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Eradicating "Nice Guy" from your life


lokisnow

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So in these 3 sentences you've managed to tell women the world over what they think about 'nice guys' and insult their personality traits AND genitalia with the lovely phrase "biggest penis-having vagina I know". I love (where love=hate with the firey passion of a thousand burning suns) how a vagina is less than a penis on some random scale of coolness.

N

Actually, I think vagina's are really cool. They are way cooler than penises on my scale. I think that you are not understanding the gist of the argument, which was that the whole nice guy idea is code for 'not interested' but then we get these little articles and anecdote that create this sort of archetype of 'nice guy' that I personally don't think exists very often in the wild. But men and women alike run with this idea and it gets addressed as if it is the #1 thing wrong with men who have trouble meeting women. That they are too nice, which I don't really buy. I was really not trying to make a statement about how cool penises were vs. vagina's, or commenting on the intelligence or personality of 'women over the world'. If you dislike the terminology I used, sorry about that. I think that you and I will probably just always have a hard time understanding each other.

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Guest Raidne

Hot 19yr old chicks?

Precisely.

What's the problem?

My point, laid out in full, is that this "study" we're talking about in this article is based on data from college age women. And from that data, we're talking about what all women like. If we did the same for men, based on your answer, we'd get a headline like "All Men Only Interested In Women Under Drinking Age," which, for most guys, would be pretty unfair.

I mean, I remember what I was like when I was "college age." I was not interested in dating the kind of guy I'd eventually be interested in marrying, and I knew it.

I think this "women hate nice guys thing" is a total myth. 19 year old girls don't want to date their future husbands - they want to flirt with hot guys with behaviors that make them unmarriageable, and generally have a good time without being all serious.

I know nothing about this other kind of nice guy that people are always posting various links about and this Board is the first time I've heard of the phenomena, so I have nothing to say about that, except that I wish we'd call it something else, since the guys in question are clearly anything but nice.

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Intense guy =/= asshole

"nice guy" often = boring which in turn =/= intense, therefore "nice guy" =/= non-asshole

Or something like that.

Intensity & passion often means "great" whereas anyone who acts like they are a doormat and live solely to please others often means "run away! run away!"

What I can't understand is why anyone bothers with CNN anymore. o.O

PS I apologise for my barely coherent, broken posting today. It's April 15th and I'm fried.

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Ehh, college women are no longer in the retinue of women I would be willing to date or have serious other-than platonic relations with. So I can't really bring myself to give 1 shit about what a random sampling things, let alone 2 shits. and ftr if a person you are considering as a partner in a personal sense can't accept you for you, fuck them(but not really).

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Precisely.

I mean, I remember what I was like when I was "college age." I was not interested in dating the kind of guy I'd eventually be interested in marrying, and I knew it.

I think this "women hate nice guys thing" is a total myth. 19 year old girls don't want to date their future husbands - they want to flirt with hot guys with behaviors that make them unmarriageable, and generally have a good time without being all serious.

I completely agree with this. On the other hand though, these college age women will go after these guys and after they get crapped on YET AGAIN they complain and complain about how they just can't meet a nice guy. Yet they fall for the same tricks over and over again. Either you want a nice guy or you don't, so it's strange when you see so many women close to you complain about how they'd like to just meet a nice guy for once but they still chase after the hot guys with the bad boy attitude. Maybe it's a transition.

A good friend of mine the other day told me that her boyfriend was too nice. After dating a string of assholes she's got a guy who's faithful, treats her great, and he isn't exactly a pushover either. But she says to me, "I kind of feel bad, but sometimes I just wish he'd be a bit of a bad guy". Which leads me to an opinion. I don't think it's that women don't want nice guys, it's just that some guys are too nice. You've got to have at least some level of drama and challenge in a relationship, otherwise it becomes too routine and thus boring. This goes for men and women. I like a woman who's got a bit of fire in her. Doesn't mean I like bitchy women, I just like independent women who like to stir the pot from time to time.

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Guest Raidne

After dating a string of assholes she's got a guy who's faithful, treats her great, and he isn't exactly a pushover either. But she says to me, "I kind of feel bad, but sometimes I just wish he'd be a bit of a bad guy".

