Lost season 6

[Gertrude]

Time for a new thread. Discussion about the most recent episode starts here in the old thread.

[Caligula_K]

Come on guys, witty subtitles! We Lost fanatics have to appear cool to the rest of the board.

Look, people who disliked the episode, I'll admit Richard's early backstory wasn't absolutely essential to the story of the island. But it sure as hell made the episode a lot more enjoyable and made Richard a more sympathetic character. I also wasn't expecting one super long flashback like this, but I thought it worked very well, and as a story, probably better than jumping around 130 years in time would have. Just too bad we can't get two Richard episodes...

[Gertrude]

I find it amusing that you guys just think the Black Rock took out the statue. What about the giant wave it was riding, did that just disappear? :laugh:

Yeah, yeah. I know, waves, high velocity projectile yada, yada. Still looked kind of stupid. Of course it was this storm that took out a statue that has been standing for ... what? A couple thousand years? A statue that large and top heavy right on the freaking shore would have come down long before that. And don't try to explain it away with rational explanations because that would just ruin my fun :P

I am totally up for suggestions on subtitles.

[Slurktan]

Well as I was implying in the other thread its obvious the Tsunami wave took out the statue and sent the ship inland, not too too unbelievable, well at least not to me.

As to the Canary Islands to New World thing, I don't think the island moved that far. Hanso clearly lied to Richard about it going to the New World. Taking a bunch of indentured slaves to America post 1865 wouldn't be that smart.

Edit: I agree the CGI wave/ship/statue/smash looked pretty stupid.

[Trebla]

As far as the ship from the finale season,, Jaconb mentioned that he keeps bringing people to the island to prove that they can change.

This episode did answer a lot of questions, if not openly. Jacob states that he wants people to change but he doesn't involve himself in changing people while MiB does. Free will vs. Destiny. So only up until recently has Jacob began to "guide" people on the island through Richard.

[Caligula_K]

Well as I was implying in the other thread its obvious the Tsunami wave took out the statue and sent the ship inland, not too too unbelievable, well at least not to me.

As to the Canary Islands to New World thing, I don't think the island moved that far. Hanso clearly lied to Richard about it going to the New World. Taking a bunch of indentured slaves to America post 1865 wouldn't be that smart.

Ahh, yes, the tsunami makes sense for how it got so far inland. But once again: Did I miss something the MiB said about it?

To all statue skeptics: Keep in mind that giant marble statues like that are not one piece, and they pretty easily collapse on their own and need consistent attention and care. I really don't have a problem with how it got destroyed.

Oh yes, and I'm just going to say how nice it was to have an episode without the flash sideways.

[Gertrude]

Well as I was implying in the other thread its obvious the Tsunami wave took out the statue and sent the ship inland, not too too unbelievable, well at least not to me.

As to the Canary Islands to New World thing, I don't think the island moved that far. Hanso clearly lied to Richard about it going to the New World. Taking a bunch of indentured slaves to America post 1865 wouldn't be that smart.

I think that would have to be one HELL of a tsunami. That ship is pretty far inland if I remember right. But yes, I can see they were probably trying to get at that. Just think it was poorly executed.

Brazil was a major importer of slaves as well and didn't oulaw it until 1888.

[Slurktan]

Gertrude, you mentioned in the other thread about how in the finale last year it was calm around the Black Rock and then Big storm now.... we've already been shown several times that the weather on the island can switch like that, most likely it is under MiB's control.

Edit:

Brazil was a major importer of slaves as well and didn't oulaw it until 1888.

Given that Hanso required Richard to speak English they would have not been going to Brazil.

[Gertrude]

To all statue skeptics: Keep in mind that giant marble statues like that are not one piece, and they pretty easily collapse on their own and need consistent attention and care. I really don't have a problem with how it got destroyed.

Which is why I am skeptical that the statue was standing at all by this time. This is assuming the statue is indeed Egyptian and not built at a a much much later date.

OK, question about sideways world. The island is sunk in this timeline, so where is MiB? Destroyed (doubtful), loose on the world (we haven't seen any evidence of this yet), or still bound in some way?

