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World Cup 2010 - The draw is settled


Horza

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Definately, RBPL, but you guys also have some serious demarcation disputes that need favourable resolution to advance the codes chances.

For those who aren't obsessive followers of Oceanian-Asian football: New Zealand (Oceania Confederation member) have a professional team (Wellington Pheonix) in the Australian A-League (an Asian Footbal Confederation competition). It's the only pro-team in the country and the All Whites draw almost half their starting lineup from it. It's also the only professional team that plays in a different country and confederation.

Although the Nix aren't eligible for the Oceanian nor the Asian Champions League, AFC President Mohammad Bin Hammam (Qatari) is not keen on AFC hosting and funding another Confederation's development - an position no doubt bolstered by New Zealand knocking out Bahrain last month.

Consequently he has called for the club's licence not to be renewed after it expires in 2011 - a massive blow should it come to pass. For the moment Football Federation Australia is backing them and Blatter has chipped in, for whatever that's worth but Australia is bidding for the 2015 Asian Cup as a key plank in its campaign for the 2018/22 WC and the status of the Nix may become a bargaining chip.

One answer might be to roll NZ into the AFC. If the All Whites make a decent showing in South Africa and the Nix keep getting the crowds and results the arguments that persuaded AFC to admit Australia - the more competiton the stronger the case for another qualification spot - may prevail but this will re-open the eternal Oceania Question, an administrative headache FIFA probably doesn't want revisited.

Interesting times, and anyone who thinks the All Whites are just happy to be there might need to reconsider - a lot rides on their performance.

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Canada, Russia, Sweden, Finland, Czech Republic, USA, Germany, Slovakia, Belarus. Makes nine that I'm fairly sure about. Could probably toss in Switzerland, Latvia, and Norway.

Not that it changes your point all that much. Just wondering why you said 7.

Edit: Thinking more on it, maybe I would move Belarus down with Norway, Latvia and Switzerland. Still leaves eight though.

If you look at numbers of medalists in the Olympics and World Championships, players in the NHL, and just general preception there is something of an informal Big 7: Slovakia, Czechs, Russia, Finland, Sweden, Canada, and the US. Its not an exceptionally common term, but it exists. Germany,Norway, the Swiss, etc, seem to lack the depth and consistency the Top 7 have (although Slovakia at times seems to threaten to slip off the top rung).

Horza,

I really really can't see OFC keeping a .5 bid without New Zealand. The Confederation would be gutted of its only soccer team that could make a decent account of itself. Giving a full playoff spot to Fiji or the Solomon Islands would be too much.

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I really really can't see OFC keeping a .5 bid without New Zealand. The Confederation would be gutted of its only soccer team that could make a decent account of itself. Giving a full playoff spot to Fiji or the Solomon Islands would be too much.

Its a silly situation anyhow. NZ is practically guaranteed to be 2 matches away from the WC everytime.

Oceania has no good reason to exist as a Federation anymore. There should just be a preliminary round amongst the Oceania teams where the winner joins the Asian qualifiers (the last group stage say, to be generous). NZ football will develop better with some proper games.

Consequently he has called for the club's licence not to be renewed after it expires in 2011 - a massive blow should it come to pass.

Ouch. Typical politician. Bin Hammam nearly lost his job earlier on in the year. Now I know that he should have!

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The future of soccer in New Zealand is, I think, another interesting one. Like the United States the sport here has traditionally been overshadowed by others*, which is the major reason we've never actually achieved anything in the soccer department. New Zealand children are, however, enthusiastic players of the game - at primary school level the sport flourishes. The problem is that once those kids hit secondary school, there is little in the way of infrastructure, so they commonly to switch to rugby in their teenage years.

I believe it's telling that the last NZ National Coach to bring back silverware (OCN 2002) quit his job to become the coach of the club I played for in my childhood, in Norwegian 3rd division.

As for the future of the Oceania confederacy, I think all the members would benefit of OFC disintegrating, and its members either joining AFC or split up between AFC and CONCACAF. (NZ might consider CONCACAF over AFC.)

Canada, Russia, Sweden, Finland, Czech Republic, USA, Germany, Slovakia, Belarus. Makes nine that I'm fairly sure about. Could probably toss in Switzerland, Latvia, and Norway.

Eh, I would hardly count Norway. There's probably more ice halls in Murmansk Oblast than in the entire Norway.

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As for the future of the Oceania confederacy, I think all the members would benefit of OFC disintegrating, and its members either joining AFC or split up between AFC and CONCACAF. (NZ might consider CONCACAF over AFC.)

Just even stranger geographically! Maybe they should join CONMEBOL!

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I believe it's telling that the last NZ National Coach to bring back silverware (OCN 2002) quit his job to become the coach of the club I played for in my childhood, in Norwegian 3rd division.

