NFL the offseason

[Nymeria Sand]

I just read the article on ESPN.com; its certainly unsavory. I know that we are supposed to be presumed innocent until proven guilty, but on reading the exerpts from the report I believe whole heartedly that he raped that little girl after getting her drunk. He may not have beaten her or been overly forceful with her, but I believe that he had non-consensual intercourse with her.

Ben is lucky that he didn't get a prosecuter who wanted to try and make a name for himself with this case. To me it sounds like he knew what he had and he knew it would be a circus with little chance of a conviction. I don't know what would be better for the victim; pursuing a criminal case against her attacker or sparing her the notoriety and trauma of a drawn out court battle with a less than certain conclusion.

I'm pretty sure he raped her, but she needs to accept some responsibility, too. Maybe that's why she didn't want to go forward--she would have been dragged to hell and back based just on her actions at night, never mind any other situations she's been in. While it's never okay for a man to force a woman, she could have acted more appropriately herself. She had sexual comments with him, was wearing a T shirt that said something that means "I want sex" and followed him around one of the bars they were at. Girls that age go to bars for two reasons only: to get drunk and get a man. He set her up, and she fell for it.

That being said, if she said no, that means no. Period. (And the police he had with him are being investigated by the PA State Police, too.) But she was so drunk she might not remember what she said.

[awesome possum]

In all likelihood, that's the likely reason no chargers were filed. Her friends admit the girl was wasted, so Ben's high-powered lawyers would have tore her to shreds.

Goodell definitely needs to pull the trigger on this guy, or else his entire tenure will be marred.

[Chuck Klingbeil]

Ted Ginn Jr., the biggest wussy in the NFL, playing for 'Samurai' Mike Singletary? Good luck with all that.

[Kalbear]

And wow - Ginn got picked as a high first round pick, what - 3 years ago? And now he's worth a 5th rounder. Nice job on that draft, Miami.

[Maithanet]

And wow - Ginn got picked as a high first round pick, what - 3 years ago? And now he's worth a 5th rounder. Nice job on that draft, Miami.

Just as a return man alone I'd think he'd be worth more than that. 5th rounders only make the team about half the time.

[Commodore]

I would suspend Big Ben for the entire season.

[DanteGabriel]

And now for the comic relief: Jared Allen has an official iPhone app.

Here, according to Allen's page on the iTunes Web site, is what you will find in the new app:

- "History of all American flags. There's been more than one flag, so be a real American and learn all of them.

- "Mullet Generator — if you're not cool enough to have a real one, add one to your own pic and send it off to all your friends. You'll get the idea of how cool you can really look.

- "Pictures of me hunting and playing football (body slamming quarterbacks).

- "Pictures of the mullet militia — if you have a sweet picture of yourself rocking a mullet — email it to [email protected], and if it's cool enough — I'll make sure to put it on the app."

Allen also encourages users to "ask me questions and I'll try to get back to you — just make sure they aren't dumb."

There also is a "Twitter app to use to tweet," according to Allen. "I don't know what this means, but Rock Software (which created the app) said it would (be) cool. I don't use tweeter yet."

He also urges users to "check out my favorite songs and apps. Real music right there" and also to peruse "sound bites that you can ONLY use to crank call or if you're at the library."

http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_14892722?nclick_check=1

[Bronn Stone]

And wow - Ginn got picked as a high first round pick, what - 3 years ago? And now he's worth a 5th rounder. Nice job on that draft, Miami.

Definitely a high-reward, low-risk deal for the 49ers.

[Swordfish]

I would suspend Big Ben for the entire season.

The players union would never sit still for that, nor should they.

in the end, all there is is a lot evidence that he's a douchebag (which was no secret even before this incident), and a lot of speculation.

As unsavory as that may be, i don't think you can suspend a guy for a whole year based on that alone.

The precedent alone would be extremely troublesome for the league. If you're handing out season long suspensions to a guy who isn't even charged with anything, how do you let any player in the future who does get charged with a crime off the hook with less, even if they are acquitted?

I think he'll get two games. Which seems about right.

