Euro 2012 Qualifying

[Renasko]

Ireland's team:

GK- Shay Given (34, will be 36 in 2012) (Man City) (0/5 games this year)

DR- John O'Shea (29, will be 31 in 2012) (Man Utd) (4/4 games this year)

DL- Kevin Kilbane (33, will be 35 in 2012) (Hull) (4/5 games)

DC- Sean St. Ledger (25, will be 27) (Preston) (3/6 games)

DC- Richard Dunne (30, will be 32) (Aston Villa) (5/5 games)

MR- Liam Lawrence (28, will be 30) (Portsmouth) (0/4 games)

ML- Aiden McGeady (24, will be 26) (Spartak Moscow) (0 games)

MC- Glenn Whelan (26, will be 28) (Stoke) (4/4 games)

MC- Paul Green (27, will be 29) (Derby) (4/5 games)

ST- Kevin Doyle (26, will be 28) (Wolves) (3/4 games)

ST- Robbie Keane (30, will be 31) (Spurs) (2/5 games, both subs)

I'm just saying.....I know there are players missing, but I think we should be moving on, and bringing a few more youngsters into the team.

------------------Doyle----Keane---------------------

--------------------------------------------------------

Duff-----------McCarthy----Whelan-----------Fahey

--------------------------------------------------------

Cunningham-----O'Shea-----Dunne-----------Coleman

-------------------------Given--------------------------

Duff is injured, mate. I think McCarthy and Fahey are too. Not as certain about Fahey. McGeady has played for Spartak, I think, but I'd definitely not expect him to play the full game as he missed nearly all of pre-season for us. No idea why Lawrence is even the squad. He threw away his career by allowing Stoke to push him down south.

Who are we missing, anyway? Andy Reid, Stephen Reid, Stephen Ireland, Stephen Kelly, Marc Wilson, Stephen Ward...?

I'd like to see Cilian Sheridan play. Perhaps not from the start. I hope Trap decides to keep Doyle on the entire game, for a change, and subs Robbie off.

[Fireball07]

I know Duff is injured, and McCarthy too, but I'm just saying that's what we should be moving towards for our strongest line-up.

Stephen Hunt's out aswell, if you count Stephen Reid (he's retired), why not Stephen Carr and Stevie Finnan aswell...

Stephen Kelly is in the squad, and personally, I'd have him ahead of Kilbane/St. Ledger, shifting O'Shea into whatever position. Kevin Foley aswell, I'd like to see him start.

Dunno what the story with Ward is, he's always looked good, but Joey O'Brien is expected to make a big push for a Bolton place when he gets back from injury, so hopefully he can try and get in the Irish team too.

When David Meyler is back from injury, he has to be a candidate, looked a lot better than Whelan when he played last season.

[Renasko]

If you count Stephen Reid (he's retired), why not Stephen Carr and Stevie Finnan aswell...

I know Reid has retired. Despite his injury trouble's, I was still surprised. He has enough to offer the Irish side for a couple more year's, if he gets games under his belt and still looks decent. Carr and Finnan, on the other hand, are not quite there. I'd take either over McShane, though.

[Renasko]

This Ireland game is embarrassing. Players aren't even fit, let alone skilful enough to make it an entertaining match. I'm aware it's a quite hot place, but the temperature has dropped by 50%. It's a good time to be playing them. Unfortunate, though it may be, that we have players like Lawrence, McGeady and Keane without much match fitness, surely we could bring in some other players to cover?

Dull as the game is, I've been thinking about the kind of team I'd like to see in the future. Not going to ever happen, but:

Given

Foley Dunne O'Dea Kelly

O'Shea

McCarthy Ireland

McGeady Duff

Keane

Goals in the second half, please. Bring on Gibson for Green and Keogh (or anyone) on for Lawrence.

[Fireball07]

Half-time. 0-0. Hmmm....

I was pleasantly surprised with that performance. I know it's only Armenia, but they are not a bad side, and we are playing pretty well.

Given's been solid, Armenia have had a couple of good shots, one real fizzing one that went over the bar, but he comfortably saved any of the others.

In defence, Dunne is once again fantastic, very composed, brilliant in the air, wins everything. John O'Shea has been good aswell, St. Ledger hasn't made a mistake. Kilbane...looks to be too slow, keeps getting burned on the outside, but going forward he's doing well, uses the ball well. Plus he should have had a penalty, it was a clear push in the box.

Liam Lawrence has been our best player, I think, very surprised too, didn't think he was that good. Causing lots of problems, drawing fouls, delivering some nice passes. Good performance...McGeady started poorly, but had one great run where he beat a man and cut inside. That's what you want him to do, needs to it more often. Green...not impressive, misplacing passes and his anticipation is not good. Needs to up the intensity and be a bit more confident. Nearly cost us a goal, though. I wouldn't mind seeing Fahey come on. Whelan's been okay, bit more intensity, pushing up and closing down, that's what you want him to do, and went close enough with a snap-shot.

Doyle has been good, as he always is...I really think he is a wonderful player. Again, another player who is getting fouled all the time. Their centre-back should be on a yellow by now, tbh. Robbie...started excellently, went really close, but faded out a bit, then scored a goal, which has ruled offside and then was definitely fouled in the box. Good performance from him.

[Renasko]

Armenia are unrepentant in their tackling. Something we should have expected. Still, McGeady near had his ankle broke in the first half and the ref still hasn't taken a card out.

I was surprised you singled out Lawrence's performance so strongly, Fireball. He looks tired to me. He's a useful enough player, though.

