Is the Black Fish Gay?

[Angrybeard]

I can't recall having seen anything that led me to believe that the Blackfish was gay (although being gay might account for why he is considered a "black sheep" of the family). The sense I got of him was that he was "all business, all the time", and had no patience for such frivolities as marriage and offspring and the like. Basically, the Blackfish is so hard that he is immune to the vices that weaken other men.

[Baramos]

The puns are reminding of those two dwarfs at Joffrey's wedding.

I don't think he's gay only because when Martin wants us to know a character's gay he goes out of his way to drop a ton of hints like with Renly/Loras, or just tells us outright like with Lyn Corbray.

The Blackfish just seems like a stereotypical loner badass character. He is Clint Eastwood. Eastwood hardly ever had a female lead/love interest but nobody thought The Man with No Name was gay.

Basically I think people see the Blackfish as gay out of something unrelated to any evidence given in the actual books.

[Night's Scotch]

if we followed the same logic, we could say benjen stark is/was gay.

i believe that the simplest answer is often the correct one.

in this case the simplest answer is that there are some characters whose sexual preference is irelevant to the story.

agreed, and when a sexual preference does matter, GRRM is sure to let us know: Renly/Loras, Lyn Corbray's loyalty bought with "gold and boys and promises," Varys' missing equipment, etc. Maege Mormont sounds like a lesbian with her battle axe, but having children of her own makes that less likely. I think Brynden's refusal to marry is just his own little rebellion against convention and a way to piss Hoster off. The refusal to ever marry is a part of it. Refusing to marry Hoster's match and then marrying someone else could be seen as a further insult, but refusing that proposed match and then making a pledge to never marry...neither someone Hoster chooses, nor choosing someone himself seems less offensive to me. He doesn't come across as gay, just stubborn.

Barristan the Buggerer? I don't see it. Take a kid that's been fighting since he was 10 years old and already covered himself in glory and give him a choice: A: wife and a keep and family and die in your bed at 80 years old. B: Become one of the most elite Knightly Orders in the Kingdom, live a life of intrigue and danger, and someone like Old Nan will be telling children about your exploits long after you've spilled your last drop of blood. Sounds like a pretty simple choice for somebody known as Barristan the Bold.

[Howdyphillip]

I certainly hope he is... Just so they have an excuse to leave him in the HBO show. I have heard rumors that they may be cutting the character for the show, and they will need a new gay interest after next season. He is one of my favorites, and I would love to see him represented on the screen.

Other then that, I express the same opinion as a few others. I do not really care where he sticks his lance unless GRRM decides to use it to advance a plot.

[iheartseverus]

Barristan the Buggerer? I don't see it. Take a kid that's been fighting since he was 10 years old and already covered himself in glory and give him a choice: A: wife and a keep and family and die in your bed at 80 years old. B: Become one of the most elite Knightly Orders in the Kingdom, live a life of intrigue and danger, and someone like Old Nan will be telling children about your exploits long after you've spilled your last drop of blood. Sounds like a pretty simple choice for somebody known as Barristan the Bold.

LOL, this description reminds me of a cartoon drawing I saw years ago. A simple stick-figure of a man, a woman, a little boy, a little girl and a dog. Behind them was a nice house with a picket fence, flower garden and a car in the driveway. The caption was: James Bond In Hell. :lol:

This is our Barristan and probably, our Blackfish.

[Timbits]

He could have married and just done his duty once a year (like Stannis, I believe) and kept gay lovers on the side.

So wait.. are you saying Stannis is gay? *mind is blown* I never considered this before.

[Dolorous J]

I'm sure after the raging success of his brother Edmure's wedding , any reservations Blackfish may have once had about marriages is now gone.

[iheartseverus]

I'm sure after the raging success of his brother Edmure's wedding , any reservations Blackfish may have once had about marriages is now gone.

Isn't Edmure the Blackfish's nephew? Edmure is Catelyn's brother. Bryndon (Blackfish) is Catelyn's father's brother, no? Catelyn's and Edmure's uncle? Or, did I dream all this, make it all up?

