Fort Hood Shooting - 3 Soldiers involved

[ljkeane]

According to some reports this guy got all worked up by the inflammatory anti-military and anti-American rhetoric coming from the left. Somehow I don't think we'll hear the media and the Democrats and the posters here issue the same kind of condemnations against themselves that they have lodged against FoxNews and conservative talk radio and conservative activists.

Yeah my first thought when I heard about this was that the media and Democrats were probably responsible in some way. :rolleyes:

[Ran]

Jaqen,

According to some reports this guy

Please to be linking Little Green Footballs, Free Republic, and Matt Drudge "reports".

[mormont]

[mod] There is a line that demarcates trolling from debate. I think that attempting to associate other boarders with this incident - however tenuously, and even without naming names - on the basis that they share a broad political philosophy with alleged remarks that unspecified, unconfirmed speculation suggests might possibly have influenced the mind of the perpetrator, is over that line. It's nothing but smearing and provocation, and is tasteless and unnecessary. I expect that topic to be dropped immediately. [/mod]

[Luzifer's right hand]

A horrible event.

What depresses me are the reactions over here.

The comments on the Austrian news sites where I read about this attack for the first time are mainly anti-American("American Soldiers killing each other is much better than American Soldiers killing innocents in other countries."

(of course there are a lot of anti-islam comments on some of the us-centric boards I frequent, but that was to be expected and did not surprise me).

[Jed o' Tarth]

Agreed. I'm pretty disgusted by a lot of the posts in this thread.

The death of those people is a tragedy and I am very sorry for the families of the victims.

Thank you.

I have friends and family who were very close to this situation. The 'Thank You' was for them.

[WhiteHaven]

Well and this is suprising because? Those guys are being trained to kill people in seconds, it is a possibilty that soldiers go nuts and start killing everyone around them.

I am sorry for those who lost a family member today, but seriously, as long as we train people in this profession these things will happen. And they will happen even more often, when we force people to go to war.

Question: Does anyone know where he had to go? The German Media said, Iraq or Afghanistan.

[The Iceman of the North]

Well and this is suprising because? Those guys are being trained to kill people in seconds, it is a possibilty that soldiers go nuts and start killing everyone around them.

Something tells me that this kind of training isn't paramount for medical officers.

[Hereward]

Well and this is suprising because? Those guys are being trained to kill people in seconds, it is a possibilty that soldiers go nuts and start killing everyone around them.

He was a psychiatrist. I seriously doubt he'd been "trained to kill people in seconds".

[WhiteHaven]

Something tells me that this kind of training isn't paramount for medical officers.

Well, afaik in most countries it works like this:

If you want to work in the army, no matter your position, you have to complete a basic training in warfare. Could be different in the US, however, my point is that it is no wonder that those people working with other people who went to a fuckin war or people who have to go to a fucking war are going to become insane sometime.

Today, tomorrow, in two years....sometime.

And another thing: Why is a guy who is not trained to kill people in seconds actually ABLE to kill lots of people in a short time? I mean, did someone help him? Who gave him his firearms?

[Shryke]

He was firing a pair of pistols into a crowded room, it's not hard to hit alot of people.

[WhiteHaven]

He was firing a pair of pistols into a crowded room, it's not hard to hit alot of people.

Yay the German media, didn't know that. After reading four German articles, I thought that I knew everything that happened. Allright that explains why he was able to kill so many people.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

WH,

Well, afaik in most countries it works like this:

If you want to work in the army, no matter your position, you have to complete a basic training in warfare. Could be different in the US, however, my point is that it is no wonder that those people working with other people who went to a fuckin war or people who have to go to a fucking war are going to become insane sometime.

Today, tomorrow, in two years....sometime.

And another thing: Why is a guy who is not trained to kill people in seconds actually ABLE to kill lots of people in a short time? I mean, did someone help him? Who gave him his firearms?

Here if you are entering the military as a "professional" like Doctor or a Lawyer it's not unusual to get an abbreviated Basic. "This is a rifle, this is a pistol, don't touch them. Here's how to wear the uniform. These are the people you salute." The Marines are an exception. Everybody goes through full basic, or so I've heard.

[SwordoftheMorning]

Well, afaik in most countries it works like this:

If you want to work in the army, no matter your position, you have to complete a basic training in warfare. Could be different in the US, however, my point is that it is no wonder that those people working with other people who went to a fuckin war or people who have to go to a fucking war are going to become insane sometime.

Today, tomorrow, in two years....sometime.

And another thing: Why is a guy who is not trained to kill people in seconds actually ABLE to kill lots of people in a short time? I mean, did someone help him? Who gave him his firearms?

How could he kill lots of people in a short time ? Guns do that extremely well. At close quarters, you don't even have to know how to use one very well. Just point, shoot, reload, and repeat. Who gave them to him ? It's Texas, unless the laws have changed recently, u can still buy a pistol, as many pistols and all the ammo u want by simply showing your ID and waiting 3 days. At least I THINK Texas has a waiting period. I'm not sure they do.

But to your first misconception.Basic Military Training in no way prepares people to kill anyone. It's designed to take civilians and whip them into shape mentally and physically to handle the regimens of military life. All participants are familiarized with weapons, and have to pass a marksmans course. But its actually rather easy. The rest of it is getting familiar with military life, camping out, exercise, learning drill, etc. Hasan being a ROTC trained officer probably received additional training in leadership, command, and maybe even ranger and survival skills. But he was a medical officer, so after graduation, all of his training would have focused in that area.

The most incorrect idea civilians have about people going into the military is the myth that soldiers are "trained killers". Nothing could be further from the truth. Soldiers in the Combat Arms branches of the military recieve additional training in combat operations, after the completion of the basic course, but once again. There is no individual training on how to kill. The objective of military training of even a combat infantryman is to make him a functioning member of a combat unit. To follow orders and achieve the objective.

