When did the Republican Party go off the rails?

[Jaime L]

The Root has an interesting (and biased) perspective on the CPAC convention currently going on in Washington that articulates a lot of my feelings about the increasingly concerning direction in which the conservative movement seems to be heading.

But this momentary rebound hinges upon the same dangerous game that CPAC and Republicans at large have been playing since the Bush years. Whether on health care, climate change or tax cuts--somewhere along the line, they seem to have purged conservative political discourse of real information.

Late Democratic Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan famously told an adversary: "You're entitled to your own opinions. You're not entitled to your own facts" Yet the communications climate in which Fox News wins rating wars, conservative talk radio reigns supreme, and Internet stalwarts like Matt Drudge's Web site are joined by new media entrants like Andrew Breitbart (ubiquitous at CPAC, and the "tea party" convention earlier in February) makes assembling your own version of reality as easy as American pie.

So Republicans are able to pretend the stimulus and the bailout are the same type of "government spending"--though they're not. House leaders Reps. John Boehner and Eric Cantor have repeated the line that Obama needs to cut taxes--though a third of the stimulus is tax cuts for 95 percent of Americans. Dozens of Republican House members have taken credit for local growth funded by the Recovery Act they hated, and maintain that liberals are big spenders--when it's Republican presidents who ballooned the deficit. The GOP obsession with image and rhetoric over substance sometimes comes at their own expense: Rather than elect a competent fundraiser as the public face of the party, the Republican National Committee, in a knee-jerk reaction to Obama's election, supported the continued upward fall of Michael "potato salad" Steele.

I know people are going to claim this is just politics as usual. But it's not. The Democrats engage in the typical campaigns of exaggeration and mischaracterization of an opponent's position. The Republicans (and Beck, Limbaugh and Conservative Columnists who now, BTW, provide the marching orders for the party) though take this to an entirely different level: propogating and encouraging the spread of blatant misinformation and purposeful obstufucation of complex issues (like Health Care, The Bailout, the Stimulus etc.) There's a difference here and it's entirely in degree. To equate the two as equal is to engage in the kind of false equivalency that not only condones the campaign of misinformation, it engages in it.

Board Conservatives, nearly across the board, in contrast, believe in and hold to intellectual honesty. But to those who continue to support the Republican Party, I have to ask why? Even if you align far closer to Conservative philosophy than Liberal, how can you support a party that no longer seems to value facts, just catchphrases and easy to remember slogans? How can extreme anti-intellectualism not be seen as the greater problem? Or do you believe the two parties are equivalent in this regard?

My bias is showing, clearly, but it doesn't mean I'm not right. I don't know how you can see a Sarah Palin's candidacy, or the pernicious influence of a Beck or Limbaugh openly setting Republican policy as anything but the sign of a malignancy in the machine. Been reflecting on EHK's line that: "The Republican Party needs to be destroyed" and, to me, seems more and more true. Conservatism can and should live on (infact, I'd argue we need some of its best aspects) but not in the twisted form it takes under the Republican Party. Had really hoped the overwhelming Democrat win in 2008 would've forced the Republican Party towards real self-reflection and a purging of the cancerous influence of the nuttiest element of the party. Instead, it seems to have gone the other way...that Neo-Conservative, Anti-Intellectualist Fringe has instead seized even more power and now sets marching orders for the (increasingly rare) moderates rather than the other way around. Board Conservatives, how is this not alarming?

Am I wrong here? If so, how?

[Shryke]

Nixon and his Southern Strategy.

Or Reagan if you want to think the guys from Nixon's time didn't know where it was headed.

The GOP made a deal with the devil to get elected and the devil is collecting.

[DanteGabriel]

My own thought was that the GOP went off the rails when they went balls-out to impeach Bill Clinton over lying about a blowjob. That's at least when they went hyper-partisan and stopped pretending to even care about functional government or serving the greater good.

[Jaime L]

I personally think that both parties have gone off the rails.

So you don't see that as a false equivalency?

This is where I wanted to dig deeper. Where have the Democrats lost their way and how does it measure up against Republican transgressions?

[DanteGabriel]

So you don't see that as a false equivalency?

This is where I wanted to dig deeper. Where have the Democrats lost their way and how does it measure up against Republican transgressions?

The Democrats lost their way by becoming as much of a party of corporate stooges as the Republicans were, and at some point (probably related to that) lost their coherence and their guts.

As I see it, we have one party of crazies with stupid ideas and one party of cowards with no ideas.

[Shryke]

The Democrats lost their way by becoming as much of a party of corporate stooges as the Republicans were, and at some point (probably related to that) lost their coherence and their guts.

As I see it, we have one party of crazies with stupid ideas and one party of cowards with no ideas.

The Democratic Party has a bunch of ideas. They just don't have the numbers to implement them without padding out their ranks with corporate stooges.

[awesome possum]

I agree with pretty much everything you said Jaime. My only hope is that Democrats and Independents come out in as much force for the midterm elections as they did for the 2008 election. Only a brutal defeat for the Republican party as it is can stave off the nuts on the far right hellbent on taking over.

I personally think that both parties have gone off the rails.

The case for Republicans was made above. Care to attempt to make a case for the Democrats?

[Trebla]

Nixon and his Southern Strategy.

Or Reagan if you want to think the guys from Nixon's time didn't know where it was headed.

The GOP made a deal with the devil to get elected and the devil is collecting.

