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Survivor: Heroes vs Villians


Lord of Oop North

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picking Sugar as part of a team to solve a puzzle is a sure fire way to lose

Hm?.. Why?.. She's blond, she's emotional- but she aint that stupid. In Gabon, she found the II where that lawyer failed.

You can find her boring. You can say she has no strategic mind. But claiming she hasn't the brains to solve a puzzle is BS. (and quite arrogant)

Need I remind you there were 3 others to blame for that?

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Hm?.. Why?.. She's blond, she's emotional- but she aint that stupid.

Yeah she is. Her relentless pursuit of Colby and irritating her tribemates by constantly waking them up are just two examples of her stupidity that got her voted out last night.

In Gabon, she found the II where that lawyer failed.

You can find her boring. You can say she has no strategic mind.

Finding an immunity idol doesn't necessarily take that much intelligence, Russell can find them in his sleep. How clues did she have?

But claiming she hasn't the brains to solve a puzzle is BS. (and quite arrogant)

Need I remind you there were 3 others to blame for that?

Did she solve the puzzle?

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Yeah she is. Her relentless pursuit of Colby and irritating her tribemates by constantly waking them up are just two examples of her stupidity that got her voted out last night.

Colby has a habit of turning down every woman that comes on to him, so most likely he's in the closet and your case is moot...

Being annoying or inconsiderate or arrogant does not mean one is also stupid. I know many annoying smart people- some on this very board.

Finding an immunity idol doesn't necessarily take that much intelligence, Russell can find them in his sleep. How clues did she have?

-2 clues

-The II was deep in the wild, with multiple clues to find on the way- not like in Samoa.

-Comparing her to Russell in this game is like saying that Omri Casspi sucks at basketball cos he's not Michael Jordan

Did she solve the puzzle?

Did Amanda? Rupert? What about Cirie? Are they all dumb?

Will you stop talking out of your ass?

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Colby has a habit of turning down every woman that comes on to him, so most likely he's in the closet and your case is moot...

"There's a lot of cute, young, strong guys here. I should attach myself to one of them and let them take me to the end."

Not a great nor intelligent strategy, but when she's got nothing else to work with...

Continually going after her target that repeatedly spurned her, and not moving on to another "cute, young, strong guy" was the essence of stupidity.

Being annoying or inconsiderate or arrogant does not mean one is also stupid. I know many annoying smart people- some on this very board.

In a game where making friends and being ready for physical competition - being annoying and inconsiderate when your teammates are trying to sleep is beyond stupid.

-2 clues

-The II was deep in the wild, with multiple clues to find on the way- not like in Samoa.

-Comparing her to Russell in this game is like saying that Omri Casspi sucks at basketball cos he's not Michael Jordan

This is an "all-stars" season, no?

Considering these are supposed to be the best heroes and villains, a more apt comparison would be saying Larry Bird sucks because he's not Michael Jordan.

Did Amanda? Rupert? What about Cirie? Are they all dumb?

Yes, yes, no.

Cirie would have been the only one of those four that I would have picked to be on a puzzle solving team.

Will you stop talking out of your ass?

:rolleyes:

Get over yourself. She's an idiot, and never should have been on this season.

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I targeted only one of your (arrogant) assertions- that she was too dumb to solve a fucking puzzle. The argument is not about her Survivor skills.

Here's a reminder-

You can find her boring. You can say she has no strategic mind. But claiming she hasn't the brains to solve a puzzle is BS.

Learn to debate.

But since you brought it up-

You clearly haven't watched Gabon, or forgot everything you saw. If you have, you would have known that the game was in her hands. She had full control of it as the swing vote. She chose to take the "good" guys to the final (the act that brought her to the all-stars)- which pretty much snuffed her chances of winning.

At first I thought she's just incapable of making rational decisions- working only with her heart, instead of her brains.

Then I read somewhere that being a model/actress, she did not play to win the game, but the love of the audience in order to boost her career. Assuming it's true and judging by the reaction she got in the final TC- she's a helluva strategist in RL.

This is an "all-stars" season, no?

So? You should have learned by now that "all-stars" does not necessarily mean the best and the brightest, it can also mean the popular or the colorful- those that the surveys indicated the audience wants to see again.

Take Coach- one of the shittiest players ever to play the game (coming to the merge 6 to 3 and handing the game to those 3? Come on..)

Not much of a villain, either.