[Trebla]

And how cool is it that Hurley continues to be Jacob's ace in the hole? Hurley has always been dismissed as the fat guy, told to stay out of the way when Sawyer and Juliet went to confront the Others. Right now he's the most important person on the island.

[Gertrude]

Gertrude, you mentioned in the other thread about how in the finale last year it was calm around the Black Rock and then Big storm now.... we've already been shown several times that the weather on the island can switch like that, most likely it is under MiB's control.

Edit:

Given that Hanso required Richard to speak English they would have not been going to Brazil.

Damn you for introducing logic! OK, then we have another mystery to contemplate. Where were they headed?

Weather under MiB's control? True, he needs people to come in order to kill Jacob, but I thought Jacob is the one who keeps bringing people to the island. Didn't he admit to bringing the ship when he was talking to MiB last season? If so, he had to have been manipulating events long before they happened to have sailed by and he whipped up an extra strength tsunami in no time flat to bring them to shore.

Treb - totally agree. Hurley is the man.

BTW, was anyone else surprised to learn the age of Richard? I thought he was going to be about 100 years older than that. Not that 150 isn't old, obviously, it's almost a let down that it's not more.

[Werthead]

This episode rocked. I particularly liked the fact that Magnus Hanso was confirmed as the Captain of the Black Rock, as first mooted on the blast door map in the Swan Station (four years ago!) and then confirmed by The Lost Experience. The Lost Experience also states that the Black Rock ended up in completely the wrong place to where it was supposed to be going, eventually ending up being sighted sailing east from Indonesia into the Pacific, which would seem to answer that question.

I also love the fact that they combined the answers to the questions, what happened to the Black Rock and how did the statue fall down? Slightly bonkers answer, but I like the directness of it.

I was getting worried that the Island would actually turn out to be Hell after all. After five years of saying the Island wasn't purgatory, Darlton could well have just said, "Well, we were right. It wasn't purgatory, it was the one next door. BOO-YAR!" Thankfully that didn't happen.

So putting it together, MIB manipulated Richard using his wife. Fair enough. And the Island is a cork that prevents 'evil' from entering the world (presumably evil in this case being the MIB). Also fair enough, if a bit WoT-esque (the Island being the patch over the Bore into the Dark One's prison).

Looking forward to finding out what happened with Jacob and the MIB to put them on this crazy Island in the first place and set the whole thing in motion.

[Mya Stone]

This tidbit from Lostpedia explains where the Black Rock was headed:

In 1867, Jonas Whitfield was looking for prisoners that could speak English. He came upon Richard Alpert. The ship was later lost at sea. According to an auctioneer selling the ship's first mate's journal, the Black Rock set sail from Portsmouth, England on March 22, 1845, purportedly on a trading mission to the Kingdom of Siam (now known as Thailand).

I realize this would have a huge time discrepancy - did trading missions really take 22 years?

My biggest question from this episode is this: How the heck was Isabella present on the Island (granted, in her ghostly form)? We have confirmation that it was not the MiB masquerading as her, and IIRC, Darlton have said that Jacob only appears as himself - so how was she there? Does this then lend credence to the thought that perhaps Christian Shepherd is really himself?

Any theories on that?

[Foreverlad]

This tidbit from Lostpedia explains where the Black Rock was headed:

I realize this would have a huge time discrepancy - did trading missions really take 22 years?

My biggest question from this episode is this: How the heck was Isabella present on the Island (granted, in her ghostly form)? We have confirmation that it was not the MiB masquerading as her, and IIRC, Darlton have said that Jacob only appears as himself - so how was she there? Does this then lend credence to the thought that perhaps Christian Shepherd is really himself?

Any theories on that?

Where exactly was the confirmation? Aside from some sound effects above the boat during Isabella's ghostly appearance, I didn't see any absolute proof or hear anything reliable to believe it wasn't the MiB manipulating Richard. The fact she was "killed" only seconds later above-boat only reinforces the notion.

ETA: Along with her bearing/repeating the same "We're in Hell" message the MiB used.

