"Ethnic studies" banned in AZ

[pika]

I rather think that was taught becuase it, you know, happened.

FLOW - different perspectives on history. Yes, its better.

Yes of course it happened, But don't make a bunch of 10 year olds feel guilty about something they had nothing to do with.

[The Progressive]

if only there's a national standard on US history curriculum so that it's not subjected to the whim of zealot school boards.

And some federal agency to enforce it.

[potsherds]

Yes of course it happened, But don't make a bunch of 10 year olds feel guilty about something they had nothing to do with.

Oh, but they do have something to do with it. All the privileges accorded to white people in this country developed in the ways that it did due to the history of this country. White people benefit from past and present racism continuously. It's impossible not to enjoy special privileges if you're white. Being made aware of the impact that history has on the present is necessary. I'll take the guilt, it's the least I can do, since I enjoy a privileged position in this society. Better yet though, what we need to be teaching those children is responsibility for continued progress in this country, and anger at the past and the present is a necessary component.

Edited to add emphasis.

[Datepalm]

Yes of course it happened, But don't make a bunch of 10 year olds feel guilty about something they had nothing to do with.

So you have three options -

Whitewash it and make everyone who's not a white kid feel, perfectly accurately, that they're being callousely brushed over and ignored for the sake of the comfort of the dominant group.

Stop making those white kids identify with this so strongly. Make them stop thinking of themselves as members of the same culture that did that - so don't teach them about the revolution or Colombus or the pilgrims. Or maybe no culture wants to give up its history.

Or you could attempt to show all the streams of history, the good and the bad, everyones, and recognize that some groups have a more difficult history and make an extra effort to make those people feel that their history is acknowledged, without having to turn white history into Guiltfest 101.

[pika]

Oh, but they do have something to do with it. All the privileges accorded to white people in this country developed in the ways that it did due to the history of this country. White people benefit from past and present racism continuously. It's impossible not to enjoy special privileges if you're white. Being made aware of the impact that history has on the present is necessary. I'll take the guilt, it's the least I can do, since I enjoy a privileged position in this society. Better yet though, what we need to be teaching those children is responsibility for continued progress in this country, and anger at the past and the present is a necessary component.

Edited to add emphasis.

No, I refuse steadfastly to take responsibility for that. I don't accept the guilt, Or the Responsibility, and as a result of people like you trying to force me to feel guilty, I've developed an overwhelming case of the "that must have sucked to be them"'s.

And by the way, I'm still waiting for my privileges to kick in. I want to know exactly what they are so I'll know when I get them.

[Celtigo]

I'll add my voice to the ones saying we did a lot of work and read a lot of material on minority ethnic experiences in America when I was in school. Takagi's "A Different Mirror" and Howard Zinn's "A people's history of the United States", and "Lies My Teacher Taught Me" were both read alongside a more "mainstream" textbook. We covered books in English like To Kill A Mockingbird, Uncle Tom's Cabin, and Farewell to Manzaar, and poems from the Nez Perce tribe. We read stories from the Chumash and Miwok tribes and did extensive studies on the Spanish Missions and Vaqueros in California and countless other examples I could prattle on about. Could it have been done better? Sure. But I certainly think American History is not whitewashed in a fairly large number of school districts in this country.

And before the ad hominem referenced up thread is invoked, my mom's side of the family is descended from Slaves and Cherokee in Georgia so I'm hardly invested in defending privilege or the white establishment.

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

rabbits, here's a place to start.

All credit to Peggy McIntosh:

1. I can, if I wish, arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

2. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area that I can afford and in which I would want to live.

3. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

4. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

5. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

6. When I am told about our national heritage or about “civilization”, I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

7. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

8. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

9. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods that fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser’s shop and find someone who can deal with my hair.

10. Whether I use checks, credit cards, or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

11. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

12. I can swear, or dress in second-hand clothes or not answer letters without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty, or the illiteracy of my race.

13. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.

14. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

15. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

16. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color, who constitute the worlds’ majority, without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

17. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

18. I can be sure that if I ask to talk to “the person in charge” I will be facing a person of my race.

19. If a traffic cop pulls me over, or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven’t been singled out because of my race.

20. I can easily buy posters, postcards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys, and children’s magazines featuring people of my race.

21. I can go home from most meetings or organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in rather than isolated, out of place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance, or feared.

22. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having coworkers on the job suspect that I got it because of race.

23. I can choose public accommodations without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

24. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help my race will not work against me.

25. If my day, week, or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it has racial overtones.

26. I can choose blemish cover or bandages in “flesh” color that more or less matches my skin.

Now not all will apply to you. (Number 8 in particular only applies to Ms McIntosh herself.) Some are changing -- I'd like to think that 18 is no longer as absolute as it was, for example. But a lot are still true, and still very much untrue for anyone without white privilege. (And having any kind of unearned privilege most assuredly doesn't mean bad shit doesn't happen. It just means that it probably would have been even worse had you not had that invisible cushion.)

And you know what? I don't think you need to feel guilty. I've seen some very good arguments which state that guilt does SFA for actually minimising unearned privilege. In fact, it's a great way to keep the focus on the privileged, rather than the disadvantaged. That still doesn't mean you can absolve yourself from recognising that the system's unbalanced and unfair, you -do- get certain privileges that others don't, and you can choose to take part in trying to even that out or you can maintain the status quo. Either way, you are absolutely responsible for your actions.

http://davidswanson.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/aconcisehistory.png Barry Deustch's "Concise History of Race Relations in the USA" cartoon.

[potsherds]

And by the way, I'm still waiting for my privileges to kick in. I want to know exactly what they are so I'll know when I get them.

You're not waiting for anything, you receive these privileges and always have, you don't notice them, you don't have to think about how the color of your skin affects people's treatment of you.

From: https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/gjay/www/Whiteness/WhitePrivilege.ppt

Being White in this society automatically guarantees you better treatment and unearned benefits and privileges than minorities. Having white skin means you have the freedom to choose the neighborhood you live in. You won’t be discriminated against. When you enter a store, security guards won’t assume you will steal something. You can flag down a cab without the thought they won’t pick you up because you are a minority. You can study in school and be assured your group will be portrayed positively. You don’t have to deal with race or think about it.

You don't have to worry about being denied a loan based on your skin color

You don't have to worry about being pulled over by a cop or stopped on the street by one because of your color.

You have the privilege of not having to worry about these things. And it feeds back into itself remarkably well. Because these are things white people don't have to think about, they're oblivious to it. And when it's brought up, they're offended.

Also from https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/gjay/www/Whiteness/WhitePrivilege.ppt

For people perceived as “white,” whiteness means

To be socialized into a world of White supremacy.

To inherit and benefit from a world of White privilege.

To knowingly or unknowingly have a stake in the perpetuation of White racism.

To deny the reality of people of color and to define their experience from a White perspective.

To be oblivious to your own biases and prejudices.

To be right.

To possess the luxury of not exploring yourself as a racial/cultural being.

To be able to equate a “human being” with being White.

To be in the position to be an oppressor with the power to force your will upon persons of color.

More importantly, being a White American means living in a world of self-deception, “color blind” in the sense that you do not see that in this world your skin color is an asset while all other colors are a liability.

ETA: Thanks Eef, was looking for that very list and couldn't find it. :)

[pika]

go try that stick on some one who's buying why don't you?

[DanteGabriel]

go try that stick on some one who's buying why don't you?

You're definitely benefiting from the privilege of ignorance.

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

rabbits, that's kind of the point. Whether you buy it or not, it's actually happening. You're so used to it that you're not aware of it.

It's not just you, either. Almost everyone has some sort of privilege(s) -- I benefit from white privilege, class privilege, cis-privilege, heteronormative privilege, etc., so I am really not trying to be a guilt-peddler or to dump on white guys because it's fun. I just want people to recognise what a messed-up system we live in, and recognise that sometimes -- precisely because life isn't fair -- we get good stuff that happens to us just like we get bad stuff.

