Bay Area students wear Stars-&-Stripes to class

[TerraPrime]

If such a flag would be considered provocative to someone celebrating Cinco de Mayo, then I'd suggest there is something about Cinco de Mayo that is a bit different from more innocuous celebrations of ethnicity.

Perhaps it has something to do with the prevailing antagonism against Mexicans in the larger context of illegal immigration laws like the one in AZ?

[Tempra]

Perhaps it has something to do with the prevailing antagonism against Mexicans in the larger context of illegal immigration laws like the one in AZ?

It seems like that cuts in favor of protecting this speech.

[baxus]

Five people wearing similar t-shirts and identical bandannas?

then, by all means, let's suspend their basketball team!

there's 12 of them, and they wear identical t-shirts AND SHORTS, and they do it on a daily basis ;)

Re: Everyone

If you just "can't understand" why the Mexican-American students might find the action provocative and offensive, then perhaps you can imagine a gentile being invited to a Rosh Hashana celebration bringing a rack of BBQ ribs to the host's party? Or perhaps someone waving the Japanese colonial flag during a Chinese celebration of ending the WWII conflict?

these 5 guys haven't come to a party, they came to school

if there was such a thing as a school uniform then i'd be all for some form of punishment

as it is, the worst case scenario is that they are jerks

that would hardly be grounds for suspension, would it?

and can you imagine chinese people celebrating anniversary of the WWII ending in japan?

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

It seems like that cuts in favor of protecting this speech.

I agree with those who think free speech doesn't apply in schools the same as it does outside. But I also don't see why the school should treat statements against the Arizona law differently from statements against.

But I don't think the different reaction on Cinco de Mayo has much to do with Arizona anyway.

[Myshkin]

Of course it's not wrong for them to celebrate their holiday. I wish them all the best. But I don't understand how wearing an American flag is a "racist statement".

And just what statement do you think they were trying to make? It's already been said, but it bears repeating; "few people here have really wanted to say what that statement is outright, other than mislabeling as patriotism".

I know you from this board, and I know you're not a dense person, so I can only imagine that you are intentionally ignoring the repeated explanations about just why this might be offensive. To repeat, it is NOT the American flag that is offensive; it is the USE of the American flag to make a racially charged statement that is offensive.

ETA: Just to be clear, I don't think anyone should be punished for making a political statement, even if it is racist. But that doesn't mean that I don't think they should be called out for it. These kids are complete douchebags. Should they be arrested? No fucking way. Should they be suspended? That's up to the school. Should they be ridiculed? Absolutely.

[Tempra]

I agree with those who think free speech doesn't apply in schools the same as it does outside. But I also don't see why the school should treat statements against the Arizona law differently from statements against.

But I don't think the different reaction on Cinco de Mayo has much to do with Arizona anyway.

I agree that free speech should not be the same in schools as it is outside of schools, but since it is in California, the kids clearly had their rights violated unless the school can argue that the American flag was used to intimidate Mexican-Americans. I don't think any facts (that i've heard) give rise to this inference.

[CloudFlare]

First the came for the Confederate Flag and I said nothing because I was a Yankee.

Then they came for the American Flag...

[Shryke]

Was wearing the shirts done to stir up a reaction from other students?

Probably.

But here's the thing: WHO FUCKING CARES? Who cares if it offends some people? It shouldn't.

Why should it matter that a bunch of people get butt-hurt over someone wearing an American flag t-shirt. Why should we care enough about them being offended to coddle them and restrict the right of others to wear whatever they want?

Saying these kids shouldn't wear those shirts is like saying the Gay Pride Parade is bad because it's got 2 guys making out on a float in the middle of the street to deliberately provoke those offended by gay people.

Fuck the offended. Bunch of whiners.

[El-ahrairah]

And just what statement do you think they were trying to make? It's already been said, but it bears repeating; "few people here have really wanted to say what that statement is outright, other than mislabeling as patriotism".

I know you from this board, and I know you're not a dense person, so I can only imagine that you are intentionally ignoring the repeated explanations about just why this might be offensive. To repeat, it is NOT the American flag that is offensive; it is the USE of the American flag to make a racially charged statement that is offensive.

Very well, might you give an example of how to display an American flag in a non-racially charged manner on May 5th?

[pika]

Mostly it's just a day for white people to drink tequila.

I don't get it.. whats wrong with helping the Plueblans celebrate their victory over France with tequila?