I guess the next time someone says something like that to someone, you, personally, automatically become obligated to pry out of them whatever in hell they're talking about for the sake of what will no doubt soon be our 212th Board discussion on the nature of this subject.

I suspect that it means "wow, he's really nice, but he just has no sex appeal for me." There are people who we respect and think are decent people, and then we think there are people who have sex appeal. Sometimes, they actually coexist in the same person. And those are the people we should try and date. But the opposite sex is always pointing out all this messing around with the not-so-respectable people with sex appeal as though it's really any different from being friends with the respectable guy that you're not attracted to. Or girl. Because it's all the same.

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I guess the next time someone says something like that to someone, you, personally, automatically become obligated to pry out of them whatever in hell they're talking about for the sake of what will no doubt soon be our 212th Board discussion on the nature of this subject.

I suspect that it means "wow, he's really nice, but he just has no sex appeal for me." There are people who we respect and think are decent people, and then we think there are people who have sex appeal. Sometimes, they actually coexist in the same person. And those are the people we should try and date. But the opposite sex is always pointing out all this messing around with the not-so-respectable people with sex appeal as though it's really any different from being friends with the respectable guy that you're not attracted to. Or girl. Because it's all the same.

That's kind of what I was saying. When somebody's too nice, they have no sex appeal. There's no passion, no chemistry. It is quite annoying when women constantly complain about how they can't find a guy, but continuously go after the assholes, but it is equally annoying listening to the nice guys continuously complain about how they women won't give them the time of day. They need to quit dancing around the lines of what they think may offend or upset a woman and just state how they feel without being so damn awkward or scared of rejection. Life is full of rejection, move on and try again. Some people don't get that....

On the same level, I know too many guys who complain about how they can't meet any women who they can carry on an intellectual conversation with, yet they go after the hips,legs, and ass every time without making much of an attempt to go for a woman that's got something upstairs.

Most of this stuff can go back to evolution and the instincts that still drive our decisions no matter how much we like to think we've evolved beyond them.

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Hm...as someone who was recently a college girl, I can attest to the "he's too nice" idea.

I was in a situation with one of the my friends. Some of you might be familiar with it after I whinged about it endlessly for nearly a year. Long story short, one of my best friends and I got involved despite the fact that he had a serious girlfriend of 4 years. And it was drama. And he kind of treated me like crap, but not like he was a total asshole, just in the case where you're cheating on someone you're probably treating both parties kind of like crap. And this drama consumed a LOT of my time and energy. I spent SO much time crying about it, only to be SO happy when things were going well...and it's addicting! It really is. According to a book I (later) read, this kind of thing is positive reinforcement on a variable ratio scale or something. IE, my behavior sometimes led to really good feelings/experiences, but it wasn't every time. So I just kept doing the same things hoping that this time would be the time it would be happy. Like playing slots.

But needless to say, playing slots with one's life isn't entertaining for all that long. At the height of this whole mess, I met the guy who I am now married to. He was super sweet, totally into me, and entirely TOO NICE. I was attracted to him, I liked him, but I really wasn't interested in dating him because it seemed kind of boring. Fast forward a couple months, I finally grow up and realize I want OUT of the situation I had been in. I get some perspective, realize that I'm an idiot for being attracted to guys who bring drama, and tell A. that I want to go on a date with him. Well, things go pretty well from there because we're married now.

So I would say there is some truth to the "women don't like genuinely nice guys" idea, but I'd say it's more like "sometimes immature women don't always like genuinely nice guys because of their own personal issues" and "some guys think they're nice but they're NOT, and women generally don't like that." And then these two ideas overlap to form this idea that every woman actually WANTS to be treated like crap and that the nice guys out there will never catch a break.

I hope this made some sort of sense, cause it feels a little rambly. :)

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So, you say most women want bad boys? Most women are idiots.

Not that men are much better, though.

Being nice (really, really nice) is one of the biggest reasons I'm with my boyfriend, and it's been 5 years since we got together. Seeing the relationships around me, I know for a fact what a treasure is a fundamentally decent man these days (with appropriate intellect and interests similar to mine to boot). BTW, I was 18 when we met, so I guess I totally don't fit this research :)

I can understand liking bad boy types in fiction, though. Sometimes, I fall victim to this myself. But real life is a completely different story.