But he's fun to watch.

Yes, yes, no.

Cirie would have been the only one of those four that I would have picked to be on a puzzle solving team.

:rolleyes:

Get over yourself. She's an idiot, and never should have been on this season.

Sorry, but arrogance rubs me the wrong way. Even more so when it's unwarranted and based on dumb assumptions.

Here are some of your assumptions, each one fallacious and/or false:

- that the intelligence to solve a puzzle=the intelligence of getting along with people and winning this game.

- that failing to solve one puzzle indicates incompetence in solving puzzles in general.

- that failing to solve a puzzle AS A TEAM is due to the incompetence of one of the team's members, rather then lack of team coordination.

Is it that hard to retract that EXTREMELY arrogant, erroneous (and probably sexist, but let's not go there) remark?

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I targeted only one of your (arrogant) assertions- that she was too dumb to solve a fucking puzzle. The argument is not about her Survivor skills.

And yet "she was too dumb to solve a fucking puzzle", because she didn't solve the fucking puzzle with a substantial lead over the other tribe.

You clearly haven't watched Gabon, or forgot everything you saw. If you have, you would have known that the game was in her hands. She had full control of it as the swing vote. She chose to let the "good" guys win (the act that brought her to the all-stars)- which pretty much snuffed her chances of winning.

Now you're just pointing out more of her stupidity.

At first I thought she's just incapable of making rational decisions- working only with her heart, instead of her brains.

Then I read somewhere that being a model/actress, she did not plan to win the game, but the love of the audience, as a boost to her career. Assuming it's true and judging by the reaction she got in the final TC- she's a helluva strategist in RL.

Yeah, she did a great job with that. I can't turn on my tv without seeing Sugar. I opened a magazine the other day, it had 38 advertisements, and she was featured in 14 of them. The magnitude of her career is staggering - I don't know how she even had time to come back and play the game again.

Sorry, but arrogance rubs me the wrong way. Even more so when it's unwarranted and based on dumb assumptions.

You mean statements like this:

Colby has a habit of turning down every woman that comes on to him, so most likely he's in the closet and your case is moot...

And I'm not assuming Sugar is an idiot, she has demonstrated that it's a fact.

Here are some of your assumptions, each one fallacious and/or false:

- that the intelligence to solve a puzzle=the intelligence of getting along with people and winning this game.

Both involve critical thinking, problem solving, advanced planning, and adaptability.

- that failing to solve one puzzle indicates incompetence in solving puzzles in general.

Failing at one puzzle does indicate that the person is more likely to fail at other puzzles.

- that failing to solve a puzzle AS A TEAM is due to the incompetence of one of the team's members, rather then lack of team coordination.

And yet, you blame coaches tribe failing on him in this same post :rolleyes:

I also said that Cirie is the only one that I would have chosen to participate in that part of the challenge. Although, having Sugar in the other part of the challenge would have been a disadvantage too.

Is it that hard to retract that EXTREMELY arrogant, erroneous

Yes, it's so arrogant of me to think that a waitress (and failed actress/singer/model) is not the go to person for a puzzle challenge.

(and probably sexist, but let's not go there) remark?

Screw you. If they had picked James to solve that puzzle I would have made even more fun.

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Friends, in situations like this, we must think to ourselves "What would Coach do?"

And the answer is probably Tai Chi.

It's time like this where Coach would wander off from the group mid-argument, get about calf-deep in a body of water, and start meditating and doing his Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon moves.

Let us emulate that now, and all take a moment to reflect.

(Hey, do you think he does those poses in water because he can actually watch his reflection in the water?)

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Now you're just pointing out more of her stupidity.

Nope. You are pointing out yours. Willfully. Why, I can't say.

Yeah, she did a great job with that. I can't turn on my tv without seeing Sugar. I opened a magazine the other day, it had 38 advertisements, and she was featured in 14 of them. The magnitude of her career is staggering - I don't know how she even had time to come back and play the game again.

*sigh*

Capitalism has rotted your soul or is it your personality? A failure is not the ultimate sin, you know, and if a plan doesn't work it doesn't mean it was hairbrain. You also need luck. Lots of it. Especially in showbiz. Ask Dustin Hoffman, if you don't believe me.

If indeed she had a plan, it was brilliant. It earned her another season, at the very least. I'll also bet that she got some contracts as a result. That she did not reach stardom by your standards... hmmm... I guess that's because dumb people who can't solve puzzles fast enough are excluded from the club.