[dolorouseddwasright]

I think the students may have been wearing the shirts to get some sort of response. But to suspend them because they were wearing American flag shirts in the US on Cinco De Mayo, which is a Mexican holiday is wrong. We are the US, why would it be offensive for our students to wear American flag t-shirts (apart from the regular offense of wearing the flag as an item of apparel)? Cinco De Mayo is a Mexican holiday, not American. I remember reading about people waving Mexican flags in the US when the US and Mexican soccer teams were playing a game. Was that considered offensive? I don't want our kids to be punished because they wore a shirt with our flag on it. Would some of the Mexican-American kids been punished if they wore a Mexican flag shirt on Fourth of July? If these kids claim to be American why would they be offended by American flags? Especially since I think Cinco De Mayo was a celebration of a fight against the French. Can't we all just get along and hate the French? They eat frog's legs and snails. We should all ally against this gastronomic crime.

Seriously, American kids in American schools getting punished for wearing American flags on their clothes is weak. This school is wrong.

[Kat]

Very well, might you give an example of how to display an American flag in a non-racially charged manner on May 5th?

Since you're undoubtedly being deliberately dense and/or are ignorant of what racial politics are like out here, displaying the American flag on any flagpole at school would not be racially charged. Nor would having the flag up anywhere where it normally is.

Otherwise, I pretty much agree with Myshkin on all points stated.

Frankly, as a white person, I should not be surprised that there are still embarrassing white teenagers in the Bay Area. But they embarrass me just as much now as some of my fellow students did when I was in high school.

[Lady Blackfish]

It's not the American flags themselves that probably bother the students, it's the likelihood that it was intended to offend and provoke. Among young kids who are schoolmates, it's just not very nice, and I find the tense response of the students understandable. I disagree with the school's actions, but I think it was in response to the intentions.

[kairparavel]

But how do you monitor intentions? They didn't deface school property or start a fight.

And I don't pretend to not understand what they were doing.

But the precedent has now been set. And I suspect at some point even more kids will show up in Stars and Stripes as some act of solidarity. And it won't be Cinqo de Mayo then. Will it still potentially be an act of provocation if it happens on say May 12th?

[Tempra]

But how do you monitor intentions? They didn't deface school property or start a fight.

And I don't pretend to not understand what they were doing.

But the precedent has now been set. And I suspect at some point even more kids will show up in Stars and Stripes as some act of solidarity. And it won't be Cinqo de Mayo then. Will it still potentially be an act of provocation if it happens on say May 12th?

This. It is quite amazing how fast people jump to conclusions and assume the worst.

[Galactus]

But how do you monitor intentions? They didn't deface school property or start a fight.

And I don't pretend to not understand what they were doing.

But the precedent has now been set. And I suspect at some point even more kids will show up in Stars and Stripes as some act of solidarity. And it won't be Cinqo de Mayo then. Will it still potentially be an act of provocation if it happens on say May 12th?

The school has to make a judgement call.

[TrackerNeil]

From the article:

"I think it's absolutely ridiculous," Julie Fagerstrom, Maciel's mom, said. "All they were doing was displaying their patriotic nature. They're expressing their individuality."

Although I find this whole issue a bit silly, and I think the school probably went too far, let's dispense with the ridiculous notion that these boys were being patriotic. This wasn't about patriotism or individuality. These kids went looking for trouble and they found it, period. That being said, I don't know if the school should punish them for acting like jingoistic douchebags.

[Lady Blackfish]

But how do you monitor intentions?

Well, that's why I don't agree with the school's actions. You can't make it stick. I guess they knew better than I do about just how close it was to breaking out into hostilities, they probably have to play it by ear and theoretically I could agree that there's some point at which it would be better to act pre-emptively. But I can't tell if that was the case, and it seems like it's just feeding into the reaction the provocateurs wanted in the first place.

[Galactus]

I'd simply argue that the school are within their rights to make these kinds of judgement calls. Occasionally these will be silly and over-the-top, but the school has a right, and a duty, to ensure the safety of their students.

[kairparavel]

let's dispense with the ridiculous notion that these boys were being patriotic. This wasn't about patriotism or individuality. These kids went looking for trouble and they found it, period. That being said, I don't know if the school should punish them for acting like jingoistic douchebags.

Again, I don't think it was about patriotism. I think it was to incite.

You do. Others do. But until those kids actually come out and say they were, it's all speculation on our part on their intent.

No matter how obvious it is to us, it's still not definitive.

And it's sets a scary precedent at the school, which will force them to look at all kinds of issues that weren't necessarily there before. But they've already made one decision on intent, so the door will be open for them to look at more, if it's brought up.

Race. Sexism. Homophobia. All kinds of stuff.