MMA 2010 I - Pride FC re-watch and other combat sports topics.

[Horus Ex Machina]

I missed the Pride phenomenon the first time around, so I'm going to go back and watch every Pride event, from its beginning to its fateful end. I just started off my watching spree with Pride 1, the very beginning, and it was pretty interesting.

John Dixson vs Kazunari Murakami: Murakami is apparently a Japanese pro wrestler, while Dixson seems to be a kickboxer or something with no ground game. Murakami takes Dixon to the ground and quickly gets an armbar. I think this was probably a gimme matchup to energize the Japanese audience. First bout of Pride is pretty underwhelming.

Gary Goodridge vs Oleg Taktarov: Wow, Goodridge actually looked fit back then, and he gets one of the most brutal KO's I've seen in a while. Taktarov clinches with him and is going for a takedown when he gets tagged in the temple and faceplants, taking two more shots on the ground before the ref stops it. Taktarov leaves unconscious on a stretcher, while Goodridge gets his foot looked at and the camera picks him up gloating, "Sent the fucker out on a stretcher!" Commentators Quadros and Rutten choose not to comment on the remark.

Renzo Gracie vs Akira Shoji: Shoji repeatedly grabs the ropes, even as he's nodding to the ref while being admonished. At one point the ref pulls his right arm out of the ropes, so Shoji hooks his left arm around instead. Apparently Pride has no penalties yet. Later, Renzo has Shoji's back, so Shoji dives through the ropes and sends both of them out of the ring, prompting a start-over with both fighters separated. Boy, the problems with rings literally jumped right out from the very beginning.

Nathan Jones vs Koji Kitao: Jones, the pro wrestler/stuntman faces Kitao, a disgraced sumo wrestler, in Pride's first freak show matchup. It looks like Jones is trying to do an impression of a fighter as he hops around for a bit, then throws some high kicks before the fight falls to the mat and Kitao threatens with a keylock, prompting Jones to quit immediately. I know enough about Pride to expect more of this stuff in the future.

Kimo Leopoldo vs Dan Severn: An incredily tedious fight in which both UFC vets spend almost the entire bout in a terrible kickboxing match. After a rare takedown, a grounded Kimo literally crawls out of the ring in order to force a restart on his feet. Towards the end of the fight, Bas Rutten screams, "Jesus Christ!" in frustration as Kimo squanders a rare opportunity to actually do something. Afterwards, both fighters are showered with boos from the normally reticent Japanese audience. It's really amazing that the sport survived matches like this.

Pride 2 continues to make me amazed that MMA survived its early years. The event features two fights that go 30 minutes or longer with almost no offense at all. These Japanese pro wrestlers don't seem to have any game plan. They don't strike at all, and they don't go for submissions. Their total lack of offense apparently makes them difficult to submit, however, so the fights just drag on and on. The commentators repeatedly suspect that there's some sort of "code of honor" going on that prevents some of the fighters from striking at all. It's quite bizarre.

On the other hand, Sakuraba's first bout in Pride looks amazingly modern. It's quite easy to see why he'll become such a famous fighter in the events ahead. Unfortunately the broadcast doesn't include Mark Kerr's debut, though he won a quick DQ victory over the dirty Branko Cikatić, which makes two fights in a row ended by Cikatić's fouls.

I like the fight by fight analysis Oorag. Definitely keep it up, will be interesting to read your thoughts on it. :)

I saw that the other thread was at 400 posts and figured that we were about ready for a new thread. Thanks seconded to Ooraq for the old Pride recaps. I need to get a legit dvd of those shows. All I have are clips with no entrances. Last show of the year went down today, thanks to everyone who did the fantasy for that one. Bit annoyed by some of the early stoppages, but then again Japanese referees are fairly inconsistent. Sometimes they'll let a guy take a 20 min beating but these days all you have to do is knock a guy down to score a TKO. Sucks.

Streaming for the Dynamite show found here. Peace!

[Analu]

Interesting to read what your take will be on Pride, if you're starting from the very first. It'll probably take you all year or more to get thru all of them. Wait'll you get to when Vov starts to fight in Pride. Think it's right around 3 or 4. That dude was nasty.

