MMA 2010 I - Pride FC re-watch and other combat sports topics.

[Oorag]

I hope Penn doesn't vacate his title. He should be doing what Silva is doing: vacationing in the middle waters of the next division while waiting for contenders to emerge. I don't think anyone wants to see another Penn/GSP, so Penn permanently at WW has no future.

[Horus Ex Machina]

Cheers Horus.

Stupid UK coverage stopped towards the end of the first round of the main event. Still, I'll take that on DVR over watching any event live in the US. How the fuck do you put up with all the adverts? It is insane.

Yeah, with my DVR I pretty much give that the Ooraq treatment. But instead of an hour I usually only give it 20-30 minutes rather than a whole hour.

[Oorag]

For Fight Nights, you also have to take into account the interviews with the would-be stars of whatever new show they're plugging this month, and other assorted nonsense to fast-forward.

[Ser Barry]

The point being that BJ becomes the best by beating all of those guys. You didn't put the Pats straight into the Superbowl for the past few years did you? Ed Moses wasn't handed the hurdles gold medal and asked to have a go at Pole Vault. If BJ is so good then let him fight them all and beat them, it is compelling to me in the level of fighting BJ can achieve. Sport doesn't have to be competitive to be compelling. Did you watch Usain Bolt at the WC?

[Analu]

I hope Penn doesn't vacate his title. He should be doing what Silva is doing: vacationing in the middle waters of the next division while waiting for contenders to emerge.

I think Dana's said that BJ would have to vacate the title if he wants to move up.

I don't think anyone wants to see another Penn/GSP, so Penn permanently at WW has no future.

I want to see it. First fight was close. Second had some controversy, whether people want to believe the greasing allegations or not.

Personally, I'd love to see BJ stay at lightweight and just wreck some fools for the next few years, but I think he's one lightweight fight away from officially cleaning out the division. Unless the UFC brings in Alvarez or Aoki, and I still think BJ would smash them. Both would be compelling fights, though.

If BJ and Marinovich can come up with a good plan for him to move up without sacrificing stamina, speed, etc, then I'm all for it. But BJ's not a big guy at all, and doesn't really have the frame to put on pounds, like GSP. But I'd say Koscheck or Alves would be much more exciting fights to see than anyone else at 155 for BJ.

Looks like it's BJ and Edgar for UFC 112. That card is looking stacked as hell: Anderson vs Belfort, BJ vs Edgar, Hughes vs Renzo. That rivals UFC 100. To me, it even surpasses it, since it has Anderson and BJ on the card. Can't wait.

[Oorag]

I think Dana's said that BJ would have to vacate the title if he wants to move up.

Well that's lame. Why the double standard with Anderson Silva? It's not like they have to worry about clear title challengers chomping at the bit to get a shot, like they did with Florian. Edgar got the shot by default. Plus, vacating the title would be pointless. As long as Penn is around, we'd all know who the real LW champ is. Whoever gets the belt would be an interim champ in all but name. Why play that game?

Personally, I'd love to see BJ stay at lightweight and just wreck some fools for the next few years, but I think he's one lightweight fight away from officially cleaning out the division. Unless the UFC brings in Alvarez or Aoki, and I still think BJ would smash them. Both would be compelling fights, though.

Yeah, I hope the lack of challengers will put pressure on the UFC to open their pocketbook for some outside talent. They've already got their own commentators calling out Aoki. The UFC only has five fighters in Sherdog's top ten. Get some new blood in there.

[Oorag]

Well, of course now that I'm starting to go through Pride, Zuffa finally decides to actually start airing its archives. Oh well. At least I get to see each full event in context. Pride 5 time! This event only has six fights. It's the first Pride event to have judges. Two 10-minute rounds, then a decision. It's also the first event to feature stand-ups. It also might be the first event to feature a significant amount of advertising on the ring floor.

