the least amount of any team. Dumbasses.

[Rockroi]

Continuing the fullback discussion from the last thread;I cannot remember the last big named FB drafted in the first couple rounds.

Oh God... "Touchdown" Tommy Vardell? He was taken 9th overall in 1991? 1992? And IIRC wasn't he on the Lions when Sanders rushed for 2K? Mike Alstott was drafted in the second round, but I do not recall if he was a fullback in college.

[Jaime L]

Fullbacks are great. Probably the most old-school position on the field because they don't fit into the "new" school concept of offense. But who doesn't love fullbacks? Anyone? Guys with no necks, often from community colleges or the marine corps...guys that make blowing up linebackers basically their complete job description, guys that make catching a pass in the flats riveting and potentially hilarious the way they rumble down field looking for a CB to just obliterate.

The Skins use a fullback often, Caveman Mike Sellers outta Walla Walla Community College who runs about 280-290, makes pro bowls and generally functions as the scariest single dude on the roster. Could easily see a future where guys like that are phased out of the game, but what a sad day that will be.

[Annelise]

I just wanted to address this point from the previous thread; Brady did not say that the calls were crap.

As far as what he said, I can only tell you what was reported. Perhaps the report was based on this, not sure: [brady] .. on the Suggs' penalty in the second quarter, "Was it a bad hit? No way. He barely touched me. But they were calling it tight. That crew usually calls it tight."

So apparently that particular group of refs is known well enough for calling narrow/tight, that the Pats knew to expect it and prolly the Ravens should have too... and maybe they did, but I expect it's hard to adjust your play per officiating crew. Sounds like some of the consistency issues, at least, could be addressed through some clarification with the refs, one way or the other.

As far as the broader argument about the rule, it's that the owners overreacted to protect their prized investments and that said rule is disproportionately affecting the game (for the worse). If you disagree, cool.. I'm not sure where I fall on it yet; I think we'll keep hearing about it in any case.

[Maithanet]

The Skins use a fullback often, Caveman Mike Sellers outta Walla Walla Community College who runs about 280-290, makes pro bowls and generally functions as the scariest single dude on the roster. Could easily see a future where guys like that are phased out of the game, but what a sad day that will be.

I agree, good fullbacks are incredibly helpful when it comes to getting the run going and enforcing your will on the defense. During the Bucs game, they listed Sellers as 235, and we all knew that wasn't right. CBS has him listed at 273, and that's at the low end of his range.

I hope Neal goes to the hall of fame, although I'm not sure he will.

[Jaime L]

I agree, good fullbacks are incredibly helpful when it comes to getting the run going and enforcing your will on the defense. During the Bucs game, they listed Sellers as 235, and we all knew that wasn't right. CBS has him listed at 273, and that's at the low end of his range.

I hope Neal goes to the hall of fame, although I'm not sure he will.

235, wow. He might be 273...but I always just assumed he was 280+. Like an O-lineman without the gut.

[Swordfish]

Continuing the fullback discussion from the last thread;I cannot remember the last big named FB drafted in the first couple rounds. They do play an important role, Tomlinson was a better RB when he had Neal blocking for him; however, if the wildcat stays around, and the NFL gets more power rushing attacks, I believe we will see more FB stay around in the NFL.

Everything is cyclical in the NFL. Right now we are seeing a downturn in fullbacks, but i agree with you that we're likely to see a revival. I don't think that extra tight end can usually do what a true fullback can do.

I mean, it's a 53 man roster. We have space for guys who do nothing but return kicks and long snap, but not for fullbacks, even if we only use them 10 plays a game?

[Bronn Stone]

Vardell was listed as a FB, but he was really just a big tailback. He was too tall to fit the mold. He was nothing special as a blocker.

[Annelise]

So apparently Rush Limbaugh, along with St. Louis Blues owner Dave Checkett is trying to buy and operate the Rams. If that goes through, that'd effectively put them in the Dallas category for me.

[DanteGabriel]

So apparently Rush Limbaugh, along with St. Louis Blues owner Dave Checkett is trying to buy and operate the Rams. If that goes through, that'd effectively put them in the Dallas category for me.

Well, that would be the first time I actually want an NFL franchise to go bankrupt.

[The Wedge]

So apparently Rush Limbaugh, along with St. Louis Blues owner Dave Checkett is trying to buy and operate the Rams. If that goes through, that'd effectively put them in the Dallas category for me.

There are times I'm glad I moved away from St. Louis in the mid-90s just before the Rams moved to town so I do not have any true rooting interest in them.

If Limbaugh ends up an owner, I'll be doubly glad.