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Guest Raidne

That's kind of what I was saying. When somebody's too nice, they have no sex appeal.

I couldn't agree less. For one, it's a subjective thing. For another, it has nothing to do with niceness. Certainly there are guys who have sex appeal that are also nice. We just generally think of other adjectives to describe them - nice is not their only positive personality trait.

On the same level, I know too many guys who complain about how they can't meet any women who they can carry on an intellectual conversation with, yet they go after the hips,legs, and ass every time without making much of an attempt to go for a woman that's got something upstairs.

Believe it or not, there are attractive women who also have something to say out there. It's not an either/or. But perhaps these friends of yours find themselves in the position where they have to choose one or the other? Maybe they should engage in a little self-improvement. ;)

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Believe it or not, there are attractive women who also have something to say out there. It's not an either/or. But perhaps these friends of yours find themselves in the position where they have to choose one or the other? Maybe they should engage in a little self-improvement. ;)

Definitely. I do think though that on average the women without something upstairs advertise these other assets in a much more obvious way, and shallow men often use these as a basis to form a dead-end relationship. And I use to be the same way. People mature beyond these stages with time...some people anyway. Yes my friends could use some self-improvement.

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I didn't have time to read the whole thread, but the OP article is ridiculous. The whole premise is flawed in that if you need a dating service- you don't know why women aren't dating you. I have known dozens, maybe even hundreds of guys who whine and moan that women don't date them because they are "nice guys." This is bullshit. So many people call what is actually a lack of confidence being "too nice." Jerks seem attractive because they seem confident, and pretty much everyone is attracted to confidence. You can be nice AND confident at the same time, and people will respond to that. You can't expect others to like you if you don't seem to think you're worthy of it. I have never met anyone whose problem in general is that they are nice. Not once. Sure, a lot of women like the chase, a lot of women don't need to be treated very respectfully- but the reason they're not into you is that you don't act like you think they should be.

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Very true Kay. But nice guys don't necessarily always lack confidence. A lot of guys I know, who are nice guys, don't approach women or hit on women because they are trying to respect women. They don't want to intrude and they don't want to give off unwanted advances. We hear all the time from women how they just want to be left alone, or they can't stand the constant attention they receive. Yet we live in a society where the man is still expected to make the first move, and deciding whether a woman is open to an advance is a difficult thing for many to figure out. Sometimes it's a fear of rejection, but other times it's a matter of being too cautious about respect. At the same time, those who don't fear rejection at all, or are very confident, are naturally more likely to be assholes(on the average). I think it takes some lack of empathy in a way to simply go on from one rejection to another until a person sees some success. And generally an abundance of confidence leads to smoothness or ease in the approach, which is too often a by-product of lots and lots of experience in the game and likely the things they're saying to a woman are the same things they've said to 1000 other women. And that can be a sign that they've been picking up on a lot of women and you're definitely not going to be the last.

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So I would say there is some truth to the "women don't like genuinely nice guys" idea, but I'd say it's more like "sometimes immature women don't always like genuinely nice guys because of their own personal issues" and "some guys think they're nice but they're NOT, and women generally don't like that." And then these two ideas overlap to form this idea that every woman actually WANTS to be treated like crap and that the nice guys out there will never catch a break.

It's definitely something that both sexes do. I'm attracted to 'edgy' women. Because that's the relationship model that I grew up with. I tend to 'attract' women who like my stability, but are addicted to instability.

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Nice guys aren't necessarily needy, but needy guys can be genuinely nice and not closet jerks and it's easy to label their behavior as "too nice".

When I was 19, I dated nice needy guy. He was the guy who brought roses to the first date. I had never met anyone like him before, so I didn't recognize the red flag, I just thought that he was really really... well, nice. He did have some issues, but he wasn't the stereotypical "nice guy" who thinks that being nice means that he deserves to sleep with you and he wasn't resentful and bitter toward women who wouldn't date him. But he was incredibly stifling and clingy. Now that I have some perspective, I'd say that the problem was that we had different ideas of personal space. Being younger and inside the relationship though, it did seem like too much niceness, since he was genuinely a pretty good guy who just got really really involved with girlfriends.

I don't know if it's an odd ending or not, but he seems to be happily married to a woman who seems perfectly content to do everything with him all the time and likes that he's over the top with affection.

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