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Migey

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Does anyone play this game?

I've always been a fairly casual player. I got into raiding a bit more seriously in WotLK, but that was kind of a bad idea, since WotLK sucked, since it was nothing more then a testing ground (experiement should be considered failed) for new systems.

I really hope that cata brings WoW back to its former glory (it peaked at mid TBC imo) The screenshots that we saw in the MMO leak, at least, were jaw-droppingly awesome.

Also, PvP looks much more awesome, and Blizzard have a much better attitude towards it now. With the emphasis being put more on team playing in Battlegrounds rather then pewpew i haz bigger weapon lolz in 2v2 and 3v3 matches in tiny arenas were hunters are pillar kited to death by druids and priests (unless a skilled DK is present), it looks good.

I also want to be able to get my new pvp title. It would be awesome to strut around Stormwind with my paladin having the 'knight' title above my head. Although il settle for kingslayer if i ever manage it. If i do, im changing my name to Jaime.

Overall, i thyink the cataclysm looks awesome. My druid is definately going to be my main. Paladins where never very fun exept to tank, and ive mastered that for ages, and its rather shocking when you realise that its so easy and boring that you can tank some bosses with your eyes closed.. (i tried it for a bet... and we managed)

And the hunters changes look god awful. Ranged rogues? NO.

Apart from that, cataclysm looks great.

Although i dont understand while they dragged WotLK out for 2 years, wheras TBC (way better) was only there for a year.

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That reminds of the other day when i pugged ICC25. (Decent pug, got 5 bosses)

I came third on the healing meters (6 healers) with judgement of light

Tankpower ftw?

I also love being in the top three on dps meters on my huntard when most people would say my gear barely qualifies for ToC25. Thats what i lkie about the Pre-cata hunters, (im scrapping mine once focus comes in) hunters dont need gear to be good - you can be a fuck awesome hunter with fairly mediocre gear.

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Quite a few of us here play, as evidenced in the last thread! :)

The old thread is a bit big though now, so your timing in starting a new thread is impeccable.

I popped on today and did a heroic HoL for fun. I tanked it and topped the meters. Mind you, I was specced and geared for Fury. :D

I don't think the day will ever come where I stop hating the Runeshapers in there. Fuckers.

I only hate the Runeshapers because everyone but me is too fucking dumb to interrupt charged flurry :( It's a spell you assholes! Three of you have interrupts, use them!

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Splurged 10k on some boots,bracers and chest and still loving warrior tanking. It felt so boring on when I tried it on my Paladin way back in TBC tanking Magtheridon.

Charging into packs of mobs > Captain America shield.

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Splurged 10k on some boots,bracers and chest and still loving warrior tanking. It felt so boring on when I tried it on my Paladin way back in TBC tanking Magtheridon.

Charging into packs of mobs > Captain America shield.

Pallies are awesomesauce for tanking, altho I agree, the lack of charge is emo. I always miss charge. :P But you get to lob a big shield in the phase of monsters so that helps.

Re Lich King and Defiles:

I actually think that while LK is a really, really frustrating fights, it is also designed in a clever way. You can NEVER EVER DO IT with people who cannot run out of the fire. They will wipe you every single time on this. We used to have 1-2 in our group who just couldn't grasp it and kept missing Defiles. We spent three weeks hammering it into their heads.

What we did in the end was rather like Poobah's method:

You can predict where the Valkyries will come if everyone groups up slightly to either left or right of LK (try to have him centred as much as possible to give max time on Valk DPS). The Defiled person runs out right if people are grouped up left (if defile before and times are wonky). If not, Valk comes up first, people move left with Valk, and Defile person drops it right (if ranged or healer) and far at the back ( if melee).

Sometimes you will have to improvise tho, and be sure especially you tanks are on the ball to help the Defiles people by sidestepping with LK if Defiled person is near.

Also, TUSKARR's VITALITY on 100% on the raid.

I only hate the Runeshapers because everyone but me is too fucking dumb to interrupt charged flurry It's a spell you assholes! Three of you have interrupts, use them!

But, but interrupting lessens MAH IMBA DPS!!!111 :P I interrupt with my DK and the tanks seems to eye me as if I am some strange beast from a different planet. I also DG casters pounding the healer to the tanks. I R bad at Deepeesss.

