NFL III: gunslinging, for the fun of it

[Swordfish]

McNabb did prove to be an very good quarterback (although he has never thrown for 4000 yards); however, at the time Limbaugh made his comments, back in 2003, his overall statistics were not particularly impressive. His passers ratings, discounting his rookie year in which a poor passer's rating is understandable, were 77.8, 84.3, and 86.0 and he was off to an abysmal start when Limbaugh made his stupid comments. Limbaugh shouldn't brought race into the discussion but this is more of a case of McNabb proving Limbaugh wrong than Limbaugh being unable to give credit to an excellent quarterback. At that time, McNabb was on the high side of average, nothing more.

And coming off what a lot of people perceived as a major choke job in the NFC championship 'vomit game' I think.

*goes to throw up because I've been forced to 'defend' rush friggin limbaugh*

[Annelise]

I listened to a clip of ol' Rush commenting on the reason behind the criticism of Rex Grossman post-Superbowl. It was .. wait for it.. the result of the sports media's "social concerns" that they are "first and foremost interested in." And the reason why they wanted him not to do well is for one reason.. "because he's a white QB." And thus, "targeted for destruction."

Oh yeah.

[awesome possum]

McNabb did prove to be an very good quarterback (although he has never thrown for 4000 yards); however, at the time Limbaugh made his comments, back in 2003, his overall statistics were not particularly impressive. His passers ratings, discounting his rookie year in which a poor passer's rating is understandable, were 77.8, 84.3, and 86.0 and he was off to an abysmal start when Limbaugh made his stupid comments. Limbaugh shouldn't brought race into the discussion but this is more of a case of McNabb proving Limbaugh wrong than Limbaugh being unable to give credit to an excellent quarterback. At that time, McNabb was on the high side of average, nothing more.

McNabb may have been high side of average in the passing game at that point, but he made up for it with his legs (before the injuries forced him to focus on his passing skill). He was exciting to watch, like all good scrambling QBs are, and hence the hype. It was justified too, I believe.

The Limbaugh comments were more manufactured controversy than anything because when that piece of crap starts falling from the spotlight he has to do something to get back in it. And he's a favorite whipping boy of, well, just about all people but those who adore him. Whether he actually deserved it for that comment doesn't matter. He had it coming for all the racist, hateful crap he had spewed before it.

[Slurktan]

As long as we're on the subject, who is the best African-American QB in NFL history to this point? I honestly think that I would argue that Donovan is. Doug Williams gets props for winning a Super Bowl, Moon was one of the best pure passers in the game for a time, McNair quietly ripped it up for a lot of years, and Randal Cunningham was amazing in spurts but perhaps didn't put together an outstanding body of work. I feel like McNabb has been very consistently solid, usually one of the better QB's in the league, been great at times (honestly, the year he and TO were together they fucking lit people up through the air), and has, again, been to five conference title games. And he had a bad fourth quarter pick in that Super Bowl v. New England but he was OK otherwise in that game.

Warren Moon is by far. The only reason he doesn't get more credit in the media is because he is a wife beater.

[DanteGabriel]

Don't forget that the record-setting (for the time) offensive juggernaut of the Vikings of Randy Moss's rookie year had Randall Cunningham as the QB.

[Rockroi]

Here is the exact quote made in September 2003 (well before the choke/vomit game):

"I don't think he's (McNabb's) been that good from the get-go. I think what we've had here is a little social concern in the NFL. I think the media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well. They're interested in black coaches and black quarterbacks doing well. I think there's a little hope invested in McNabb and he got a lot of credit for the performance of his team that he really didn't deserve. The defense carried this team."

I cannot glean that Limbaugh is saying that no black QB has ever done well. Limbaugh knows full well that Warren Moon was black (Moon is a regular contributor to the GOP), to say nothing of Doug Williams and Steve McNair, Randall Cunningham and Dante Culpepper. I mean, its possible, but I do not think that is exactly what's there. I think the main point was that somehow black QBs were not doing well AT THAT TIME and that the media was making mediocre black QBs sound better than they were. I think that was what Rush was saying and that IS racist. Limbaugh would have done himself a favor had he said what I believed: that for whatever reason, the media wanted to make DONOVAN MCNABB out to be better than he really was, which I thought was 100% what they did throughout that period. I do not think its racial; I think its because its Philadelphia and McNabb is apparently a really, really nice guy.