[Dolorous J]

Isn't Edmure the Blackfish's nephew? Edmure is Catelyn's brother. Bryndon (Blackfish) is Catelyn's father's brother, no? Catelyn's and Edmure's uncle? Or, did I dream all this, make it all up?

no that's correct. my mistake.

[iheartseverus]

no that's correct. my mistake.

Whew. Good.

[olennaredyne]

Lol at the guys rushing to scream about how the Blackfish's sexuality doesn't matter and it's his "own business", like we're supposed to respect the privacy of a fictional character. Of course that's not a big deal, but duh, this is what a message board is for. To speculate.

[Lilibetp]

Maybe I'm just jumping to conclusions but that whole feud between him and Hoster because he wouldn't marry someone seemed like there was more to it.

I kind of wondered whether he might have had some sort of "accident."

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Obligatory...

Oops. How I can post images?

[pow]

I don't think we should assume anything.

[Kate Poem]

It must be some sad story... Catelyn said her father: "He'll never marry, you know that."

Maybe he is gay and his lover died... or maybe he loved a girl in the secret because... I don't know why, she was poor, she was married etc.etc. and she died?

We know nothing, readers!

[Golden Skull]

I think it really comes down to the reader's interpretation of the character. The Blackfish doesn't need to be mincing around with his rainbow guard to be gay, but, conversely, just because he's never married doesn't mean that he is gay. Unless GRRM gives us an answer it really is just in our minds.

[The Non-Human]

Not wanting to marry is not a synonym of homosexuality. Some people just are not interested in that facet of life. And there are no rumors about him circulating either, as is the case with Renly and co.

He just lives by the sword, as they say.

[Maester Luwin]

I think not.

He is just a warrior to the core.

[A Maidens Fantasy]

So every man who isn't married is gay? He wasn't the heir to Riverrun, he really didn't have a need to marry.

But Hoster was right, he did have to marry for the sake of the family name. Look how close Hoster was to not getting a male heir! And his wife died giving birth to Edmure. And Edmure is hardly in a situation where it seems likely he will get to father any heirs himself. This is a medieval society, child death is staggering even among the nobles. Penicilin has not been invented (even though they use a lot of moldy bread on wounds, you have to be REALLY lucky to find the right kind of mold strain). Then there is epidemics like the great spring sickness that wiped out entire families. If you want to make sure that your house stays in business, you have to do like Walder Frey (well, except for the red wedding :laugh: Damn, never thought I would have something good to say about old Walder). I've always felt that one of the most unrealistic (and yes, I know it is fantasy) things about the Starks, is that they have 5 healthy kids, not a single one of which have died of a childrens disease.

So put in context the Blackfish's refusal to marry is a huge thing in my book, and I would love to find out WHY!

Sandor Clegane is alive and could beat Garlan Tyrell's ass any day. :fencing:

:agree: Yup, even with a bum leg and all!

He's broken more than a few lances, if you know what I mean.

Sounds painful, are you implying that the Blackfish is into S/M? Lets make a new thread to discuss that :laugh:

[Domenceus]

I think Brynden's refusal to marry is just his own little rebellion against convention and a way to piss Hoster off. The refusal to ever marry is a part of it. Refusing to marry Hoster's match and then marrying someone else could be seen as a further insult, but refusing that proposed match and then making a pledge to never marry...neither someone Hoster chooses, nor choosing someone himself seems less offensive to me. He doesn't come across as gay, just stubborn.

Agreed. While most people in Westeros probably march in lock-step and do what they're supposed to do regarding marriage (not for love, for politics, done from duty), having one or two characters who for whatever reason defy that practice keeps things interesting. There will always be a few black sheepfish who rebel in any society, and seeing what happens to them as a result of their choices can say a lot about them and their society.

As someone who doesn't wish to biologically reproduce and who hasn't found anyone up to my standards (but who is definitely straight), I empathize with him in this. That's a great thing about characters like these - because they're ambiguous, they are easy for different types of people to appreciate and connect with.