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Yeah, anyone without a speed boost talent inbuilt to their spec should use either engineering boots or Cat's / Tuskars. On any fight that's actually hard movement speed beats out any other enchant that a boot slot can take by miles.

@Kymeera

In other news, we downed heroic Lady D the other night. I'm not sure why, but as a boomkin I will devastate the raid if I get MCed. It's so bad that I'm on top priority to get CCed, right up there with the Shadowmourne ret pally. I guess it's because of starfire + lots of crit + 20% buff. The first time I didn't get CCed I killed 3 or 4 people.

For lady D you really want to have several people who are designated CCers, also everyone should click off their shadow prot buff and use aura instead (which won't effect mc'd people) so that fears will land successfully.

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Although i dont understand while they dragged WotLK out for 2 years, wheras TBC (way better) was only there for a year.

TBC release date: Jan 17, 2007

WotLK release date: Nov 13, 2008

TBC was the current content for nearly 2 years. Personally, I think WotLK is a much better expansion than TBC. It all boils down to the fact that none of the raid bosses can be considered a guild killer. Back in TBC my guild fell apart on Kael'thas, and in vanilla one of my guilds died on Vaelastrasz, and then my next guild almost died on him. Now everyone can see the content on at least some level, with the more hardcore being able to do 25 man hard modes.

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Its not that - its just the lack of good lore, the lack of raid instances, the lack of difficulty, the easiness of which one can obtain gear... everything is just terrible. When you can do a heroic instance with 5 dps (with the elemental shaman doubling up as a healer and the blood DK doubling as a tank) you know something is wrong.

I just dont get it. They had potential for so many goo0d raid instances - WotLK ould easily have been the best xpac ever. But they thrw it all away. No Azjol Nerub raid, no Utgarde Keep raid (would have easily made a better starting raid then naxx. Could have been done in two parts, Upper and Lower Utgarde Pinnacle, with 2 dungeons, Upper and Lower Utgarde Keep) Eye of Eternity was jusy a JOKE. I expected an absolutely amazing instance, something on par with the epicness of Tempest Keep, for EoE. Instead we get a half assed attempt at a single puny bossling, who sucked anyway. The 'attunement' was a joke, and it wasnt even really an attunement. Ulduar was the only decent raid instance we have seen. Icecrown would be considered on that par too, but he stupid buff that allows pugs to get 11/12 just ruins it, since nobody is willing to run without it.

Although despite Ulduars awesomeness, the lack of an attunement sucked. In fact, the sons of Hodir chain should have been the attunement, since 2 of the bosses in Ulduar (Razorscale and Thorim) make no sense until you actually complete it. And Loken should have been the Vezax of Ulduar. Not the piss easy boss of a shitty 5man.

Lack of a troll raid was annoying. Gundrak would have made a great raid, but the fortress just stands there looking stupid while the 'Gundrak' they give us is just a shitty underground cavern with an emo mammoth and some wannabe snakeman in it. Im sure grizzlemaw would have made an awesome furbolg based raid instance. Ursoc or Beagar Blackpaw, either one would have made a good final boss.

ToC was just a joke, and i felt like the idea was pulled out of a random blizzard employees backside. The lack of any trash in it sucked. Do you know the feeling that comes when you defeat an entire raid instance in 17 minutes? (We only did it because we were aiming to do it, and it was normal, and 10man. But still.

In the HCs, the lack of CC was a joke. The mindless CC required was bullshit. The lack of a decent CoT instance (and there were HUNDREDS of possibilities out there) was annoying.

What annoyed me lorewise more then anything was prominent figures (Mal'ganis, Anub'arak, Loken, Malygos, etc) appearing only as 5man bosses, shitty quest objectives, or jokes. Malygos was a joke. Honestly. I would not be suprised if Blizzard was rolling on he floor of thier mysterious HQ laughing at us while we failed on him.