[Kalbear]

I don't think that's entirely fair. You can base a harsh penalty on the grounds that he has had multiple bad image incidents, has not shown change in his behavior and has been at least accused of multiple felonies. I think that it's more reasonable to suspend him for four games, but probably not a year.

[Chuck Klingbeil]

And wow - Ginn got picked as a high first round pick, what - 3 years ago? And now he's worth a 5th rounder. Nice job on that draft, Miami.

Picked by Cam Cameron and Randy Mueller, not the Parcell's regime. And Cameron at the time justified the high draft position by saying they picked not only Ginn, but the entire Ginn family. So I guess his family is included in this trade, so maybe Miami should have asked for more than a 5th rounder, huh? What is the Ginn family worth on the trade compensation value chart? 14.2?

[Chuck Klingbeil]

Just as a return man alone I'd think he'd be worth more than that. 5th rounders only make the team about half the time.

His impact as a returner was significant in about three games in three years. Ginn is EXTREMELY fast, but doesn't show much quickness. As a punt returner he just didn't have the initial quickness or shiftiness to make that first guy miss. As a kick-off guy he was (like his receiving) too scared of contact and would bail out of bounds too often.

I suppose he might florish as a returner (let alone receiver) under new or better coaching, but how do you coach quickness? Or guts?

[Commodore]

If it's borderline rape, I think it deserves a full season suspension, at the least.

[Bronn Stone]

If it's borderline rape, I think it deserves a full season suspension, at the least.

Not without criminal charges being pressed. Would be too far out of line with past precedent.

[Swordfish]

I don't think that's entirely fair. You can base a harsh penalty on the grounds that he has had multiple bad image incidents, has not shown change in his behavior and has been at least accused of multiple felonies. I think that it's more reasonable to suspend him for four games, but probably not a year.

I wouldn't complain about four games, but I think it'll be two.

If it's borderline rape, I think it deserves a full season suspension, at the least.

Which it may or may not have been.

How would the NFL prove it was borderline rape?

It's mostly speculation at this point.

[Kalbear]

The NFL doesn't need to prove anything. There was nothing proven about Pacman, for instance. The NFL's stipulation is the arrest or even attention from the authorities, or moral violations. Whether or not anything is proven is completely irrelevant.

[Swordfish]

The NFL doesn't need to prove anything. There was nothing proven about Pacman, for instance. The NFL's stipulation is the arrest or even attention from the authorities, or moral violations. Whether or not anything is proven is completely irrelevant.

We were talking about the severity of the punishment, not about whether or not the NFL has the authority to punish him.

So no, it isn't completely irrelevant.

The comparison to PacMan is asinine to the extent that it doesn't even really deserve comment other than to point out that he was arrested, what, a dozen times as a professional football player? And wasn't he already on probation when they drafted him?

[Nymeria Sand]

The players union would never sit still for that, nor should they.

in the end, all there is is a lot evidence that he's a douchebag (which was no secret even before this incident), and a lot of speculation.

As unsavory as that may be, i don't think you can suspend a guy for a whole year based on that alone.

The precedent alone would be extremely troublesome for the league. If you're handing out season long suspensions to a guy who isn't even charged with anything, how do you let any player in the future who does get charged with a crime off the hook with less, even if they are acquitted?

I think he'll get two games. Which seems about right.

Does the fact that he met with Goodell without union reprentation count for anything? He told Goodell and the Steelers that he'll accept any punishment they dish out.

[Swordfish]

Does the fact that he met with Goodell without union reprentation count for anything?

I'm not sure. I don't think the union can really do much about it either way though unless the suspension breaks precedent. .

He told Goodell and the Steelers that he'll accept any punishment they dish out.

I suspect that they already told him what the punishment would be, and that the whole 'I'll accept whatever the league dishes out' was part of the discussion when goodell met with him.

ie:

Goodell: 'The suspension is x number of games, and you will have a press conference and be humble and state that you accept any punishment, or it'll be x+2 games.'

Either that or he finally has a decent PR person.

Speculation also that they are waiting to announce until after the draft because they don't want the drama of the situation dominating the draft.

[Angalin]

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