Both involve critical thinking, problem solving, advanced planning, and adaptability.

Is that how you relate to those around you? With your critical thinking/ problem solving/ advanced planning faculties? LOL

Lemme guess- you are not in politics and you weren't the most popular guy in high school...

I would also guess that you wouldn't last long on Survivor but you'd probably rock at those puzzles.

Yes, it's so arrogant of me to think that a waitress (and failed actress/singer/model) is not the go to person for a puzzle challenge.

That you can't see how arrogant it is, is a bit sad.

You must watch Gabon- there's a girl there who's more your type. Her name is Corrinne. You'll love her.

Failing at one puzzle does indicate that the person is more likely to fail at other puzzles.

I'm glad you adjust your assumptions.

And yet, you blame coaches tribe failing on him in this same post :rolleyes:

Now you equate the social game to a puzzle challenge and find me guilty in a contradiction? GJ, mate.

At least get your facts straight- you've seen Tocanchins but sadly you didn't understand what you're seeing. I can help-

Coach's tribe did not "fail on him"- his personality, his HUGE ego, his "leadership" aspirations were what divided the tribe in the first place. When the head is sick, the body will soon disintegrate.

Only an idiot will want to step up in survivor and be "a leader". Everybody knows it puts a huge target on your back.

So that clown stepped up to be a leader. Nobody wanted him to. He took it anyway. Made it clear for everybody what's the hierarchy, as he sees it, with all his yapping about noble warriors and worthy finalists. All those in the bottom rung supposed to do.. what exactly?...

"his tribe failing on him"... :rolleyes:

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Capitalism has rotted your soul or is it your personality? A failure is not the ultimate sin, you know, and if a plan doesn't work it doesn't mean it was hairbrain. You also need luck. Lots of it. Especially in showbiz. Ask Dustin Hoffman, if you don't believe me.

If indeed she had a plan, it was brilliant. It earned her another season, at the very least. I'll also bet that she got some contracts as a result. That she did not reach stardom by your standards... hmmm... I guess that's because dumb people who can't solve puzzles fast enough are excluded from the club.

She's an actress that has zero acting credits since she has been on Survivor (and had several movie and television credits before). Yep, genius, I'm sure she considers her brilliant plan a success as she doles out refills on diet coke.

Is that how you relate to those around you? With your critical thinking/ problem solving/ advanced planning faculties? LOL

Yes, I live my life exactly as if I we're playing Survivor. :rolleyes:

Lemme guess- you are not in politics and you weren't the most popular guy in high school...

Oooooh you got me pegged. Well, not really.

I would also guess that you wouldn't last long on Survivor but you'd probably rock at those puzzles.

I guess you're right, sister, because you've 'outlasted' me on this. :bowdown: I'm off to bed, and I doubt I'll give a fuck about any of this in the morning.

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This whole Sugar argument is nonsense. I've said it ever since Gabon, Sugar is actually a very smart and strategic player that doesn't always play strategically because she is too emotional. In Gabon she showed a regular ability to turn a vote on its head and blindside people and alliances. I guess it works better to say she was good at tactics but not overarching strategy.

As for the puzzle thing, I hardly see that as a "smarts" type of thing. It is really about spacial skills, which some smart people don't have and some not smart people do. Also, it appeared to be a very difficult puzzle since it had 4 layers and you had no idea which pieces went on each layer. I think a good amount of it was luck. Besides, she wasn't the one who was actually tasked with doing the puzzle (since 4 people would be considered too many cooks). It falls more on Cirie, who most would agree IS smart.

Ultimately did Sugar deserve to go? Without a doubt. Was it the smartest move to get rid of her? Doubtful.

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I wonder if the reason the others didn't switch to voting Cirie off was because they were simply resisting the suggestion because it came from Tom? ie. will they resist any suggestion from anyone who has been known to dominate strategically, because they'll be assumed to be up to no good? It would be interesting if that happens they'll have to work through the players not known to be tacticians. Meaning Rupert, Candace, and James as proxies for the Amanda-Cirie alliance, or Tom-Stephanie alliance, at least for an episode before someone gets the upperhand or the HII (if there is one this year) is found and played or used to force the issue.