This is the Pride debut of the Inoue brothers, whom I didn't realize were American-born. Egan faces Toyonaga, a wrestler who actually looked pretty well-rounded in his previous appearance. This is the fight where someone finally starts to really unload with punches. Given the Japanese wrestlers' apparent lack of interest in striking, I've been wondering what would happen if a decent striker fully committed to a sustained barrage. It turns out pretty well. At the mid-point of the round, Egan suddenly unloads a ruthless flurry of punches and and fells the overwhelmed Toyonaga. I guess this is the death knell of the fabled "gentleman's agreement" about limited striking.

Brother Enson stars in the closest thing to a freak-show matchup for the night in facing "Barbarian" Nishida, a 300 lb. karate stylist wearing aikido pants. Nishida doesn't belong in the ring. He folds with a single glancing punch and then immediately surrenders his neck. Commentators repeatedly refer to the highlight reel for both fighters, which isn't shown on the broadcast for this bout. This sucks because I really wonder what guys like Nishida did to get their invitation.

Igor Vovchanchyn returns and gets a clear but unexciting decision victory over Pride regular Akira Shoji. I haven't really been wowed by this guy yet, but he's winning fights.

The last two bouts are crazy. First up, Sakuraba faces another UFC vet in Vitor Belfort. Belfort opens up with big punches early, and I'm expecting a repeat of the first fight. Sakuraba, however, defends well and is smart enough to clinch when he's getting hit. He takes Belfort down, and then, for about 75% of the remaining match, stands over Belfort and kicks him in the legs. Belfort's thighs turn into raw tuna. When he's on the feet, he's got no answer for Sakuraba's unusual strikes, and his legs are so beat that he constantly flops to the floor, only to get more kicks to the thighs. It's total domination, and by the end, Sakuraba is doing flying stomps on Belfort just to mix things up.

The last match is ridiculous. Mark Coleman, former UFC HW champ, faces Nobuhiko Takada, the apparently popular pro wrestler who faced Rickson Gracie twice and put up no offense whatsoever. I don't think Takada's done anything to deserve this matchup. Coleman easily takes him down and does some ground-and-pound, but Takada, in typical Japanese pro wrestler style, simply hangs on. At the end of the round, Coleman is sinking in a keylock, but Takada is saved by the bell. In the second, Coleman suddenly looks gassed to me, but then shoots in for a perfect double-leg right into side control. Then his brain apparently melts. He jumps into Takada's guard, and after about a minute of grappling there, gets heel hooked. Whhuuuut?

As much as Pride veterans have become known for their mixed success in the modern UFC, I guess we (I) didn't realize how badly these UFC champs faired when they first transitioned into Pride.

[Ken Stone]

The last match is ridiculous. Mark Coleman, former UFC HW champ, faces Nobuhiko Takada, the apparently popular pro wrestler who faced Rickson Gracie twice and put up no offense whatsoever. I don't think Takada's done anything to deserve this matchup. Coleman easily takes him down and does some ground-and-pound, but Takada, in typical Japanese pro wrestler style, simply hangs on. At the end of the round, Coleman is sinking in a keylock, but Takada is saved by the bell. In the second, Coleman suddenly looks gassed to me, but then shoots in for a perfect double-leg right into side control. Then his brain apparently melts. He jumps into Takada's guard, and after about a minute of grappling there, gets heel hooked. Whhuuuut?

As much as Pride veterans have become known for their mixed success in the modern UFC, I guess we (I) didn't realize how badly these UFC champs faired when they first transitioned into Pride.

I think this is the match that there is a lot of speculation was thrown by Coleman. Not sure if it was ever proven.

[Oorag]

I think this is the match that there is a lot of speculation was thrown by Coleman. Not sure if it was ever proven.

Interesting. If it was a fix, it was a weird one. Takada got a yellow card in the first round for continuously holding the ropes to fight Coleman's takedown. Not sure why he would do that if he knew he was going to win. And I can't imagine why you would fix a fight for Takada without telling him, given his pro wrestler background and general lack of offense. Also, if Coleman was deliberately trying to look good by almost getting the keylock in before the bell, he timed himself perfectly. And I recall at least one other fighter passing into an opponent's guard. I think it was Guida.

On the other hand, while my submission knowledge is pretty slim, it did look a little like maybe Coleman was deliberately putting his leg in danger while standing over Takada. Also, the fight was Coleman's fourth loss in a row. While I'm sure as a competitor it would have stung him to keep losing, he might have been in money trouble at the time.