I remember when we could only hear the results of the Pride events, and had to wait weeks, even months to get a bootleg copy of the fights. Think I still have some of those fights on VHS tapes somewhere.

Caught a little bit of the Dream card online. It was okay, but nothing like the glory days of Pride. What was up with Aoki? Never seen him flip out like that before.

Not a very good NY card for the UFC, but what're you gonna do with all those injuries? Still looking forward to some fights like Hazelett, Yvel-Dos Santos and the Lauzon fight.

[lessthanluke]

Daley is gonna knock Hazelett out. Come on Semtex!

[Ken Stone]

Interesting to read what your take will be on Pride, if you're starting from the very first. It'll probably take you all year or more to get thru all of them. Wait'll you get to when Vov starts to fight in Pride. Think it's right around 3 or 4. That dude was nasty.

I remember when we could only hear the results of the Pride events, and had to wait weeks, even months to get a bootleg copy of the fights. Think I still have some of those fights on VHS tapes somewhere.

Caught a little bit of the Dream card online. It was okay, but nothing like the glory days of Pride. What was up with Aoki? Never seen him flip out like that before.

Not a very good NY card for the UFC, but what're you gonna do with all those injuries? Still looking forward to some fights like Hazelett, Yvel-Dos Santos and the Lauzon fight.

It's quite amazing just how bad this card really is. The main event should be a nice fight but it is the sort of fight I would consider a good co-main event. The rest of the card looks like it belongs on a UFN or maybe a card in Europe.

[benderschweiz]

Gomi to the UFC. Maybe he'll actually train and we'll have a real contender at 155.

[Horus Ex Machina]

Gomi to the UFC. Maybe he'll actually train and we'll have a real contender at 155.

I'll always be up to see BJ Penn's excellence on display, but Gomi won't cut it anymore. I won't be truly happy until BJ faces Aoki and Alvarez. He'll probably beat them, but they really are both better than anyone he has left to fight in the UFC. I think Alvarez probably KO's Diego Sanchez soundly. His wrestling is vastly superior to Sanchez' and his boxing and power are also way ahead. Aoki would have matchup difficulty with Sanchez' tenacity but I still think he subs him. It's Kenflo that would be a tougher matchup style-wise for both of them.

By the way, here's an interesting article on Aoki's little incident at the Dynamite show on New Years. Lots of comparisons to Lesnar's actions after he pounded out Mir. Similarly classless, Aoki's might have been a bit worse since he had to know that Hirota's arm was broken.

[Ser Barry]

Daley is gonna knock Hazelett out. Come on Semtex!

Word

[Horus Ex Machina]

After all of the crap that Jake Rossen has for years levied on our computers, laptops, and smartphones, all of the vague toughguy references that hardly count as martial arts expertise and all of the calls for mandatory groundfighting, his amateurish assessment of WWE stocks,... this is what the MMA fanbases get worked up about? Really!?? This!!??

This is one of the few articles he's ever written that actually makes sense and is based relatively in fact. So why are the MMA fans finally circling the wagon on this fraud of a sportswriter?? Because DW said so. DW, the Stone Cold Steve Austin of our sport, the bald mastodon of manliness and official representative of "real fighters" finally found a reason to turn on Rossen and thus make the sheep that hear his call, want him fired. And so do I,... just not for this particular article. This article was right on the money.

Look, there's a reason that FIFA is in control of the worlds largest and most powerful sporting enterprise in the world and continue to do so. It's because of the UEFAs, CONMEBOLs, and CONCACAFs; the EPLs, the Serie As, and La Ligas; your English Federations, your USSFs, and FMFs. It's because FIFA chooses to delegate, because they don't have complete control, because ppl in thier own markets run what happens in their own markets. They know their markets, how to sell to them, how to get the best TV deals, how to speak to their own media.

