US army murders Reuters journalists and civilians

[King Nobody]

http://collateralmurder.com/'>http://collateralmurder.com/

Wikileaks has obtained and decrypted this previously unreleased video footage from a US Apache helicopter in 2007. It shows Reuters journalist Namir Noor-Eldeen, driver Saeed Chmagh, and several others as the Apache shoots and kills them in a public square in Eastern Baghdad. They are apparently assumed to be insurgents. After the initial shooting, an unarmed group of adults and children in a minivan arrives on the scene and attempts to transport the wounded. They are fired upon as well. The official statement on this incident initially listed all adults as insurgents and claimed the US military did not know how the deaths ocurred. Wikileaks released this video with transcripts and a package of supporting documents on April 5th 2010 on http://collateralmurder.com

[potsherds]

Not surprised to read this.

Oh, and thank the gods for Wikileaks. The American government is terribly interested in shutting them down, which shows just how important they are.

[The_BlauerDragon]

Not surprising on any level. Not surprising that they mistook them for insurgents, not surprising that they gunned them down, not surprising that they went with the knee jerk reaction and attempted to cover it up (instead of just saying, "Yeah, we thought they were insurgents so we shot them, our bad."), and not surprising that the U.S. Govt would be interested in shutting down any group that actually attempts to report true and accurate news of any sort.

Sad, I wish that I lived in a society where this would be a shock and an outrage, but I don't.

[Horza]

Not surprised to read this.

Oh, and thank the gods for Wikileaks. The American government is terribly interested in shutting them down, which shows just how important they are.

Ours already has. :(

[Ran]

Incredibly disturbing. Using helicopters to identify possible insurgents makes sense enough. To have them fire on random collections of people because they believe they see them carrying weapons seems wrong, however, when it's apparent that their cameras aren't really giving them enough resolution to be sure of their identification.

The most disturbing parts for me, however, were when they decide to shoot the van. Yes, those might be insurgents collecting their own... but they might not be, they may be nothing more than bystanders trying to save someone's life. And then, you realize that in a sense this god's eye view of the field and this terrible power they control renders it into so much of a video game -- laughing about how they got a shot right through the windshield, say, is the sort of talk you'll hear on FPS servers. No apparent concern that maybe those people weren't combatants.

I imagine no one has gotten dressed down for this, much less arrested. But I hope someone in the chain of command realized something went wrong and made some effort to improve their protocols for deciding when Apaches can and cannot fire.

[Shryke]

It's important to remember that these guys were protecting a convoy that had already come under fire at the time, not simply flying about looking for targets.

It's also a fairly common tactic of insurgents to rush onto the field to grab back supplies and hide bodies. Hence the firing on the van.

[awesome possum]

"Look at those dead bastards"

"Nice"

I just don't understand the mindset outside of, as Ran said, video games. Hopefully I never will. It's disgusting and perverted.

[Relic]

Incredibly disturbing. Using helicopters to identify possible insurgents makes sense enough. To have them fire on random collections of people because they believe they see them carrying weapons seems wrong, however, when it's apparent that their cameras aren't really giving them enough resolution to be sure of their identification.

This has been happening for YEARS. Decades. The USA has been known to mistake cattle troughs for missles, bombing cattle, farmer, and family into oblivion. And hardly anyone that "matters' says anything. The worst amongst us call it collateral damage, an inevitability of war. I call it murder.

[Shryke]

"Look at those dead bastards"

"Nice"

I just don't understand the mindset outside of, as Ran said, video games. Hopefully I never will. It's disgusting and perverted.

They take pride in their work and they are, in their minds, killing the enemy (ie - the guys trying to kill them and their buddies).

Why is this mindset hard to understand?

[awesome possum]

They take pride in their work and they are, in their minds, killing the enemy (ie - the guys trying to kill them and their buddies).

Why is this mindset hard to understand?

Enemies or not, they're still killing (murdering, the proper term) human beings. Are you suggesting it's OK to be so blase and happy about murdering human beings?

[Shryke]

Enemies or not, they're still killing (murdering, the proper term) human beings. Are you suggesting it's OK to be so blase and happy about murdering human beings?

Are you suggesting that soldiers should be completely morose every time they engage in combat?

[Relic]

Are you suggesting that soldiers should be completely morose every time they engage in combat?

Taking life should never be trivialized.

[King Nobody]

Are you suggesting that soldiers should be completely morose every time they engage in combat?

Are you suggesting there's a problem with suggesting this?

[awesome possum]

Are you suggesting that soldiers should be completely morose every time they engage in combat?

Are you suggesting that soldiers should be completely elated every time they engage in combat?

Although I disagree that what we saw in that video was "combat."

[Shryke]

Are you suggesting there's a problem with suggesting this?

Sounds like a recipe for a depressed and emotionally unstable group of soldiers.

This is there job. It's what they do. WTF do you expect from them?

Are you suggesting that soldiers should be completely elated every time they engage in combat?

I'm suggesting that there's nothing strange about people doing their job being not-depressed about it.

Although I disagree that what we saw in that video was "combat."

Welcome to war. Combat isn't a 1-on-1 duel with fair rules.

[TheKassi]

Taking life should never be trivialized.

Then don't allow it to become trivial. If you do allow it to be trivial (I.E sending people to engage in multiple killings in the defense of their brothers and sisters in arms several times a week over long periods of time.) it seems petty to complain people treat their routine casually, simply because it is not part of your routine.

[King Nobody]

Sounds like a recipe for a depressed and emotionally unstable group of soldiers.

And sociopaths are emotionally stable? Soldiers shouldn't have a problem pulling the trigger when they need to, but they shouldn't enjoy it, and they shouldn't look for excuses to do it.

"Come on buddy, all you gotta do is pick up a weapon."

This is there job.

This isn't an acceptable way to justify atrocities, just because you're getting paid to murder people doesn't make it right.

[Shryke]

And sociopaths are emotionally stable? Soldiers shouldn't have a problem pulling the trigger when they need to, but they shouldn't enjoy it, and they shouldn't look for excuses to do it.

So how should they, in your opinion, feel about what they do?

This isn't an acceptable way to justify atrocities, just because you're getting paid to murder people doesn't make it right.

Then you have an issue with the use of the military in the first place.

There is a military. Killing people in war time is a big part of their job.

They deal with that fact in many ways. What you hear in this video is one of them.

[King Nobody]

So how should they, in your opinion, feel about what they do?

Bad. They don't need to be sobbing every time they kill someone, but they shouldn't be laughing about it either. They should view what they are doing as a necessary evil, which is what all military action should be, necessary.

Then you have an issue with the use of the military in the first place.

It really depends on how the military is being used.

[Shryke]

Bad. They don't need to be sobbing every time they kill someone, but they shouldn't be laughing about it either. They should view what they are doing as a necessary evil, which is what all military action should be, necessary.

So again, you think they should be morose every time they do their job.

This is a highly unreasonable expectation.