What I always found perplexing was that he made the comments about 15 feet away from Tom Jackson and Michael Irvin. And I was unaware that Michael Irvin was ever afraid to speak his mind if he were offended; and Tom Jackson has never been bad at making somebody "put up for shut up." I have never been given a clear answer as to why they just sat there. A few years later, Michael Irvin claimed that Tony Romo must have some black in him in order to run so fast. Classy! (but let me say that, for the record, Rush's comments were clearly racist and were far worse than Irvin's, which were just fucking stupid).

Regardless, I am not sure Rush is the right man for the job. I mean, unless the Rams really, really need some Oxy.

[Rhom]

I'll put my vote in for Warren Moon as well.

Cunningham's spectacular year in Minnesota came in the middle of that amazing string of "great for one year" QB's IIRC. Unless I'm completely forgetting things, I seem to recall a string of years where Jeff George, Brad Johnson, Randall Cunningham, and finally Daunte Culpepper stepped in and had one spectacular year before being replaced.

[Rhom]

Nothing official yet that I can find, but the usually reliable Adam Schefter is reporting via Twitter that Michael Crabtree has signed with the 49ers.

I'm not sure how I feel about this. All the accounts I've read say that he was a hard worker and a great teammate at Texas Tech. But that flies in the face of the Crabtree we've seen since the draft. Hopefully, this is a sign that he's creating some space between him and the advice he's been getting from Neon Deion, Eugene Parker, and his cousin. If he can get onto the practice field and show that he's willing to work, I think Singletary and the team will move past this mess.

I don't know that I think he can be anything more than the third receiver (eta: this year) on this team at this point, but I do believe he could work wonders as a slot receiver and make some good moves on some post routes. It will take time for him to learn the plays and fully understand his eventual role in the offense, so I'd like to see his talent used in some sort of basic way just to get him on the field.

[Mexal]

Well, at least they'll have him for next year and possibly for a playoff run. At this point, I don't think it can hurt. But honestly, I think he'll be completely useless and I really really hope the deal he gets is crap.

[Rhom]

Wow... the more I read about this Crabtree thing, the more bizarre it gets!

As Maiocco posted on his Twitter page, somehow MC Hammer has gotten involved in this whole thing. According to Maiocco, Hammer was seen leaving with Jed York and Michael Crabtree. Maiocco says that Deion Sanders lived with Hammer down in Fremont when he was a 49er. Deion's agent was (maybe still is) Eugene Parker, so I guess that's not such a huge stretch. Nonetheless, when you get MC Hammer involved, well, things have officially gone from crazy to bizarre.

Please Hammer don't hurt 'em!!!!! :rofl:

[Mexal]

Cleveland just traded Braylon Edwards to the Jets for Chansi Stuckey, some LB and 2 draft picks.

If Braylon can get focused and make some catches, he could do well in NY.

[Gold Storm]

Edwards was on his way out in Cleveland, not surprised that its the Jets though Mangini must still have their number on his cell phone.

[Mya Stone]

Cleveland just traded Braylon Edwards to the Jets for Chansi Stuckey, some LB and 2 draft picks.

If Braylon can get focused and make some catches, he could do well in NY.

Yikes. But considering how ineffective (read: smaller market = easier to ignore) TO has been in Buffalo this year (and I consider his skill set far superior to Braylon Butterfingers), I'm hoping that this doesn't make the Jets that much better.

I'm such a homer sometimes. :P

[Maithanet]

Cleveland just traded Braylon Edwards to the Jets for Chansi Stuckey, some LB and 2 draft picks.

If Braylon can get focused and make some catches, he could do well in NY.

Wow. Good move Cleveland. Gotta build for the future and protect your star. And everyone knows, Cleveland has only one star, and he doesn't play for the Browns.

Pretty funny really. Edwards has some trouble with Lebron's entourage ===> Edwards is traded three days later. I guess the city is just hoping to appease the gods by shipping lesser athletes to New York.

[Rhom]

Pretty funny really. Edwards has some trouble with Lebron's entourage ===> Edwards is traded three days later. I guess the city is just hoping to appease the gods by shipping lesser athletes to New York.

Maybe Edwards being in New York will make it less likely that LeBron will want to sign with the Knicks or Nets! :lol:

[Jaime L]

Cleveland just traded Braylon Edwards to the Jets for Chansi Stuckey, some LB and 2 draft picks.

If Braylon can get focused and make some catches, he could do well in NY.

It's funny how Mangini is building the Jets better now than he ever did as their actual coach. Sanchez and Edwards is a great start to an offense. Can almost guarantee Braylon will finally "concentrate" better on a more functional team.