[Caligula_K]

Where exactly was the confirmation? Aside from some sound effects above the boat during Isabella's ghostly appearance, I didn't see any absolute proof or hear anything reliable to believe it wasn't the MiB manipulating Richard. The fact she was "killed" only seconds later above-boat only reinforces the notion.

Ya, I thought it was pretty clear that Isabella in the Black Rock was the MiB manipulating Richard- Jacob even says something like "that wasn't your wife." I also thought that at the end she was Jacob, especially since her warning was nearly identical to Jacob's, but if DamCar say that Jacob doesn't show up as other people, that blows my theory out.

[Space Bandito]

Just adding that I am a faithful reader to the Lost threads, but never have anything of significance to add. A Lost leech if you will. :bowdown:

[Demonblade]

So putting it together, MIB manipulated Richard using his wife. Fair enough. And the Island is a cork that prevents 'evil' from entering the world (presumably evil in this case being the MIB). Also fair enough, if a bit WoT-esque (the Island being the patch over the Bore into the Dark One's prison).

Looking forward to finding out what happened with Jacob and the MIB to put them on this crazy Island in the first place and set the whole thing in motion.

See, I'm not convinced anymore that MiB is the 'evil' that Jacob is supposed to keep from entering the world. He's an agent to keep the evil from coming out, just like Jacob is. He's as much a protector of the island as Jacob is, only he's disillusioned and wants to get out so he betrays his, uh, I dunno, boss? in Jacob. Jacob seemed really surprised that MiB tried to kill him, and I doubt a man like Jacob would truly be surprised at anything pure evil throws at his way, particularly trying to kill him. So hence, I don't believe MiB is true 'evil'.

[Gertrude]

Well, Isabella could only bee seen and heard by Hurley, so she is very different from Christian I think. As to why she is there, I think Richard has always carried her in his heart. Sappy answer, I know, but it actually fits I think. She didn't see him bury the cross because he had just accepted that he wouldn't be reunited with her ever (he won't die) so was shutting her out at that time. She appears when Richard is losing his faith and considering turning to the MiB, who has offered him his wife back.

[Mya Stone]

Where exactly was the confirmation? Aside from some sound effects above the boat during Isabella's ghostly appearance, I didn't see any absolute proof or hear anything reliable to believe it wasn't the MiB manipulating Richard. The fact she was "killed" only seconds later above-boat only reinforces the notion.

ETA: Along with her bearing/repeating the same "We're in Hell" message the MiB used.

Not that time. I agree that was Smokey...but the end, with Hurley seeing her, and all that. That's really her, as far as I'm concerned. Especially since you see Flocke watching the scene from a hilltop.

Ya, I thought it was pretty clear that Isabella in the Black Rock was the MiB manipulating Richard- Jacob even says something like "that wasn't your wife." I also thought that at the end she was Jacob, especially since her warning was nearly identical to Jacob's, but if DamCar say that Jacob doesn't show up as other people, that blows my theory out.

That's what I'm saying, Caligula. I will try and find a direct quote about it, but I am 99.9% sure they have said that Jacob is only ever Jacob.

[Gertrude]

See, I'm not convinced anymore that MiB is the 'evil' that Jacob is supposed to keep from entering the world. He's an agent to keep the evil from coming out, just like Jacob is. He's as much a protector of the island as Jacob is, only he's disillusioned and wants to get out so he betrays his, uh, I dunno, boss? in Jacob. Jacob seemed really surprised that MiB tried to kill him, and I doubt a man like Jacob would truly be surprised at anything pure evil throws at his way, particularly trying to kill him. So hence, I don't believe MiB is true 'evil'.

I like this a lot actually.

I didn't get that you were talking about Isabella on the Black Rock Mya. That appearance of her was different from the others. Am I imagining it or when she first appeared was it a little fuzzy and the back ground was cleaner than the black rock really was? (i.e. barrels neatly upright) I took it as more of a hallucination than an actual manifestation. Has anything we've seen of Smokie suggest this is within his power? I agree, it was an attempt at manipulation, but I also think it was a hallucination - two things that don't really fit together well.