One could say that DW's attempt to get a TV deal for Pride FC was doomed from the moment Zuffa made it apparent that Japanese were no longer in control of the company. Pride's original press release regarding the sale made it appear that the Japanese staff of Pride would remain in place and Zuffa would alow Japanese to run it. Then Zuffa set up a holding company and made it apparent when DW came to the press conference and started to throw around decrees that this would not be the case. DW's on record as calling the Japanese crazy. How can you sell to a market that believes you don't respect them? Zuffa was never going to get a Japanese TV deal. You can't badmouth a whole nation and expect them to kiss you feet afterwards. Granted the Japanese market is failing, but it could have still been saved back then with smart management. If worldwide domination is what you truly want, you have to understand the other cultures that you do business with. Zuffa has never shown that they understand this. Boxing is still far bigger in the European market than MMA and they would do well to delegate to ppl in those countries who know how to sell a product to thier countrymen. Ppl criticize Strikeforce for co-promoting with M1, but a good part of that deal was that M1 would handle the marketing and televising of the product in Eastern Europe and Russia. And that makes sense. They know their market.

Look, I really hate being in the unfortunate position of now defending Jake Rossen bc he is a troll and I hate him and his writing, but it speaks to the sheep nature of the MMA fanbase that they chose this article to post his impotence than the actual bad articles that he's written in the past that DW didn't take issue with. I feel like punching a baby now.

[Analu]

Look, I really hate being in the unfortunate position of now defending Jake Rossen bc he is a troll and I hate him and his writing, but it speaks to the sheep nature of the MMA fanbase that they chose this article to post his impotence than the actual bad articles that he's written in the past that DW didn't take issue with. I feel like punching a baby now.

Maybe you should just stop reading sherdog. Just a suggestion.

Decent night of fights tonight, considering. Lauzon-Stout fight was a freaking war. Rashad looked a little shaky, and I think Rampage must be licking his chops right now after seeing that fight.

Daley looked very good, but IMO, he has no business winning the KO of the night bonus or any bonus for that matter after coming in over. I don't care how much or little it was, if you don't make weight, then you shouldn't qualify for any bonus.

All in all, pretty satisfied with the card for what it was. And even though the LWs went all out and put on some great shows, just like the Thomson-Melendez fight, can't help but think in the back of my mind that BJ would destroy all these cats.

ETA: Yvel looked horrible

[GSP]

Didn't DW explicitly block Anthony Johnson from getting knockout of the night consideration in his fight before Koz, stating that he would have been a shoe in but wasn't eligible because he didn't make weight. I'm not imagining this am I?

[Lord O' Bones]

Wow. If there is a Penn/Aoki match, I'll be rooting for Baby Jay for the first time.

[Horus Ex Machina]

Maybe you should just stop reading sherdog. Just a suggestion.

And miss Jordan Breen or Rios' articles? I don't think so. There are some actual good writers there. Rossen is just one of the few tools there.

[Oorag]

Damn, I really want to see Aoki/Penn now, but I still think Penn is a clear favorite. Mousasi is still looking like a monster, but what a mismatch that was. Looking forward to Overeem/Fedor. Sherdog was speculating Manhoef versus Lawler. That should be fun.

As for the UFC, it's funny how some of the low-star cards end up being some of the best. For all the catastrophes setting this card up, it was a great night of fights. That was an awesome submission by Miller. I thought Joe Lauzon was going to have an easy win. I was also surprised by how ineffective Rashad's ground and pound was. He couldn't keep Thiago down for more than a few seconds. If that had been a Pride fight, I bet they would have given it to Thiago. He's the only one who even got close to a finish.

[Ken Stone]

I just got done watching the New Years Dynamite show and HFS! I don't get why that dude didn't tap. It was pretty clear to everyone watching that his arm was about to break. By hanging in there all he did was fuck his career for about a year and a half.

[benderschweiz]

I'm pumped about Gomi in the UFC, because I think he has a better shot at great fight with Penn than anyone...though it's still not good. Aoki doesn't have the ability to take Penn down and would be knocked out standing within a round or two. Gomi at least has boxing on par with BJ's, which no one else at LW can say. He will beat Florian if he's in shape and has a full camp at ATT.

[Horus Ex Machina]

I just got done watching the New Years Dynamite show and HFS! I don't get why that dude didn't tap. It was pretty clear to everyone watching that his arm was about to break. By hanging in there all he did was fuck his career for about a year and a half.