This. To achieve the business goals they had grasp the hand of the religous right. Now the Religous Right runs them and is running them into the ground. And if we are not careful it will take the rest of us with them.

[awesome possum]

As I see it, we have one party of crazies with stupid ideas and one party of cowards with no ideas.

I'd change the second part to, "one party of cowards who throw their ideas away anytime someone, no matter how insignificant, yells at them."

[Trebla]

I'd change the second part to, "one party of cowards who throw their ideas away anytime someone, no matter how insignificant, yells at them."

I'd agree to that. Give Bush/Cheney their due on that: no matter the uproar, they "stuck to their guns".

[Shryke]

I'd change the second part to, "one party of cowards who throw their ideas away anytime someone, no matter how insignificant, yells at them."

Except the yelling is not insignificant most of the time.

The pervasive myth of the "Liberal Media" and the general shittiness of the media in modern times has made stupid ideas and stupid complaints into Big Issues.

This has only gotten worse as the Right Wing has developed their own self-sustaining "reality" to feed to their members.

[DanteGabriel]

Also, the lack of concern regarding the deficit, which Obama promised to cut in half by the end of his first term. That promise doesn't seem to have made it anywhere.

But it was a Republican, and indeed the Republicans' most cherished undead savior, Ronald Reagan, who made deficit spending so chic.

[litechick]

My own thought was that the GOP went off the rails when they went balls-out to impeach Bill Clinton over lying about a blowjob.

I would even go a little farther and say it was when they hired Ken Starr to investigate Clinton. It looks to me as if he had orders to bring Clinton down by any means necessary and that was fucked up and wrong.

I personally think that both parties have gone off the rails.

This.

[Shryke]

I think it's enough that the cornerstone policy initiative of health care in it's current form having little public support (currently far less than 50%) but is threatened to be run through anyways by the Reconciliation process is enough.

Also, the lack of concern regarding the deficit, which Obama promised to cut in half by the end of his first term. That promise doesn't seem to have made it anywhere.

I don't think we need to go any further than those two issues, right there.

I think you do since neither of those indicates how the Democrats have "gone off the rails".

Hell, they aren't even true.

[The Progressive]

The latest example of this derangement and purging of reality would the the teabaggers' reaction to Scott Brown's vote on the job bill.

The teabaggers screamed and whines for lower taxes and help to small businesses ............ the bill included tons of tax breaks for small businesses.

[The Progressive]

I think it's enough that the cornerstone policy initiative of health care in it's current form having little public support (currently far less than 50%) but is threatened to be run through anyways by the Reconciliation process is enough.

Also, the lack of concern regarding the deficit, which Obama promised to cut in half by the end of his first term. That promise doesn't seem to have made it anywhere.

I don't think we need to go any further than those two issues, right there.

Sadly, neither of these two claims are true.

[awesome possum]

I think it's enough that the cornerstone policy initiative of health care in it's current form having little public support (currently far less than 50%) but is threatened to be run through anyways by the Reconciliation process is enough.

And "death panels" or "government takeover of health care" had nothing to do with this? If you look at public support, the individual items in the bill are all heavily supported. It's just that the Republican talking point machine has been out in force more than the Democrat machine. The public has been force-fed lies about the bill for so long those who don't know better have begun to believe the lies.

That's where I'd agree Dems have gone off the rails. They lost the battle for public opinion because they thought they won it after the 2008 elections, not realizing the GOP was getting ready to drop every nuke in their arsenal. It wasn't until the State of the Union that Dems finally fired back.

[Shryke]

Lev - you are ignoring the polls:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform

Feb 23, 2010 - "A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 41% of voters favor the proposed health care plan, while 56% oppose it. Those figures include 45% who strongly oppose the plan and just 23% who strongly favor it.

Support for and opposition to the plan are at the same levels they’ve been at since just after Thanksgiving."

Now look at your same article some more and see things like:

Sixty-three percent (63%) of all voters say a better strategy to reform the health care system would be to pass smaller bills that address problems individually.

So Health Care reform in fact has incredibly high levels of support. Just not the specific proposal that the Democrats have been able to get through Congress.

And freaking google the campaign promise to cut the deficit in half, will ya? Do I have to do it all for you??

He promised to do it in four years. Has it been 4 years? No?

/shock

Stop the disingenous bullshit Chats.

Now explain to me how a health care proposal that isn't as good as many wish it was (but seems to be the best they can pass) and a promise you can't even determine whether he will break it or not yet constitute the Democratic Party "going off the rails".

[The Progressive]

The Democrats lost their way by becoming as much of a party of corporate stooges as the Republicans were, and at some point (probably related to that) lost their coherence and their guts.

As I see it, we have one party of crazies with stupid ideas and one party of cowards with no ideas.

I don't know about that ........... Pelosi is doing one hell of a job in the House.

[Andriy Czarchenko]

Research2000 polled the support for both Senate bill and public option in 7 states.

* In Nevada, only 34% support the Senate bill, while 56% support the public option.

* In Illinois, only 37% support the Senate bill, while 68% support the public option.

* In Washington State, only 38% support the Senate bill, while 65% support the public option.

* In Missouri, only 33% support the Senate bill, while 57% support the public option.

* In Virginia, only 36% support the Senate bill, while 61% support the public option.

* In Iowa, only 35% support the Senate bill, while 62% support the public option.

*In Minnesota, only 35% support the Senate bill, while 62% support the public option.

*In Colorado, only 32% support the Senate bill, while 58% support the public option.

Yep, public option is very popular.