WotLK was pure awful. The only part of the game i felt was on par with TBC (despite lack of attunement) was ulduar, and alot of that was because of the awsome hardmodes, the incredibly difficult Yogg'Saron fight (if only we'd had something like that for Malygos, Anub'arak, Loken, Mal'ganis... oh god... would be awesome) and Algalon, which i felt was done very very well. I also enjoyed the amount of skill required to even reach Algalon, let alone best him. The hardmodes in Ulduar (with the expetion of some like Thorim, and Hodir) mostly required skill over gear.

Ive ranted enough. I hate WotLK, and i hope that Cata will deliver WoW back to its former TBC glory.

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This might mark the first time I've ever seen a WOW player complain that a lack of trash sucks in a raid instance.

I think you're forgetting how hard some of this stuff was before the gear had inflated. Naxx was pretty epic when you were mostly in blues - same with EoE (and nobody in your raid really knew how the drakes worked).

I really like how Blizzard managed the Wrath raids escalating. Attunements were a pain in the ass when you were trying to work in new players or new characters to, say, T6 raids and you had to run the T5 just to get them through. That sucked. I don't understand why anybody would lament for a return of those days. It also sucked since you needed a way to gear up those newer characters and there was no easy way to do it. This way every couple of tiers there were some filler pieces you could get outside of raids. Trivialized the lower tiers of raids, sure, but there was plenty of time where those raids were serious business so it's not like long-time players were deprived of that experience.

I personally hope Cata follows up on the trends they've started in Wrath as far as how they handle raiding and the like. It's so much better than it used to be for me, it's not even funny.

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I admit that Naxx was decent when you were in blues (although it speaks for all the hard work blizzard does for us that 3 of the starting raids had only 1 boss, and the last one wasnt even a new raid.) But EoE is, and always has been a joke. For a dragon aspect i expected MUCH bigger. At least a proper raid instance...

And yes, it was hard to gear new people up.

But it was never too much of a chore for me, because i found it fun.

Attunements were never too much a problem. And i dont like that as soon as new raids come out these days, the old ones become redundant.

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I hate WotLK raiding, hard-modes shouldn't exist. Every boss should be a hardmode. Very few players are willing to put in the time these days to make any progression, compared to TBC and Vanilla. In Vanilla, it took my guild months of Rag attempts to actually kill Rag (because gear was from drops for one thing, not vendor loot!). After tuesday, all there would be left, would be Rag, but every raid day, including Saturday, there'd be 80 people on trying to get 40 raid spots, because there was nothing else. There were no 20 mans yet (Aq20 or ZG). Those were the days. Now my guild is lucky to have 25 people on Wednesday, after they get their welfare loot and badges on Tuesday.

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I fucking hate 25man raids and I'm glad I have the options to do 10s. I'm glad 10s and 25s will drop the same loot in Cata for the same reason. In 10mans I feel like part of a team with my friends. In 25s I feel like a number.

I also appreciated the badge gear, because I already did this shit on one toon and I liked not having to pound nails into my dick to gear up my army of alts.

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Well i think Cataclysm is going to be awesome, since Blizzard has made 2 x-pacs, and largely, have learnt from thier most glaring mistakes. I think cata will be very good, and the next one will be even better. They have promised to release more raid content then ever before, so i do not worry that they will let perfect oppurtunities for good raid instances pass by. Only problem with that is that there arnt a quarter as many of those as there were in WotLK.

That aside, almost everything ive seen in Cata so far is looking good. I cant say i agree to the drastic, potentially class-breaking move of changing the hunter resource, but everything else looks great.

I wonder what the new Thousand Needles dungeon will be... (unless its Razofen Downs, which has been moved) Come to think of it, it poribably is that, since i saw the leaked map before Blizzard dragooned Boub into agreeing to an NDA.

Anyway. Skywall looks awesome. Uldum looks even more awesome. The Firelands looks moderately awesome. The new Blackrock 'mountain' instances look very awesome. Grim Batol looks extremely awesome.

Etc.

I also wonder were our final confrontation with Deathwing will be... probably no Grim Batol, since thats a starting raid instance. I like the way they havn't given us any info on where we are finally ging to fight Deathwing, and since he doesnt have a central base of operations, like Lich King, Kil'Jeaden, Keal'Thas, or Illidan (oh how i miss thee!) we will be kept guessing.