Speaking of which, I wonder if any clues to the HII will be given out at all? Since Russell found them so easily last season, maybe they are thinking of just hiding them without clues this time, and letting the smart ones who decide to look for them have the advantage? That would be a way for them to get Russell to the final tribal again, which they OBVIOUSLY want to do.

Cirie has a big target on her back. Probably only a HII will save her.

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From a strategic POV I think voting out Sugar first might have been a poor move, but y'all have to remember that basically every one on her season of survivor had a problem with her. She is probably exceptionally annoying to be around.

Remember that the stuff that goes in camp is heavily edited. In her season she was portrayed like the "little surivor that could", being all alone, finding the II, her and her struggle with her grief against everyone, and so on and so forth. When you can relate to someone, and root for them, you want to continue watching the show. In fact, if I don't remember wrong, I think some of the cast members mentioned on the reunion show that regular camp life was edited to put Sugar in a better light than she deserved.

My vote would have been for Cirie, but she seems to have cast some sort of Immunity: target for elimination spell. Definitely one of the stronger players, I can't believe that Tom is the only one who sees this after the two seasons she's been on.

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And what's the deal with Rupert? I remember him being a huge provider during his seasons. Seems like he's milking the toe thing. I've broke toes before .. and uh ... yeah.

Well you probably took ibuprofein or acetometophin or something to help with the pain. Rupert is old, hungry, and tired, not to mention he looks like he's lost 100 lbs or something, so he may be physically done.

The most interesting thing to me on the first episode was seeing how OLD people looked. It blows my mind that a lot of these guys were on Survivor 5 to 10 YEARS ago. Colby, Rupert, Tom, and Jerri looked pretty bad. Russel is probably hard up after a month of starvation, and for some reason Amanda didn't look 100%. Only James, Tyson, Candice and Stephanie looked like they were ready to bring it.

I'd say Colby, Tom, and Rupert were largely successful because they were physical beasts (and suprise suprise all are heroes). They just don't seem like serious threats this season, especially with JT and James on the Heroes tribe. Cirie and Amanda are both "Heroes" that are actually pretty damn good at the game and cut a lot of throats on survivor. I'd vote both of them off ASAP, because neither are good alliance members.

The two people I hated on Gabon were Sugar and Randy. I'm thankful one is gone. I have no idea where you guys think she might be smart. She bumbled her way through the whole thing, and I absolutely agree the only reason she was on the show was to boost her modeling career (which half of the hot chicks are there for every season). After her cuddling with Colby episode and crying at the challenge, I was ready to shoot myself in the eyes. I find Stephanie, Candice or even Jerri far better people to watch on TV (not to mention smarter). Speaking of Randy, why is this dipshit back? I think they tried to slap the most annoying people on survivor on the villians team since they had so few "real villians" (**cough** Courtney **cough**).

The last thing I was a tad suprised at was the first challenge. First, stephanie had her arm dislocated ON PURPOSE, and there was no punishment. Second, the pulling off the top thing was definitely uncalled for (and probably at least on par with tripping), and will become a serious problem as you guys note above if every guy does that to every female every challenge (and why wouldn't you?) Accidental boobage is good for ratings, purposeful is definitely not.

In order to be the Perfect Warrior, a man must be able to see himself ... to correct any mistakes, of course ...

The Dragon slayer has such huge testicles that they get very very hot, therefore must be dunked in a little water to cool them down...

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The last thing I was a tad suprised at was the first challenge. First, stephanie had her arm dislocated ON PURPOSE, and there was no punishment. Second, the pulling off the top thing was definitely uncalled for (and probably at least on par with tripping), and will become a serious problem as you guys note above if every guy does that to every female every challenge (and why wouldn't you?) Accidental boobage is good for ratings, purposeful is definitely not.

According to the Entertainment Weekly Survivor guy that first challenge was edited to all hell. Steph's shoulder was dislocated on the first go but the "first go" they actually showed in the episode was like try number 4 where Steph's shoulder had already been dislocated then relocated. Which makes more sense because Courtney yells "Break her shoulder!" which seems like a pretty strange thing to shout randomnly unless you already knew their shoulder was hurt and then it's just a jackass move.

Ups to Stephanie though for being pretty badass. Kind of like Riggs in Lethal Weapon

EDIT: Here's the link: http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20343684_2,00.html good stuff on page 2

Double edit: That's fucked up apparently it doesn't let you link to it; or more likely I'm a moron.

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