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Eradicating "Nice Guy" from your life


lokisnow

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Another great article about this all too common failing for too many guys who think women want want they say they want.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/04/14/mr.nice.guy.backlash/index.html?hpt=C2

"Girls might say they want a nice guy, but what they really want is the cool guy," said Arthur Malov, founder of New York Dating Coach, a relationship consulting agency with primarily male clients. "A jerk is rarely so bad that no one wants to hook up with him."

Now, some single guys are taking steps to avoid being lumped into the nice guy category. Malov's agency, which coaches single men from all over the U.S. and as far away as Japan and Norway, instructs clients to steer away from the polished, predictable image. The dating coach tells men to stop being so available and flexible. He advises the men to leave a little mystery because women, despite what they say, do desire the chase.

Malov says the nice-guy persona is the No. 1 problem cited by his male clients, and he explains why, using the game of poker.

"A lot of nice guys are showing all his cards and saying, 'What should I do?' " he says. "After that, nothing happens."

...

"Realize that women don't want you to hand over your power by being a Mr. Nice Guy in return for their affection, love and attention," said Dan Macon, who runs The Modern Man. "Sure, women want you to show them respect and love, but they also want you to be a man and take charge. If you can't do that, women won't want to be with you."

...

"The dichotomy isn't between good guys or bad guys," he explained. "It's between weak guys and strong guys."

...

Academic studies have reaffirmed that women prefer the bad boy archetype over the nice guy. A 2008 study at New Mexico State University in Las Cruces examined how college students perceived "dark" traits such as thrill-seeking behavior, deceitfulness and narcissism. The study found the female students preferred the males with these traits.

...

Despite this attitude, some dating coaches say that women should keep an open mind. The negative stereotypes of a nice guy aren't always true; the men aren't always timid or easy pushovers. While the nice guys may not be as forward or loud, their selfless personality can be valuable to a lasting relationship, they say.

Hmm, well I've never had a problem being timid or a pushover in a relationship, I don't defer my interests, they're always clearly made known because being assertive has never been an issue for me. I like going out on nice dates because I really love fine-dining and going to cultural events like museums, concerts etc. On the otherhand, I'm scrupulously honest, not thrill-seeking, and while I'm probably average in the narcissism range, I am always careful to make sure that narcissistic thoughts and behavior aren't seen by others.

Clearly I have some work to do. First element to work on: tell lies, lots. Happily I was already joining a football team/league to play in on saturdays. I love the sport, probably good for my image as well. Element two to work on: Brag on that shit, often.

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Guest Raidne

"A March 2009 study found that college age men frequently reference a meme they call the 'crazy-hot scale.' Reports indicate that real world effects include willingness to date a female who professes to have regularly drank her ex-boyfriend's blood as part of a Satanic ritual as long as the subject bears a striking resemblence to Angelina Jolie."

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The actual body of research done on the topic of evolutionary fitness and the role that antisocial behavior plays in attraction/survival is deeper than the CNN article suggests.

Personally, while I hate to encourage people to use The Mystery Method or similar PUA "games", a lot of it really does work. The more extreme stuff has a very high success rate with a significant minority of women.

The rest of the stuff in the article seems to boil down to "Don't be the creepy 'nice' guy, and confidence is attractive". In general that's good advice.

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You can be all kinds of manly and still nice, just as you can be a nice guy without groveling. There is a big difference between being respectful, polite, reasonably accommodating ect, and being a door mat supplicating one's own self in the hopes of getting some.

Many women like Gentlemen, and even a good deal of old fashion chivalry, so long as it isn't coupled with asinine chauvinism. Few enjoy the guy who's every kindness is a desperate plea for intercourse.

It is kind of like the “I don't want you to do the dishes, I want you to want to do the dishes” cliché popularized by many modern stand up comics. Many women want a guy who is naturally kind, respectful and so forth, not a guy who is acting in a way he believes will increase his chances of getting a woman into bed.

I really am not surprised to read that most of the men asking a dating coach for advice on how to pick up chicks are falling into the second category.

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Be Don Draper. That's what women want. I don't blame them; I kind of want him too and I'm homophobic.

Actually, I think just looking like Don Draper is all you need.

For those who don't and never will be anything remotely like Draper, well, that's just part of the cruel story of evolution. Not every seed sown is meant to blossom. Sorry.

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The actual body of research done on the topic of evolutionary fitness and the role that antisocial behavior plays in attraction/survival is deeper than the CNN article suggests.

Has any news reporter ever accurately reported on scientific research in any appreciable detail? It reminds me of those giddy "Invisibility Cloak" articles that science reporters report on pretty much every year; they lack any detail as to what the technology actually is but make up for it numerous (and probably inaccurate) references to Harry Potter.

Similarly, we get this whole "nice guys" / "bad boys" "research" pretty much nonstop. I can't tell you how many times I've heard someone talk about this or write about it, and they inevitably rely on poorly-recollected confabulations based loosely on poorly-written and inaccurate articles written in untrustworthy Internet publications.

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Does anyone know of any similar studies that look at longer-term relationships? These (to my knowledge) have all been about essentially hooking up or early dating; very few have had anything to do with lasting relationships or success in them.

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To quote the ad copy of that dead guy who did a one-armed push up when he won an Oscar for City Slickers:

"Confidence is sexy, don't you think?"

Nice guys who are confident get it done.

Nice guys who are wishy-washy get none.

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Does anyone know of any similar studies that look at longer-term relationships? These (to my knowledge) have all been about essentially hooking up or early dating; very few have had anything to do with lasting relationships or success in them.

Being nice appears to be better :) :

The present investigation tested the relations between the Big Five dimensions of personality and the marital relationships of over 400 couples using both observational and questionnaire data. Four major findings emerged from these analyses. First, self-reports of neuroticism were positively correlated with negative interactions and negatively correlated with global evaluations of the marriage. Second, self-reports of agreeableness were negatively correlated with negative interactions and generally positively correlated with global evaluations of the marriage. Third, self-reports of openness were negatively correlated with observer reports of negative interactions. Fourth, self-reports of openness by wives were positively correlated with global reports of sexual satisfaction. These findings suggest that agreeableness and openness deserve increased attention as significant correlates of close relationships. Discussion emphasizes the importance of intrapersonal factors for understanding marital relationships.

(Donnellan et al., 2004)

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So...basically the generic goal is to act like an asshole to get people to be interested in you, and then actually be a fairly decent person afterwards.

NO WONDER the board produces such happy relationships.

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