[Analu]

Well that's lame. Why the double standard with Anderson Silva? It's not like they have to worry about clear title challengers chomping at the bit to get a shot, like they did with Florian. Edgar got the shot by default. Plus, vacating the title would be pointless. As long as Penn is around, we'd all know who the real LW champ is. Whoever gets the belt would be an interim champ in all but name. Why play that game?

I think at the time Dana said it, it was right after 94 and he wasn't too happy with the holdup and there were a lot of LW challengers at the time. Now that BJ's toyed with Florian and Diego, maybe his tune has changed.

Also, Anderson was facing two game fighters that liked to brawl, which fit right into his style. BJ would probably be going up to face the cream of the WW crop in Kos, Alves, Fitch, etc. And Anderson's natural weight was already 210-220, I think, so it made sense for him to fight at LHW. Penn really can't go above 167+ without turning into a total fatty.

Igor Vovchanchyn returns and gets a clear but unexciting decision victory over Pride regular Akira Shoji. I haven't really been wowed by this guy yet, but he's winning fights.

Hmmm. I guess my memory's spotty then, because I thought Vov came right into Pride and just lit it up. Must be in his later Pride fights. His fight against Enson was insane.

As for Takada-Coleman, I think that's the one where Coleman later stated in an interview that he had to put food on the table for his family or something, which implied that it was a work. Takada was a joke anyways.

[Horus Ex Machina]

Maybe Shinzo Machida can fight BJ. One of the new stories out is that Lyoto's older brother is looking to resume his MMA career as a lightweight. Shinzo is 1-1; he won his first fight by TKO and lost his second to a guillotine choke. He wants to sign either with the UFC or WEC. Here's an article on his intentions as well as a video of his first fight victory over a Mongkol-sporting Brazilian Muay Thai practitioner.

[Oorag]

It will be very interesting to see how Chinzo does in MMA, since he's supposedly a better pure karate fighter than Lyoto. It'll probably give us a little more insight into how much of Lyoto's success is specifically due to his Machida Karate.

As an aside, I recently saw a commercial for a cartoon on comedy central in which a super spy scoffs, "Karate?!? The Dane Cook of martial arts?" I laughed.

[Horus Ex Machina]

It will be very interesting to see how Chinzo does in MMA, since he's supposedly a better pure karate fighter than Lyoto. It'll probably give us a little more insight into how much of Lyoto's success is specifically due to his Machida Karate.

As an aside, I recently saw a commercial for a cartoon on comedy central in which a super spy scoffs, "Karate?!? The Dane Cook of martial arts?" I laughed.

I kind of scoff at the "MMA pundits" who decided around 7 years ago to make Karate and other TMAs their whipping boy. The way I see it, when I say "Karate is back" what I mean is that the idea that Karate "won't work in MMA" is dead. It doesn't mean that Karate is the end-all-be-all of standup fighting, but it shouldn't now be taboo to MMA literacy to learn it either. There are some sound techniques that still apply as well as what the training does to your ability to learn other martial arts and skills.

[Oorag]

Pride 6!

The rules now accomodate a possible 5-minute tiebreaker round should the first two rounds result in a draw. We see a lot of it. The first four fights all result in a draw and go to a decision in the tiebreaker round.

Egan Inoue vs Carl Greco/Malenko - This fight is the very definition of lay-and-pray. Malenko (who is called Carl Greco by Sherdog) doesn't have the grappling to pass Inoue's guard, and Inoue doesn't have the wrestling to sweep or get to his feet. Ultimately Malenko lays on Inoue and does just enough to eek out a default decision. A real snoozer.

Daijiro Matsui vs Carlos Newton - This was an exciting match. Matsui shows much more offence in this fight than his other two, which were both draws. Carlos Newton looks good. Whatever happened to this guy? I guess I'll have to stay tuned and find out.