Leef mentioned Arlington Road..... funny how as the details of this have trickled out, the same thing came to my mind. Hasan is a doctor. and an officer in the US Military. But first a doctor. It boggles the mind that a medical professional commits such an horrendous act. I cant help but wondering is there a complete other level of this we simply do not know about. And maybe never will.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Sword,

Leef mentioned Arlington Road..... funny how as the details of this have trickled out, the same thing came to my mind. Hasan is a doctor. and an officer in the US Military. But first a doctor. It boggles the mind that a medical professional commits such an horrendous act. I cant help but wondering is there a complete other level of this we simply do not know about. And maybe never will.

The fact that Maj. Hasan survived means we may well learn those details.

[CloudFlare]

If I can speculate without terribly offending anyone, he was probably dismayed by September 11, and just as dismayed by our decision to invade Iraq. He asked to get out of the military at that point, even to the point of offering to pay them back for his education, but they refused. He reportedly said that he really hoped Obama would end the war. He was biding his time, and felt extreme moral conflict about being in the military during this period, but, you know, he was a psychologist. He wasn't on the front lines; it was bearable. So then, he finds out he's being deployed to Iraq. He didn't tell anyone about it, so he must have just freaked. I have no idea why he decided to take action instead of going AWOL. But, there's the story as we know it right now. Guy's an American, and a strict Islamist, and he felt ethically torn.

He could have resigned his commission then.

If reports are to be believed, he received a poor rating on his last performance review. From what I know of the military, that's usually a career ending event. Yet he was apparently promoted after the poor review.

Do any recent Army officers know if his age and specialty are withing the "normal" range for a major?

[Jenna]

Well, afaik in most countries it works like this:

If you want to work in the army, no matter your position, you have to complete a basic training in warfare.

Not true. There are positions in the military that are considered "non-combatant" roles. Chaplains fall into that and I'm pretty sure doctors do as well.

[mcbigski]

He was a psychiatrist. I seriously doubt he'd been "trained to kill people in seconds".

Apparently he took a fair amount of extra-curricular classes.

U.S. Rep. Michael McCaul, a Republican from Austin, was briefed by military officials and said Hasan had taken some unusual classes for someone studying about mental health.

"He took a lot of extra classes in weapons training, which seems a little odd for a psychiatrist," McCaul said.

[Stego]

The most incorrect idea civilians have about people going into the military is the myth that soldiers are "trained killers". Nothing could be further from the truth.

This.

Also:

Doctors start out as 0-1. To get to 0-5 used to take many years of service. At least in the Marines and Navy.

I do not understand the reasons for this attack. As it happened on the 5th of November, however, I can not help but think it was meant as a 'Wake the fuck up.'

I do not blame a mans religion for this act.

I do not blame the second amendment nor Texas for this act. A Major could easily get his hands on a rifle on a military base anywhere in the world.

I do wonder who could possibly have a deeper understanding of war than a psychiatrist who worked at Walter Reed. I also wonder if what he heard daily could have caused its own type of PTSD. I have spent some time in Veterans therapy groups and stories I have heard form others have kept me up many nights. Winter Soldier kept me up nights. This man may be his own sort of victim of these wars.

The words terrorism and treason and such are all foolishness. Defining these words is all in the eye of the beholder and is an exercise in purposeless lawyer circle jerking. Reality is never black and white.

I sincerely mourn for my fellow servicemen who died in a place that they believed to be a safe haven away from war. I hope their families will find peace one day.

[Maltaran]

WH,

Here if you are entering the military as a "professional" like Doctor or a Lawyer it's not unusual to get an abbreviated Basic. "This is a rifle, this is a pistol, don't touch them. Here's how to wear the uniform. These are the people you salute." The Marines are an exception. Everybody goes through full basic, or so I've heard.

Chaplains too - a former priest at my church left to become an army chaplain.

[DanteGabriel]

Yeah my first thought when I heard about this was that the media and Democrats were probably responsible in some way. :rolleyes:

Before Jaqen or someone else tries to pass on this meme from whatever wingnut rag they get their talking points, I'll post a pre-emptive debunking:

Conspiracy-theorist Website WorldNetDaily posts the inevitable "connection" between Fort Hood shooter Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan and President Obama, and it possesses the same level of rigor and responsibility we've come to expect from the leading source of disinformation that the president wasn't born an American. Under the headline "Shooter Advised Obama Transition," Jerome Corsi -- he of the Swift Boat liars -- writes:

Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, the alleged shooter in yesterday's massacre at Fort Hood, played a homeland security advisory role in President Barack Obama’s transition into the White House, according to a key university policy institute document.

The Homeland Security Policy Institute at George Washington University published a document May 19, entitled "Thinking Anew -- Security Priorities for the Next Administration: Proceedings Report of the HSPI Presidential Transition Task Force, April 2008 -- January 2009," in which Hasan of the Uniformed Services University School of Medicine is listed on page 29 of the document as a Task Force Event Participant.

Wrong! So thoroughly, thoroughly wrong!

That GWU document no more "advised" the Obama transition as did the flurry of think-tank documents and advisory strategies put out by endless interest groups. It had, and therefore Hasan had, absolutely no connection to the Obama administration. Here, for instance, is a story I wrote in November about one such strategy "advisory" paper prepared by the civil liberties community for the Obama transition about counterterrorism strategies. Really, this is as stupid as saying that a guy who writes a letter to The New York Times "advised" editor Bill Keller.

http://washingtonindependent.com/66931/bir...ooter-and-obama