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American Politics XXII


Tormund Ukrainesbane

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KB,

From this story we see that she has 5 kids and works as a house cleaner and tamale maker.

She consumes a lot of services(mostly a large school bill) compared to contributing a tiny bit in taxes. This "ratio" is becoming more and more common.

I believe it's going to cripple our state. We are massively cutting services in the state already and will probably have to jack up taxes as well.

FWIW, I generally like lower/middle class Mexicans better than whites in general, particularly upper class whites. They're far more realistic about life than white suburbanites.

So, she's taking services others should be getting? Is that why you want to ignore this Sheriff's corruption and abuses of power?

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From this story we see that she has 5 kids and works as a house cleaner and tamale maker.

She consumes a lot of services(mostly a large school bill) compared to contributing a tiny bit in taxes. This "ratio" is becoming more and more common.

So are poor white folks from the Appalachian, or a sizable population of the south.

What's your point?

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You can't realistically fight illegal immigration without a)arresting mostly bown people and b) upsetting families. For sensitive liberal types A&B translate into racism and sadism.

Fuck that shit. Sadism is refusing to turn on the air conditioner at the jail when it's 120 degrees outside. Sadism is forcing a woman to give birth to a baby while chained down. Sadism is putting someone in a restraint chair until they die. Sadism is cutting off the insulin of diabetic patients until they die. Sadism is prison guards beating a man until his neck and toes are broken, and his intestines rupture, then leaving him in a cell with no medical treatment for 6 days.

Do I need to FUCKING go on?

Racism is pulling into Guadelupe and demanding ID from every brown-skinned person in sight. Racism is fabricating offenses for latino drivers for the excuse of pulling them over and demanding proof of citizenship.

Do not fucking tell me that Sheriff Joe is the only thing standing between Phoenix and the barbarian hordes. We have no more problems than San Antonio or San Diego. Take that shit and sell it to someone who is buying.

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So, she's taking services others should be getting? Is that why you want to ignore this Sheriff's corruption and abuses of power?

I think Joe's a scumbag who abuses his power. Compared with how MCSO used to operate* his abuses are minor though. The Justice Department is gearing up to slap him down though. He's also not the healthiest man and could kick the bucket shortly.

Big-picture though, I think illegal immigration is already causing huge issues and will continue to do so. I think American government, all branches and all levels, has been incredibly foolish to not recognize them and deal with them. So I support Joe's tilting at the illegal immigrant windmill. That will make liberals apopolpetic(sp) and consider me a sadistic racist. So be it.

*Try googling "MCSO restraint chair" and see if you can come up with anything about the Scott Nortbet(?) case.

<<SNIP>>

Lol, I didn't even see this post when I wrote about people going apopolptic(sp).

ETA: Joe actually wants to be able to hire green card holders, but is unable to. Believe it or not.

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*Try googling "MCSO restraint chair" and see if you can come up with anything about the Scott Nortbet(?) case.

Yeah, things sure have changed.

When Charles Agster arrives at Madison Street Jail, he is confused, as is typical of his condition. He tries to wriggle underneath a bench, and although he is still hogtied, three or more officers and a sheriff's deputy jump on him, punch him, and knee him in the side. One officer grips his face, pressing upward toward his chin. Although he is now unresponsive, the officers drag him, face down, into the Intake area and strap him into a restraint chair. They place a spit-hood over his head, encasing him in darkness. Minutes later, he stops breathing. The original autopsy lists "positional asphyxia due to restraint" as his cause of death.

Follow the link for stories of beatings and death inside Sheriff Joe's jails. Remember, these are jails, where people not yet convicted, or even accused of any crime are kept.

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The idea that Tormund and Ser Scot are liberals is just... amusing in its absurdity.

I really don't see this as a partisan issue. Abuse of power and corruption should be things that are universally condemned, surely?

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I really don't see this as a partisan issue. Abuse of power and corruption should be things that are universally condemned, surely?

Yes.

This is one of my peeves re government and illegal immigration. When the executives are sworn in they usually have an oath to enforce the laws of the land. Yet we see them hamstring the laws or refuse to enforce them time and time again. To me that's corruption as well.

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All law enforcement involves choosing priorities. The police force cannot choose to pursue all criminals with the same fervor. So some things are considered less important than other. Misdemeanors as opposed to felonies, for instance. But more broadly, open container laws are a nice example of this. What if Joe Arpaio decided that the most pressing issue around was the prosecution of every person who sipped a drink from a container in a paper bag? What if he decided that checking whether every person's vehicle passes inspection was a top priority? Or he could dedicate himself to rooting out tax evaders and other white collar criminals.

Choosing to make illegal immigration the focus of his law enforcement is just that: a choice.

But being corrupt, breaking the rule of law and abusing power are, I suppose, things he could do no matter what his priorities are. That problem is really that he considers himself above the law, free to define it however he feels is necessary in order to achieve what needs to be done.

And the idea of living in a country based on the rule of law is precisely that no-one gets to do that.

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Yes.

This is one of my peeves re government and illegal immigration. When the executives are sworn in they usually have an oath to enforce the laws of the land. Yet we see them hamstring the laws or refuse to enforce them time and time again. To me that's corruption as well.

