US army murders Reuters journalists and civilians

[awesome possum]

This is a highly unreasonable expectation.

So is murdering people.

[Shryke]

So is murdering people.

War. It involves killing people.

[awesome possum]

Yes, and then figuratively dancing atop the evil vanquished enemy's corpses. Hurrah! We easily killed people from the relatively safety and distance that our advanced technology provides us before confirming that they were even the "bad guys"!

USA!

USA!

USA!

USA!

[Shryke]

Uh huh.

You start a war, you send people to kill other people. The people you send to do the killing in said war are not going to be depressed and mopey about it all the time.

They go out, they do it alot and shit, maybe they are proud of it. They are certainty doing it enough to be at least partially desensitized to it. Especially at the time you are doing it.

So, again, wtf do you expect of people you hired to kill when you send them to do their job?

PS - Your implications of cowardice on the part of the military for "not fighting fair" are laughable and stupid.

[King Nobody]

So again, you think they should be morose every time they do their job.

This is a highly unreasonable expectation.

There are plenty of people who don't enjoy their job. Do you think people enjoy stacking boxes or entering numbers into a computer for 8 hours day? Is it unreasonable to employ people in any job that they don't enjoy? Because if that's what you're saying I would think most employers are very unreasonable people.

Your implications of cowardice on the part of the military for "not fighting fair" are laughable and stupid.

Ask anyone in the military what their opinion of IEDs and the people who use them is.

[TheKassi]

Yes, and then figuratively dancing atop the evil vanquished enemy's corpses. Hurrah! We easily killed people from the relatively safety and distance that our advanced technology provides us before confirming that they were even the "bad guys"!

USA!

USA!

USA!

USA!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aviation_shootdowns_and_accidents_during_the_Iraq_War

Perhaps while you figuratively dancing atop the evil vanquished enemy's corpses, you shouldn't throw stones about figuratively dancing...

[Tarapas Amran]

There are plenty of people who don't enjoy their job. Do you think people enjoy stacking boxes or entering numbers into a computer for 8 hours day? Is it unreasonable to employ people in any job that they don't enjoy? Because if that's what you're saying I would think most employers are very unreasonable people.

Yes, but most sane people at least have moments when they are happy, despite hating their job. And even soldiers will be happy from time to time. And a good thing that is, if every waking minute of their job was a deep, depressive experience I believe no-one would come back sane. We're all human and I see no problem with what they say in that context.

[King Nobody]

Yes, but most sane people at least have moments when they are happy,

Right, and these moments shouldn't be immediately before or after killing someone.

[Sirius]

Bad. They don't need to be sobbing every time they kill someone, but they shouldn't be laughing about it either. They should view what they are doing as a necessary evil, which is what all military action should be, necessary.

Just for the record, we're not inside these soldiers' heads. We don't know what they are thinking or how they feel about their actions. Just because they say something aloud or act outwardly in one way in front of their peers, doesn't mean that that is how they feel inside. Imagine this being your job, and having to go back to base afterwards, and live in close quarters with the other soldiers that carried out this mission with you. I suspect there is not a small number of people who would just put on a "mask" of sorts, so as to make life among their peers easier.

[Tarapas Amran]

Right, and these moments shouldn't be immediately before or after killing someone.

Well, I think you kind get used to it. And they don't sound very happy too me. But neither sad. They sound perfectly normal. You won't stay sane if you can't do your job and not be able to feel normal.

Edit:

And what Sirius said.

[TheKassi]

Just for the record, we're not inside these soldiers' heads. We don't know what they are thinking or how they feel about their actions. Just because they say something aloud or act outwardly in one way in front of their peers, doesn't mean that that is how they feel inside. Imagine this being your job, and having to go back to base afterwards, and live in close quarters with the other soldiers that carried out this mission with you. I suspect there is not a small number of people who would just put on a "mask" of sorts, so as to make life among their peers easier.

The term is bravado.

Even if that isn't the case however, the mind grows accustom to stimuli with saturation. That is nature in action.

Heck, if that wasn't the case ever soldier would come back from war a slavering psychotic.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

Holy shit, we have war crimes on film and an active coverup by our own government and all you people have to talk about is whether the war criminals were laughing or not?