Carlos Barreto vs Igor Vovchanchyn - Yikes, another tedious match. Carlos wants to grapple and Igor wants to stand, and neither does much of anything. Igor is about six inches shorter, so he's got to box from the outside while Carlos makes almost no attempt to shoot in. Carlos is given a warning for stalling. The commentators note that he never once throws a right hand. Even when Carlos gets it to the ground, he doesn't do much there. In the tiebreaker round, Carlos takes Igor down and is more active, but Igor gets the win, probably because the judges were just disgusted by Carlos's passive style.

Guy Mezger vs Akira Shoji - Mezger makes his Pride debut wearing Pancrase shinguards, which make the commentators scratch their heads. He has the clear striking advantage, but he seems strangely interested in taking it to the mat. Shoji uses his superior grappling to outwork Mezger en route to a tiebreaker decision. A good fight, but I think Mezger could have won it if he'd fought smarter.

Gary Goodridge vs Naoya Ogawa - This is a crazy fight. Ogawa is a very large silver medalist in judo who showed up in the last event at ringside. In the first minute of the fight, it looks like a freakshow matchup, with Goodridge teeing off on Ogawa, who just bends forward at the waist, covering up with no attempt to clinch. Then he gets Goodridge on the ground, and it's all him. At one point, Goodridge sweeps and insanely goes for a leg lock instead of just standing up. After about 20 straight kimura attempts, Ogawa finally sinks one in. They must like kimuras in judo.

Ebenezer Fontes Braga vs Kazushi Sakuraba - Braga gets the prize for the coolest name in Pride so far. Unfortunately, he's facing Sakuraba, who might as well be literally on fire at this point. Still, Braga is game, and it's a pretty exciting fight. Late in the first round, Sakuraba starts to sink in an armbar, but Braga's arm is crooked. Sakuraba seems to modify it into some sort of weird shoulder crank or something and coaxes a tapout. Wild. I really have no idea why he's not headlining these things by now.

Mark Kerr vs Nobuhiko Takada - Takada, the apparent recipient of a dive courtesy of a down-on-his-luck Coleman now faces the undefeated Kerr, Coleman's teammate, for a little payback. Kerr ain't foolin' around. Takada looks like he's improving his game, but Kerr makes short work out of him and quickly puts him in a painful-looking kimura. The commentators point out that this is the first fight that didn't end strangely for Kerr. His previous fights ended by DQ, a fair but vigorously disputed stoppage, and an opponent fleeing from the ring.

Aside from the MMA, there's a kyokushin karate match between some guy and the only guy to lose to Akebono. Kyokushin karate is about 90% composed of two people standing in front of each other and trading body blows. It's a sport designed for people who hate torsos. The match is declared a draw, which is good because I have no idea how you'd even score something like this. Apart from that, Frank Shamrock becomes the second UFC champion to step into the Pride ring and announce that he wants to fight in Pride. The UFC must have really been sucking at this time for two of their champs to publicly announce how much they want to leave the organization. Even still, neither Bas Rutten nor Shamrock ever fought in Pride.

[Oorag]

Pride 7 is pretty weird.

Daijiro Matsui vs Bob Schrijber: This is a pretty exciting grappler-versus-striker bout. Matsui literally throws Schrijber out of the ring at one point. Otherwise, the match is dominated by the bizarre antics of "Dirty" Bob, including the most flagrant and mind-boggling foul I've ever seen: after the referee pauses the match and starts to fix Matsui's glove, Schrijber strolls up and clocks Matsui in the face. It's like he suddenly went feral or something. At the end of the fight, Schrijber manages to break three separate rules with a single strike: delivering an axe kick to the back of a prone Matsui's head after the bell. The referee is so pissed off that he actually punches Schrijber. It's his third foul, and the match is ruled a DQ. I only know Dirty Bob as the coach of my favorite HW up-and-comer, Stefan Struve. I have no idea how someone like him gets to become a coach.

Carl Greco vs Wanderlei Silva: "Vanderlei" makes his Pride debut against lay-and-pray specialist Carl Greco/Malenko. Again, Malenko gets the takedowns but can't do anything with them. Silva is better on the feet of course, but his interest in clinching for knee strikes gets him in trouble. He's also got better BJJ, using it to sweep and occasionally go for submissions. Ultimately it's an uneventful decision victory for Silva. The Axe Murderer certainly didn't explode out of the gate.