Not to say, he's doing a bad job on the Browns. Who wouldn't want to have Abram Elam, Chansi Stuckey and the Brady Quinn/Derek Anderson QB rotation of awesomeness?! That's a team you can win with. It's funny, the Browns were 10-6 two years ago...but now I only see two talented guys left on the entire roster: Joe Thomas and Shawn Rogers, and one of the two is known for loafing and overeating.

So does the Mangenius only trade with the Jets because they're giving him the best offer? Or because it's the only team he knows the phone number of? I'm gonna say the latter.

I don't know that I think he can be anything more than the third receiver (eta: this year) on this team at this point, but I do believe he could work wonders as a slot receiver and make some good moves on some post routes. It will take time for him to learn the plays and fully understand his eventual role in the offense, so I'd like to see his talent used in some sort of basic way just to get him on the field.

I have a hard time seeing Crabtree having any kind of impact at all this season. Have to imagine it'll take weeks for him to get up to speed, if it happens at all. No OTAs, no training camp...plus a team full of guys who think you're a spoiled, little brat who likely only signed because the 49ers are 3-1 and proved they don't need him. It's like that hot girl who only reciprocates interest once you're dating someone else.

[Mya Stone]

So does the Mangenius only trade with the Jets because they're giving him the best offer? Or because it's the only team he knows the phone number of? I'm gonna say the latter.

My best guess? The Jets have a tape of him using a cardboard cutout of Tom Brady in inappropriate ways. "How you like them apples, Billy Boy? Your QB BLOWS!!!"

[Jaime L]

My best guess? The Jets have a tape of him using a cardboard cutout of Tom Brady in inappropriate ways. "How you like them apples, Billy Boy? Your QB BLOWS!!!"

:lol:

[Mexal]

Not to say, he's doing a bad job on the Browns. Who wouldn't want to have Abram Elam, Chansi Stuckey and the Brady Quinn/Derek Anderson QB rotation of awesomeness?! That's a team you can win with. It's funny, the Browns were 10-6 two years ago...but now I only see two talented guys left on the entire roster: Joe Thomas and Shawn Rogers, and one of the two is known for loafing and overeating.

I think there is talent there. Besides Thomas and Rogers, I'd also say Steinbach, Mack, Harrison, Wimbley, D'Quell Jackson are all talented. Mossaquoi looked good this past week and I think Anderson is a better fit for that offense given his ability to go vertical. He'll never be an amazing QB but he can be very good at times (he put quite a few balls in a spot that only the receiver could catch in good coverage).

Personally, if I was them, I'd take someone like Bradford or McCoy in the first round next year, sit him a year behind Anderson and play for 2011. I don't think their line is all that bad on offense but they lack true weapons in the receiving core. As for their defense, Jackson and Wimbley are good, Rogers is good, no one else is. They have a ton of work to do there.

I do think this could potentially be a good move for the Browns. Braylon would never produce there and given that their year is done and Edwards was a free agent next year, it was worth getting the picks. They would have never resigned him.

[Jaime L]

I think there is talent there. Besides Thomas and Rogers, I'd also say Steinbach, Mack, Harrison, Wimbley, D'Quell Jackson are all talented. Mossaquoi looked good this past week and I think Anderson is a better fit for that offense given his ability to go vertical. He'll never be an amazing QB but he can be very good at times (he put quite a few balls in a spot that only the receiver could catch in good coverage).

Personally, if I was them, I'd take someone like Bradford or McCoy in the first round next year, sit him a year behind Anderson and play for 2011. I don't think their line is all that bad on offense but they lack true weapons in the receiving core. As for their defense, Jackson and Wimbley are good, Rogers is good, no one else is. They have a ton of work to do there.

You're right. I understated their overall talent level, and I agree with all those guys you named. But this is still an 0-4 team that really has less going for them than almost every other team in football. Does anyone think they'll be competing with the Ravens or Steelers, let alone Bengals, in even 3-4 years? The whole "fall over yourself to hire the first Belichick protege available" idea of coaching strikes me as unilaterally stupid.

And I can't stand Mangini. I wish him failure in every endeavor and I don't think I'll be disappointed.

I do think this could potentially be a good move for the Browns. Braylon would never produce there and given that their year is done and Edwards was a free agent next year, it was worth getting the picks. They would have never resigned him.

Agree that Edwards was a problem for them, and as Michigan grad who's now in a public fight with LeBron (seriously) has no future in Cleveland. I just find it hard to believe that they got everything they could by trading with the Jets. I think he trades with them both out of ease (rather than seeking the best deal) and to continue to fill his roster with the most mediocre of Jets. Like this misguided belief that just because they played under him, they're somehow better than how the rest of the league views them.