[Fireball07]

This Ireland game is embarrassing. Players aren't even fit, let alone skilful enough to make it an entertaining match. I'm aware it's a quite hot place, but the temperature has dropped by 50%. It's a good time to be playing them. Unfortunate, though it may be, that we have players like Lawrence, McGeady and Keane without much match fitness, surely we could bring in some other players to cover?

Dull as the game is, I've been thinking about the kind of team I'd like to see in the future. Not going to ever happen, but:

Given

Foley Dunne O'Dea Kelly

O'Shea

McCarthy Ireland

McGeady Duff

Keane

Goals in the second half, please. Bring on Gibson for Green and Keogh (or anyone) on for Lawrence.

Don't agree with that team, simply because Doyle's not there. Wonderful player.

As for Lawrence, he goes down easily, which I don't like to see, but he's looked more lively than anyone, I thought. At least he's trying to move forward. McGeady looks a little rusty, but I'm hoping he'll get better.

[Black Wizard]

Because Ireland is tropical of course. :P

I think Arshavin has started the season well. He wasn't all that great last season but I think that was down to some injuries so not taking part in the World Cup probably helped him.

Scotland's staring XI is:

McGregor

Hutton-Weir-McManus-Whittaker

McCulloch

Naismith-Brown-Fletcher-Robson

Miller

It's a reasonably good team that has a decent chance of doing the job against Lithuania, but my main concern is that we have two kamikaze full-backs. Alan Hutton and Steven Whittaker are good but I'm a little concerned about them away from home against potentially tough opposition. I'd have preffered Kirk Broadfoot to play at right-back in a match like this although I think he might have an injury.

Lee McCulloch is a fairly good holding-midfielder, although mainly in a destructive sense - which may be useful away from home. Paul Hartley is better in that roll and better at passing than Darren Fletcher, at least for Scotland anyway. I'm glad to see Stephen McManus back even though Craig Levein seems not to be his biggest admirer, however I think Christophe Berra will be starting again against Litchenstein.

[Fireball07]

The bazillion-year-old David Weir will be playing... :)

Never understood McCulloch as a DM, was a really weird move, imo. Kenny Miller as a lone striker, does that work?

[The Iceman of the North]

Damn, the Irish are lucky tonight.

[Fireball07]

Damn, the Irish are lucky tonight.

Well, we were lucky there, very very very lucky. They're looking much better now, lots of pace going forward. We need a goal quick.

Their crowd is getting behind them, intimidating now.

We need a goal right now.

[Renasko]

Fireball, good though Doyle is, the game has moved beyond the need for two forwards in the formation.

Paul Hartley is better in that roll and better at passing than Darren Fletcher, at least for Scotland anyway.

Hartley is only good for keeping it 'simple'. He's a decent short passer. Fletcher is a stronger passer in general. His range causes him to perhaps be down a few short of Hartley, but he's worth so much more.

All in all, that's probably a stronger team you have than we do. Blegh.

Edit: What a miss. This could be a banana-skin. How low.

[Fireball07]

Doyle is better than Keane. And his ability at holding up the ball ins invaluable, and he has pace and can finish too.

Keane just hit the post.... :o

[Fireball07]

Lucky, lucky, lucky.

[Fireball07]

FAHEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HAHA, YES!

[The Iceman of the North]

I did not see the first half, but if Ireland continue with defence like this, getting third in the group ought to be considered an achievement. Even if they've just taken the lead in Armenia, not all teams in this group are as crap attackers as Armenia.

[Black Wizard]

The bazillion-year-old David Weir will be playing... :)

Never understood McCulloch as a DM, was a really weird move, imo. Kenny Miller as a lone striker, does that work?

Miller puts a lot of pressure on defenders and if he puts his mind to it he can score. A few years ago the Italians said that Kenny Miller was horrible the play against because he just ran at them all the time, and he has decent pace. He's a better player under Walter Smith but he can produce the goods, a bit like James McFadden under Alex McLeish.

Don't let David Weir's ages fool you: he played every minute of every game in all four competitions that Rangers played in last season.

Damn, the Irish are lucky tonight.

Ever heard of the Luck of the Irish?

[Renasko]

Blimey, can it all end now?

[Fireball07]

I'm satisfied. For the first game in a place like Armenia, 3 points is all you can ask for. It wasn't a bad performance, in fact it was much better than the games against Georgia, Cyprus and Montenegro last year.

Green was poor, no doubt about that, but Given, O'Shea and Dunne were excellent, Lawrence was superb, very creative, though tired towards the end. Keane played well, Doyle was immense, he has a thankless task but outjumps people a head taller than him.

Fahey should start in the centre, because he is not a winger, and he's a skilful player. Loved watching him when he played for St. Pats.

Good win, bring on Andorra.

[mormont]

The bazillion-year-old David Weir will be playing... :)

The thing about Weir is that he's phenomenally fit, and he started his pro career late. (IIRC he was 24.) So he doesn't have the niggling wear-and-tear injuries many players accumulate, despite being 40 now.

Never understood McCulloch as a DM, was a really weird move, imo.

Then you'd probably have freaked out at him being deployed as a central defender last year. :lol: But it works. Even as a forward, his strength (as Kevin Keegan would have put it) was his strength. And his workrate, of course.

Kenny Miller as a lone striker, does that work?

For a certain definition of 'work': the literal one. He tires the defence out for 80 minutes and then we throw a goalscorer on. Sometimes it gets us a goal, sometimes it doesn't.