Branko Cikatic vs Maurice Smith: Branko is still collecting fouls for holding the ropes, but looks like a choirboy compared to Dirty Bob. The clash of kickboxers is decided by Smith's grappling, because Smith actually has some. Smith eventually gets his forearm on Branko's throat for all of a split second and Branko taps, seemingly out of simple frustration. I hope this is the last we see of this guy.

Larry Parker vs Akira Shoji: Shoji is a warrior, he's getting pretty well-rounded, and he's always fighting bigger guys. I really should like Shoji more, but his fights are always the same. Since his armbar victory in Pride 1, he just can't finish. He fights long, drawn-out battles, but the fact that you know that they're going to a decision kind of robs them of drama for me. Oh well. Shoji gets another tie-breaker decision, robbing Larry Parker of the perfect post-fight victory speech: "Fighting for you is my JOB!" Of course, the joke would be lost to everyone outside of the LA area.

Anthony Macias vs Kazushi Sakuraba: Another classic performance by Sakuraba. Whenever he's standing in Macias's guard, the fight almost turns into a comedy routine. What's Sakuraba going to do next? Flying stomp? Cartwheel? Nope! How about a sliding side-kick straight out of a video game! Later, he grabs Macias's foot and runs in a circle, apparently trying to get Macias dizzy. The crowd eats it up, and even Macias is laughing as he waits for Sakuraba to unveil his next trick. Ultimately Sakuraba finishes it with a standard armbar.

Mark Kerr vs Igor Vovchanchyn: I think this is the closest thing to a "championship match" that Pride has yet to put on. Both Igor and Kerr have developed some momentum with several consecutive wins. It's another classic striker versus grappler matchup. Igor lands some big bombs on the feet, but Kerr has a good chin. Igor's got some good TDD too, but Kerr can't be denied. On the mat, Kerr's ground-and-pound is less than active. He doesn't do much more than hold on. Eventually after a scramble, Igor sprawls on top of Kerr and delivers two clearly illegal knees to the top of Kerr's head. The referee slaps his knee in the process to telling him not to do that, but it's too late, Kerr is knocked unconcious. For some bizarre reason, Igor is then declared the winner. Kerr comes around and protests, but no one is listening. The commentators scratch their heads as the broadcast ends. Apparently the victory was overturned to a NC after the fact.

[Oorag]

Roommate watching Keeping Up with the Kardashians means two Pride events in one day! Pride 8 does its damndest to outweird some of the other recent offerings.

Daijiro Matsui vs Wanderlei Silva : This looks more like the Wanderlei Silva I've been expecting. Even though it goes to a decision, Silva is merciless with knee strikes and has great takedown defence. Matsui has nothing to offer but a few fleeting moments in top control. Otherwise it's all Silva. Can't wait to see him start finishing people.

Fabiano Iha vs Frank Trigg: Wow, Trigg makes a big statement in his one and only Pride fight. He batters Iha on the feet, tosses him around like a ragdoll, and finishes with a brutal flurry. I don't remember Trigg being much of a standup guy, but he shows some chops here. I can't imagine why Pride didn't ask him back. He fought in some other Japanese shows before going back to America.

Allan Goes vs Carl Malenko: Goes faces easily my least favorite fighter in Pride so far, Carl Malenko/Greco. This time, the wrestler gets out-wrestled, and Goes shows that actually knowing how to finish a fight is useful. He gets an arm-triangle choke from inside Malenko's half-guard.

Mark Coleman vs Ricardo Morais: I remember Morais from his fleeting appearance in Smashing Machine. He looks like Nikolai Valuev with a swimmer's build. The guy is a specimen, but predictably, all that height and mass don't help him much against Coleman, who uses his wrestling to control him en route to a fairly plodding decision.

Tom Erikson vs Gary Goodridge: Big Daddy fights someone bigger and heavier than him. The fight starts like a street brawl, and Erikson actually gets the better of it. From there, it's almost all Erikson ground-and-pounding Goodridge, who can only taunt him. The more I see of Goodridge, the more he reminds me of a smaller Bob Sapp.