Then keep that in mind when dealing with issues like this one.

[potsherds]

rabbits, that's kind of the point. Whether you buy it or not, it's actually happening. You're so used to it that you're not aware of it.

It's not just you, either. Almost everyone has some sort of privilege(s) -- I benefit from white privilege, class privilege, cis-privilege, heteronormative privilege, etc., so I am really not trying to be a guilt-peddler or to dump on white guys because it's fun. I just want people to recognise what a messed-up system we live in, and recognise that sometimes -- precisely because life isn't fair -- we get good stuff that happens to us just like we get bad stuff.

Then keep that in mind when dealing with issues like this one.

Yes. This is it exactly.

[zollo]

You're definitely benefiting from the privilege of ignorance.

Badaboom tssssh. :lmao:

Rabbits, you might want to think about the aforementioned somewhat, it is not something Eefa pulled out of her arse. Fair enough that you don't want to or feel the need to feel guilty about what happened way before you were around. Recognising where current day societal patterns come from and recognising your own position as ethniticity X and your interactions with others within those patterns is hardly a bad thing. Dismissing any of that out of hand is hardly sensible.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Or you could attempt to show all the streams of history, the good and the bad, everyones, and recognize that some groups have a more difficult history and make an extra effort to make those people feel that their history is acknowledged, without having to turn white history into Guiltfest 101.

Fine. But that doesn't require high school level courses that focus only on one race or ethnicity.

[Datepalm]

Fine. But that doesn't require high school level courses that focus only on one race or ethnicity.

I'm sure it dosen't. How would you do it?

[Watcher]

go try that stick on some one who's buying why don't you?

To pile onto this point, you can only be this ignorant because you're white. I'm one of the whitest people in the world and with only causal observation I notice I'm treated better then most POC.

Have a conversation with cops, security guards and pay attention to how they make racist comments. Talk to people who work in hospitals and challenge yourself to how they refer to people. Listen to your family and neighbors and count up how often they refer to a minority by the color of their skin or something that makes them different.

This is a simply test. Next time someone you know has been rob, car broken into or had a crime committed against them, count how many of your friends and family assume it was by a minority. Then think about why they didn't assume the person wasn't white.

BTW I feel no guilt because I'm white, I simply got lucky on my place of birth. I do put an extra thought into how I treat people from everything shaking their hands to saying good bye.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

I'm sure it dosen't. How would you do it?

Didn't I already describe that above? Multi-cultural/ethnic courses.

[Datepalm]

Didn't I already describe that above? Multi-cultural/ethnic courses.

And I explained what the difficulty with that is and why the 'ethnic studies' is probably a reaction to those difficulties.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

And I explained what the difficulty with that is and why the 'ethnic studies' is probably a reaction to those difficulties.

datepalm, I don't think that's why we have single-race courses, but I suppose it really doesn't matter at this point.

[Trebla]

I've tried really hard to stay out of these recent threads but I have to make one point. Despite the fact that I'm a 4th generation American I still have to tell people I'm Mexican. Meeting someone new often goes like this.

"Hi I'm Al"

"Oh pleased to me you, Al. So...what nationality are you?"

"Um...American?"

"Oh...I know that! I mean, are you Hispanic? Asian?"

I had a lady who worked in HR ask me. I said I was Hispanic and she said...

"Are you sure? You really look Vietnamese"

Yeah, I was pretty sure. I was highly amused that this was someone who worked in Human Resources. Then again, I was just in my early 20's and was more used to that sort of thing back then. This was only a few years after an experience I had in a World Cultures class where a teacher stated, "If Mexico wasn't so poor, we wouldn't have so many wetbacks in this country". Though that did warrent a meeting with the school administarion and an apology from the teacher.

I of course don't say "I'm American" anymore. I just say Mexican now. Why be defensive?