There was a bit of bad blood involved in this matchup which probably contributed to Hirota's refusal to tap to Aoki, but that doesn't necessarily explain it all. Alot of joint submissions don't necessarily hurt so much as they torque and put pressure on the joints. A fighter running primarily on more adrenaline than good sense might miss the critical point where damage is imminent if they don't feel pain. All I can say is that Hirota is probably super flexible, he thought he could wait it out AND he really wanted to win. Stupid of him, yes, but some fighters are so in the moment that they don't think about the consequences.

I'm pumped about Gomi in the UFC, because I think he has a better shot at great fight with Penn than anyone...though it's still not good. Aoki doesn't have the ability to take Penn down and would be knocked out standing within a round or two. Gomi at least has boxing on par with BJ's, which no one else at LW can say. He will beat Florian if he's in shape and has a full camp at ATT.

One thing that Aoki has going for him is that he knows what he is. He usually doesn't try to box more than is necessary with most opponents. It's alot like Coenan vs Cyborg, he has a greater possibility of getting mercked to hell by BJ, but conversely his style allows a great possibility of pulling the upset submission. Either way, there are few opponents for BJ at LW, but I do think that seeing BJ fight Aoki and Alvarez would be educational and entertaining. Personally I think that Alvarez is the best bet to give BJ a real fight.

As for Gomi, maybe he once had talent, but it was clear awhile back that evolving as a fighter has never been his primary goal. Of Japanese fighters, Aoki's done alot more in that respect as far as training abroad and such. I really think that Gomi might be shot. It will provide DW and the UFC alot of buzz though, and I will be interested enough to watch.

[benderschweiz]

One thing that Aoki has going for him is that he knows what he is. He usually doesn't try to box more than is necessary with most opponents. It's alot like Coenan vs Cyborg, he has a greater possibility of getting mercked to hell by BJ, but conversely his style allows a great possibility of pulling the upset submission. Either way, there are few opponents for BJ at LW, but I do think that seeing BJ fight Aoki and Alvarez would be educational and entertaining. Personally I think that Alvarez is the best bet to give BJ a real fight.

As for Gomi, maybe he once had talent, but it was clear awhile back that evolving as a fighter has never been his primary goal. Of Japanese fighters, Aoki's done alot more in that respect as far as training abroad and such. I really think that Gomi might be shot. It will provide DW and the UFC alot of buzz though, and I will be interested enough to watch.

After watching Diego Sanchez fail to take BJ down, I don't think Aoki will have a chance to catch BJ in a submission. I'm convinced that anyone who wants to beat Penn at 155 will have to be able to give him trouble with boxing or MT and set up take downs off their striking. Agree that an Alvarez fight would be interesting. Frankie Edgar's boxing is much improved as well, but I'm not convinced he has the power to bother BJ.

[Horus Ex Machina]

Don't read anything into Diego's inability to take down BJ. Sanchez may be a wrestler but his takedown game has never been rated highly enough to even be called overrated. He builds his ground game entirely by creating scrambles which implies that your opponent is willing to play into that game. He has limited tricks to play with outside of the energy that he brings into a fight and it was shown against BJ.

Don't get me wrong, Aoki is very limited as well, but his tricks are all ground oriented and he doesn't usually waste time trying to work a game that isn't working for him. It's the reason he's so hated, even in Japan. Think Leites' stalling tactics were obnoxious? Think again bc Aoki takes that to the next level. He could write a book on it.

Like I said before, he'll either get blasted historically or he'll eek out a win. There's no in-between. And to add to that, I only give him about a 10% shot of upsetting BJ but that's a hell of alot more than I ever gave Diego. I could see Diego's holes from a mile away. Aoki's holes are equally glaring, but he usually doesn't play to them as much as Diego likes to. Diego fights like he wants to have fans, Aoki doesn't.

[Oorag]

The last time Penn lost was to a larger fighter who out-wrestled him. So what do you guys think of Maynard's chances, provided he gets past Diaz? Slim, obviously, but how does he stack up to past and potential future contenders?

[benderschweiz]

I don't think Maynard will have a very big size advantage over Penn. His chances are better than Edgar's, Griffin's, and maybe Sherk's, but I think Florian has the best shot of the 155ers in the UFC. Gomi is the most talented in the division if he fights like Bushido 9, but he has always taken some fighters lightly and been out of shape quite a bit recently.