Francisco Bueno vs Igor Vovchanchyn: This is probably the fight that made Igor "explode." It's got to be tied for most brutal KO on Pride so far, with Goodridge-Taktarov coming about even. Igor blasts Bueno on the chin and tags him three more times on the way down as Bueno faceplants. Nasty work. To be fair to Goodridge, Bueno does leave the ring under his own power.

Renzo Gracie vs Alexander Otsuka: The Gracies are back! Big dog Renzo faces Otsuka, who humorously has "Diet Butcher" printed on his pink trunks. The commentators make wild guesses about its meaning, but google tells me it's a Japanese clothes designer. Those wacky Japanese! Otskuka is another pro wrestler. He performs as well as can be expected: simply surviving against a superior grappler. Renzo takes the decision.

Royler Gracie vs Kazushi Sakuraba: The Gracies take a crack at Sakuraba, who has been knocking down their countrymen left and right. For some reason, they insist that this fight be under different rules: 15-minute rounds and no judges. They've insisted on similar rules changes before. The commentators gripe about the preferential treatment, and I'm inclined to agree. Anyway, the fight is an absolute carnival. Royler has nothing for Sakurana standing, so he spends most of the fight crab-walking around the ring trying to goad Sakuraba into grappling with him. Sakuraba is way too smart for that. Instead, he repeats his fight with Belfort by teeing off on Royler's legs. They're black and blue by the end of the first round. Royler is constantly motioning for Sakuraba to come down, but Sakuraba simply waves him to come up. At one point, Royler reaches up a hand, as if saying, "You win! Help me up and we'll fight on the feet." Sakuraba, with a pricelessly deadpan expression, slowly reaches his own hand out, as if to say, "Suuuure. Here's my hand coming out..." For about thirty seconds he keeps his hand a few inches away from Royler's and continues to hack in with kicks until Royler gives up on the ruse.

In the second round, Royler is getting desperate, and is literally begging Sakuraba in English to come to the ground. Occasionally, Sakuraba acts like he's just about to go down... and then delivers another kick. Royler is pouting and rolling his eyes in disgust whenever Sakuraba kicks him. At one point, Stephen Quadros says what we're all thinking, "You have to make the other guy fight your fight, not ask him." Suddenly, Royler actually manages to pull Sakuraba on top of him, but in a matter of seconds, it's Sakuraba who's working a kimura. Sakuraba isn't in a position to finish it, but Royler also can't escape. They seem to be at an impasse when suddenly the referee stops the fight and declares Sakuraba the winner by submission. It's a ridiculously bogus stoppage. Royler and Rickson protest for a few moments, and then just settle into amused disbelief. I couldn't think of a weirder ending for this fight.

The Gracies at this time were still claiming that they'd never been defeated in a no-holds-barred match. This is apparently the first time, if Pride truly counts as no-holds-barred, and if you think the stoppage should stand. Bas Rutten delcares, "Well... now Rickson has to fight Sakuraba." Rickson fought one more Japanese pro wrestler and then decided his schedule was booked solid for the indefinite future.

[GSP]

Keep em comin Oorag. That's some entertaining stuff!

[benderschweiz]

Pretty sure Igor vs. Enson will be on the next card. That was the first MMA fight I watched.

[Oorag]

Pretty sure Igor vs. Enson will be on the next card. That was the first MMA fight I watched.

Cool. My first was Royce Gracie vs Ron van Clief, first bout of UFC 4, which I rented from my local video store after seeing a bunch of the commercials.

[Horus Ex Machina]

When ppl compare MMA to boxing, one of the things that gets brought up is the lack of urbanization of the sport. This is typically not a sport that anything less than gym dues will get you in the door. You don't hear too many stories of hard-luck youths sleeping on mats in a boxing gym to get themselves off the streets or a trainer taking kids under their wing and teaching them BJJ etc. You have a few like Roger Huerta, but those are few and far between.

But a few guys like Nick Diaz along with Ken and Frank Shamrock were among the lucky Northern California kids to have been discovered, taken under a wing, and taught a craft that has given them lives that didn't end up with them dead or in jail.

RIP Bob Shamrock.