Describe and/or provide the specific portions of the U.S. Codes that are being refused by the federal government to enforce in regard to illegal immigration.

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I fail to see how, in terms of abuses of power, cruel and unusual punishment, beatings, racism, and vigilantism in any way comes close to laxity on illegal immigration.

The fact that some think they are on a equal scale is telling.

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And the idea of living in a country based on the rule of law is precisely that no-one gets to do that.

So we shouldn't even try at rule of law, since it will always be applied haphazardly?

Anywho, the wench is pregnant, we can't squirt the milk up the udder and the die is cast. This topic is boring evento those of us who are passionate about it. Next topic:

What do you think of the hacked climate change emails?

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Fuck that shit. Sadism is refusing to turn on the air conditioner at the jail when it's 120 degrees outside. Sadism is forcing a woman to give birth to a baby while chained down. Sadism is putting someone in a restraint chair until they die. Sadism is cutting off the insulin of diabetic patients until they die. Sadism is prison guards beating a man until his neck and toes are broken, and his intestines rupture, then leaving him in a cell with no medical treatment for 6 days.

Do I need to FUCKING go on?

Racism is pulling into Guadelupe and demanding ID from every brown-skinned person in sight. Racism is fabricating offenses for latino drivers for the excuse of pulling them over and demanding proof of citizenship.

Do not fucking tell me that Sheriff Joe is the only thing standing between Phoenix and the barbarian hordes. We have no more problems than San Antonio or San Diego. Take that shit and sell it to someone who is buying.

Yes, this.

it's possible to take illegal immigration seriously and not be a complete sadistic tyrant.

F' sherriff joe and the horse he rode in on.

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So we shouldn't even try at rule of law, since it will always be applied haphazardly?

Anywho, the wench is pregnant, we can't squirt the milk up the udder and the die is cast. This topic is boring evento those of us who are passionate about it. Next topic:

What do you think of the hacked climate change emails?

Lol, is that you way of running away from the issue when your arguments are debunked?

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Lol, is that you way of running away from the issue when your arguments are debunked?

Sure, if it makes you feel good.

I could google up the relavent federal codes and talk about Janet "51 foor ladder" Napolitano, or describe how Gray Davis killed 187. What's the point though?

Barring some unforseen political disaster, nothing of any consequence will be done to change the de-facto legalization of illegal immigrants. Since the thread appears to be turning into a "You Hate Brown People" Hatefest, let's talk about something else.

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The emails are being discussed in another thread.

And I guess now Swordfish is another bleeding heart liberal, too. God damn it's getting crowded on the left side of the spectrum!

I'm saying precisely that we should try to have rule of law. And that corruption by those who are supposed to be enforcing laws is the most dangerous way of undermining said principle.

I think the real problem is that Joe Arpaio thinks he's a dictator (in the classical Roman sense). And that he doesn't have to follow any rules because he's trying to deal with a situation that is sooo dangerous and messed up that it threatens the very fabric of our society. The problem is that we don't have dictators like that. And a good thing too, I might add.

Also, what the fuck do you mean when you say

Anywho, the wench is pregnant, we can't squirt the milk up the udder and the die is cast. This topic is boring evento those of us who are passionate about it.

?

That once something bad has happened there's no point in evaluating why, or how to stop it from happening again (maybe even stopping the same person from doing it again)?

I guess there was never any point in pursuing Al-Quaeda either. I mean, what's done is done, right? And 9/11 is over, you know?

What the fuck kind of argument is that?

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From this story we see that she has 5 kids and works as a house cleaner and tamale maker.

So? Whats your point? You have something against tamales? She has five kids who are US citizens; as far as I'm concerned she deserves every bit of help she can get from our government. I'm amazed that you could read that article and not be filled with sympathy for the woman and anger at Joe Arpaio.

Also, Tormond and Scot as liberals? Thats hilarious!

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It sounds to me like Sheriff Joe's prisons share a fair number of similarities with concentration camps, especially in regard to the humiliation and endangering conditions.

Well judging from the racism that seems to form the foundation of Arpaio's approach to policing, they basically ARE concentration camps.

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So? Whats your point? You have something against tamales?

No, I love tamales. I love them so much I think we should establish a H1-T visa during the holiday season.

She has five kids who are US citizens; as far as I'm concerned she deserves every bit of help she can get from our government. I'm amazed that you could read that article and not be filled with sympathy for the woman and anger at Joe Arpaio.

And where do you think this "help", i.e. money is going to come from? Queen Creek is probably broke. Maricopa County is definitely broke. The state is beyond broke.

That leaves the federal government to bail us out*. Sweet, I'm all for it. As long as the Chinese are willing to lend us the money. Or we'll tax the rest of the country for our problems.

This lady is a criminal as well. She's driving without a license, has ignored fines and is a shoplifter. While she was too late for the 86 amnesty she probably could have gotten citizenship if she had tried as well. I have no sympathy for her. She was arrested and had to give birth under difficult conditions. I wonder how much she paid for the labor service?

*Arizona will probably be the first state to be bailed out, believe it or not.

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