[Shryke]

There are plenty of people who don't enjoy their job. Do you think people enjoy stacking boxes or entering numbers into a computer for 8 hours day? Is it unreasonable to employ people in any job that they don't enjoy? Because if that's what you're saying I would think most employers are very unreasonable people.

Yes, except if you actually stopped for a second to think, you'd realise your position only makes sense if NOBODY enjoyed their job.

And since some people do, why is it strange to think some people enjoy being soldiers?

Ask anyone in the military what their opinion of IEDs and the people who use them is.

There's actually a difference between bombs (indiscriminate and lots of collateral damage) and long range weapons.

[sologdin]

war crimes on film

that's the winning post. there's nothing here to suggest a necessary & proportionate response. where's the motherfucking indictment?

[LugaJetboyGirl]

Everything about this video and the discussion in this thread is so fucked up. It makes me want to vomit and cry at the same time.

[The_BlauerDragon]

Holy shit, we have war crimes on film and an active coverup by our own government and all you people have to talk about is whether the war criminals were laughing or not?

War Crime? I saw nothing about a war crime??? I saw an honest and unfortunate mistake, and an active but entirely un-called-for coverup. Where was the war crime?

[Stalker]

It's important to remember that these guys were protecting a convoy that had already come under fire at the time, not simply flying about looking for targets.

It's also a fairly common tactic of insurgents to rush onto the field to grab back supplies and hide bodies. Hence the firing on the van.

Indeed. Mistakes happen. And in war that may mean people die. It's part of what you accept when you accept violence.

That doesn't answer issues such as the pilots cavalier attitude, firing on wounded or the military trying to cover it up.

[Stego]

This has been happening for YEARS. Decades. The USA has been known to mistake cattle troughs for missles, bombing cattle, farmer, and family into oblivion. And hardly anyone that "matters' says anything. The worst amongst us call it collateral damage, an inevitability of war. I call it murder.

So the pilots are the murderers or the generals that send them or the politicians that order them sent or the corporations that own the politicians?

As soon as war is declared, untold people are doomed to be murdered on all sides. But those pilots aren't murderers. They are simply a misguided few who are trying to do right by listening to lying propagandists.

[jurble]

War Crime? I saw nothing about a war crime??? I saw an honest and unfortunate mistake, and an active but entirely un-called-for coverup. Where was the war crime?

This. They acted on their instincts. Their instincts were wrong. The cover-up was the problem. But war involves killing people. War isn't about equal rules, it's about trying to kill as many of the enemy, and not dying yourselves. Moreover, the idea that every soldier should be some sort of Hurt Locker - emotionally upset dude is nice to think about, but the truth is, killing is easy.

I know marines, and they hate the Hurt Locker. First, it plays into their idea the Army is a bunch of cowards. Second, they enjoy killing people. Honest to god, they love their job. They enlisted to defend their nation, by killing other people. There's no other way to think about it. It sounds so absurd to the rest of us, that people can be so bloodthirsty. We pretend like beserkers and Spartans and other war-lovers were some sort of inexplicable blip of history. But those guys were human too.

Civilians always die. It happens. At least we don't carpet bomb anymore.

[awesome possum]

Uh huh.

You start a war, you send people to kill other people. The people you send to do the killing in said war are not going to be depressed and mopey about it all the time.

They go out, they do it alot and shit, maybe they are proud of it. They are certainty doing it enough to be at least partially desensitized to it. Especially at the time you are doing it.

So, again, wtf do you expect of people you hired to kill when you send them to do their job?

PS - Your implications of cowardice on the part of the military for "not fighting fair" are laughable and stupid.

First, I never sent anyone anywhere, so you can take that line of bullshit and shove it right back where you got it.

Second, can you find me a line anywhere in the Army, Navy, Air Force or Marine rules or code of conduct or any written piece of official literature that says the job of those who enlist is to kill and only kill? Anywhere? Please.

Finally, your implications about my implications are laughable and stupid. You can put that in the same place you returned the line of bullshit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aviation_shootdowns_and_accidents_during_the_Iraq_War

Perhaps while you figuratively dancing atop the evil vanquished enemy's corpses, you shouldn't throw stones about figuratively dancing...

I'm not even sure what you're trying to get at here. So because US forces kill each other and innocents accidentally all the time, this time was A-OK?