As for the future of the Oceania confederacy, I think all the members would benefit of OFC disintegrating, and its members either joining AFC or split up between AFC and CONCACAF. (NZ might consider CONCACAF over AFC.)

Eh, I would hardly count Norway. There's probably more ice halls in Murmansk Oblast than in the entire Norway.

Why would we take New Zealand? It doesn't really make sense from a travel standpoint and theres nothing North America really gains by adding New Zealand. I can't see us ever approving the entry of New Zealand. We have enough tiny islands with little long term prospect for development to take any of the other OFC natons either.

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I always find it a little weird that Russia is in Uefa. Peter the Great would be so proud!

And if you find that weird, think a little about the position of Israel or Kazakhstan...

While checking if I hadn't lost my mind and that Israel was still playing with UEFA, I saw that they entered the Oceanian WC qualifiers in the 80's ?! Now that's weird ! That they wouldn't play with their neighbours makes sense politically, but the OFC ? That must have been a logistical nightmare.

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Kazakhstan is technically in the same boat as Russia, Turkey, etc. in that a part of it is in Europe (the Ural Mountains which are usually considered the boundary between Europe and Asia in the north pass though it) while the rest is in Asia. But yes, for some reason nations that could play in either UEFA or AFC overwhelmingly favor UEFA (and so does Israel, but the reason for that is rather obvious). It's kind of strange -- one would think they pick the place where they are most likely to qualify and while UEFA has the most spots, it's absolutely brutal.

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Kazakhstan is technically in the same boat as Russia, Turkey, etc. in that a part of it is in Europe (the Ural Mountains which are usually considered the boundary between Europe and Asia in the north pass though it) while the rest is in Asia.

I always thought that historically at least, Russia and Turkey could lay claim to be part of Europe (them traditionally having taken part in European struggles and wars for many centuries), but Kazakhstan ?

But from a geographical point of view, you're right.

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I think that after Australia moved into the AFC, it's only a matter of time before New Zealand follow, and most likely bring the rest of the OFC with them (although this could cause some logistical nightmares if, say, Lebanon get drawn against Tuvalu).

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And if you find that weird, think a little about the position of Israel or Kazakhstan...

While checking if I hadn't lost my mind and that Israel was still playing with UEFA, I saw that they entered the Oceanian WC qualifiers in the 80's ?! Now that's weird ! That they wouldn't play with their neighbours makes sense politically, but the OFC ? That must have been a logistical nightmare.

I hadn't know that, I was sure we played in Asia before Europe - turns out we played Asia until 1970, then Oceania until 1991, when europe let us in. According to hebrew wikipedia, the only team ever to play in three different leagues. Add to that, the very first game ever played by what would bedome the national Israel team - and its worst loss at 1-7 - was in 1934 against Egypt.

Edit: oh, and in 1958 Israel nearly made it to the world cup becuase Indonesia and Turkey wouldn't play with us, but then FIFA said we had to play with Wales.

And lost. Twice.

Wales

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Edit: oh, and in 1958 Israel nearly made it to the world cup becuase Indonesia and Turkey wouldn't play with us, but then FIFA said we had to play with Wales.

And lost. Twice.

Wales

if it makes you feel any better this is the only time in history that it has been acceptable to lose to wales, they only lost 1-0 in a very close quarter final to brazil and had a unique and legendary player by the name of John Charles who was the only genuine centre forward/centre half in the history of the game. a true giant in every sense. if you have any friends who are italians, ask about how highly rated he is over there.

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I think that after Australia moved into the AFC, it's only a matter of time before New Zealand follow, and most likely bring the rest of the OFC with them (although this could cause some logistical nightmares if, say, Lebanon get drawn against Tuvalu).

Until recentely CONCACAF regionalized the first round or two of qualifiers. AFC already several regional sub-federations. I imagine they could use those.

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Until recentely CONCACAF regionalized the first round or two of qualifiers. AFC already several regional sub-federations. I imagine they could use those.

I think the AFC already used regional qualifiers also previously. But they didn't for this WC apparently, so I could be wrong.

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Edit: oh, and in 1958 Israel nearly made it to the world cup becuase Indonesia and Turkey wouldn't play with us, but then FIFA said we had to play with Wales.

And lost. Twice.

Wales

Are you aware that this is the only time Wales have ever qualified for the World Cup?

They made it to the second round, which means they have a better record than Scotland.

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AFC no longer uses regional quals, but if Oceania joined they'd have to - it'd be ridiculous as none of the teams but NZ, Solomons and New Caledonia would have a chance of getting out of the playoffs.

I think Pod's got the solution - letting the Kiwis into 3rd/4th round would give them the real test they need and would save a lot of logisitcal headaches. Only problem is it effectively wipes out Oceania's .5 and hence there's no way they'll accept it.

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