Jump to content

Questions about Heraldry


Recommended Posts

Ok this is a Mystery Knight question.

In the description of Ser Duncan's new shield, they describe the arms borne as: a hanged man swinging grim and grey beneath a gallows tree.

Is this House Trant? I ask because in the Citadel description of their arms, there is no tree? Did George change it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe. GRRM has not touched on the Trants in a long time, really, and details may have changed. The one thing that makes me doubtful it's them, though, is the fact that he listed them as stormlords in our notes, but it seems unlikely that a stormlord's shield would be for sale in the riverlands. So I'm thinking it's some one else's arms. There are probably more than one houses with hanged men on their shields.

Of course, it's always possible he decided to relocate them to the riverlands, or somewhere else we don't know about yet. Those notes are ... well, they're more than ten years old now, I guess (I think he sent them to us in 1997 or 1998), and there's plenty of time for changes along the way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

Probably Carons isn't it ? Lord Bryce was slained at the Blackwater and their lands confiscated, so they must still be with Stannis.

And the ring of flowers is certainly Florents, Florents are the more numerous of Stannis men, so statisticly, Jon might have seen their ring of flower

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Other-in-Law

Another unaccounted blazons was one Arya saw outside the Twins at the Red Wedding:

"She saw a half-dressed girl burst from a tent laughing, but the tent was pale blue, not grey like she'd thought, and the man wore a spotted treecat on his doublet, not a wolf."

We have a spotted treecat on mud-brown for house Myatt in the Westerlands, but they would have had no business being at the RW. Maybe this could be an unknown or unblazoned Riverlands house (like the Naylands or Deddings), but there really should be just as many hedge knights in the realm as noble houses...they should be the largest tier in the feudal pyramid (not counting the peasantry). No surprise if that was just some random nobody knight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Caron for the birds, definitely. The ring of flowers, though... young Lord Meadows was Ser Cortnay Penrose's second in command, and is the one who surrendered Storm's End to Stannis. It seems to me that it's likelier the Meadows arms, even though it's true there should be a good number of Florent forces among Stannis's troops. With Lord Florent suffering a traitor's death and Ser Axell being a Queen's Man, I think that many of the Florent forces would have been among those taking up Stannis's R'hllorian banner to distance themselves from their executed lord. Which would mean those arms Jon notes are from House Meadows.

I'd also think he'd referenced the fox head inside the ring, if it were Florent, but maybe not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

House Caron...never thought of that one. Though it makes me wonder who`s leading the remnants of that house since Rolland Storm is at Dragonstone and only true-born members of the family are allowed to use the arms. Wonder if there`s a cousin we don`t know about.

As for the ring of flowers, since it could be either of them, I`ll list it under both houses as a possibility.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

New question.

Outside of Maidenpool (Chapter 14) Brienne encounters a group of soldiers. They are from different houses.

The quote is

"She saw two centaurs, a thunderbolt, a blue beetle and a green arrow....Their serjeant had a peacock...."

Blue Beetle = Bettley

Green Arrow = Sarsfield

Peacock - Serrett

Thunderbolt - Leygood possibly?

now by two centaurs, does she mean two centaurs on the banner, or two men with centaurs on their livery? I lean more to the latter, because those single centaurs would make them Caswell men. Advice is welcome.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Blue Beetle = Bettley

Green Arrow = Sarsfield

Peacock - Serrett

Thunderbolt - Leygood possibly?

now by two centaurs, does she mean two centaurs on the banner, or two men with centaurs on their livery? I lean more to the latter, because those single centaurs would make them Caswell men. Advice is welcome.

Thunderbolt could be Dondarrion too. But Leygood is more likely, I suppose.

And I don't think that we know of any other hous besides Caswell with centaurs in their arms. So I guess it's either two banners or Lord Caswell's second son.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...

Thunderbolt could be Dondarrion too. But Leygood is more likely, I suppose.

And I don't think that we know of any other hous besides Caswell with centaurs in their arms. So I guess it's either two banners or Lord Caswell's second son.

Dondarrion is forked purple lightning, rather than the traditional single-bolt. Dondarrion's is distinctive enough that Brienne would probably have mentioned it with simply describing it as a "mere" thunderbolt.

Leygood is the only reference I see in the heraldry for thunderbolts, but they'd be an awfully long way from home in the Reach. I'm guessing either a minor scion seeking fortunes in the riverlands, or some hedge knight or freerider.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

New question about heraldry. During my reread of AGOT I came across the listed heraldry of those attending the Hand's Tourney.

* the brindled boar - Crakehall

* the red ox - Prester

* the burning tree - Marbrand

* the triple spiral - Massey

* the purple unicorn - Brax

* the dancing maiden - Piper

* the horned owl - Mertyns

however the following I have no clue

* the blackadder

* the white ram

any help would be appreciated

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

New question, though this is more `which region does it belong too?`

House Wells, currently listed as being a Northern house, though the two members to appear, Ser Theodan and Ser William are both knights and associated with peoples and organizations of the south while there has been no mention of them in the North.

I was wondering if maybe they are a Dornish house, since their last name has more in common with the Drinkwaters than with the Marshes, Condons and Slates of the north.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The northern location of the Wells is only from GRRM's notes, and it may well be that it's something he changed. Alternatively, there are two Wells families, one in the North, one in Dorne, who are (probably) entirely unrelated to one another.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The northern location of the Wells is only from GRRM's notes, and it may well be that it's something he changed. Alternatively, there are two Wells families, one in the North, one in Dorne, who are (probably) entirely unrelated to one another.

So for the wiki, should I make William Wells of a different house or should I just add him to the northern one?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

New issue:

For the Dornish houses a number of new versions of the coat of arms were uploaded.The new ones use a different shield but do not show the words of the house. Also the colours are less bright. To put it short I liked the older version more. I reverted the one of House Jordayne. Before reverting the others I would like to ask the opinions of others.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

New issue:

For the Dornish houses a number of new versions of the coat of arms were uploaded.The new ones use a different shield but do not show the words of the house. Also the colours are less bright. To put it short I liked the older version more. I reverted the one of House Jordayne. Before reverting the others I would like to ask the opinions of others.

I uploaded the new Dornish coat of arms to make the important point that that Donish arms are round not escutcheon in shape. It should be noted that most of the arms on the site do not have the words of the house. You cannot see the word on most of the arms that have then in the small size that they are mainly used for in the character infobox. I know they are of lower resolution than the old ones but they really do not need higher resolution for thsi type of image. They were the only round Dornish arms I found that were freely use licensed for use. I do not understand the poor color quality.

yours,

ASHaber aka Ser Ash the Red

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...