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There was a lot to like about WotLK, and some of the boss fights were among the best and most memorable I've ever experienced. That being said, I really don't like how progression went completely out the window, and doing the prior tier had no value other than achievements. There really wasn't any reason for anyone to do anything but ToC once ToC came out, and ICC was easy enough that you had to do at least the first few bosses when it came out.

I'm glad that I got to see Yogg0, Algalon when it was harder, Firefighter when it was harder, Anub HM when it was hard. But I don't think many people even bothered.

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That's not going away though. And if you ever had to gear up any newbies in Vanilla WoW, you'd know why. The 2 tiers of badges thing is the best idea ever and they've already said it's gonna be in Cataclysm. It does suck that people don't go back for gear, but with way less ilvl difference between raid tiers in the next expansion, that shoudln't be near as much of an issue.

As for Raids? There were a few less Raid instances sure, but we still got 4 tiers and we still got just as many bosses. WOTLK has an equal number of encounters to TBC if you include Kara and ZA bosses into TBC's count (Way more if you don't). WOTLK just has instances with ALOT of bosses in them. I think more instances with less bosses is better, but that's something they are doing for Cataclysm too.

Also, you miss attunements? Really Migey, it just sounds like you hate yourself and you want Blizzard to punish you.

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That's not going away though. And if you ever had to gear up any newbies in Vanilla WoW, you'd know why.

But see, the welfare loot system is making guilds pointless. Most players don't even bother with guilds anymore, they just pug everything. The importance of the guild in WoW has massively decreased. Whereas in Vanilla, you needed a guild to get anything done, in WotLK, if you're okay with just doing 6 bosses in ICC, then you won't join a guild. And the problem I see is that, the vast majority of the players are okay with just doing 6 bosses in ICC. Raid attendance across servers has dropped for guilds. A majority of progression guilds have attendance issues at this point. All top guilds on my server have recruitment open continuously, whereas in Vanilla, openings in top guilds were something that happened once in a blue moon. This one of the major topics right now on the Cata Alpha forums, the decline of the guild. There are guilds out there that have no attendance problems, where everyone shows up, but they're hardcore progression guilds.

Casual progression guilds at this point have it terrible, the player they appeal - the dude who wants loot, but doesn't want to spend his entire life playing WoW decides to just pug in WotLK, as opposed to Vanilla where he would be reliant upon a guild, and here's the big one: reliant upon that guild's good graces. He'd have to show up, because he knew if he missed too many raids, he wouldn't get jack shit. These days, if someone shows up on a Tuesday, and doesn't come around ever again, you kick them, but they just go back to pugging, don't bat an eye. Therefore, it's harder for casual progression guilds to get reliable players. Or, if the raid fills, and they don't get in, they just go pug, instead of keeping themselves free for progression on the next few days. You kick them, and they just keep pugging. These are the kinds of players that need to be forced to raid. They have the time, and they might have the skill, but the current system lets them get by on just pugging.

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I agree with your premises but not your conclusions. Most pugs on my realms don't get past Saurfang, and are mocked and poorly thought of. 6/12 takes a bit more skill, god help you if you want to pug anything past that. And if you're only doing 6/12 that's not considered "good."

Personally I would like raiding to be even more accessible -- not in terms of difficulty, but in terms of time commitment. I would like to see more raids like ICC -- I like ICC a lot -- but I would have preferred that each wing be on a separate lockout. My group doesn't really need much of anything from the first wing anymore (except that fucking shield), but we still have to do it to get to the stuff that's progression for us, and given how long it takes to raid all of ICC two nights a week is a bare minimum and three is more likely. Three nights out of every seven is a long time to commit every single week for a video game. I get that they want to gate stuff, and that's fine, but they can do it like they did the ICC 5-mans -- have to clear the first wing to get to the plague wing, etc. You aren't required to go in odrer now and you wouldn't have to be -- you could have to clear the first wing to do plague, blood and frost wings, and have to have cleared all four to get to the Lich King, or whatever. It wouldn't be hard to implement. I admit I am a bit concerned about what it would do as far as the raid feeling epic, but I think accessibility ought to trump it.

I also think the decline of the guild as a mandatory organization is a good thing, and here's why. It's great for you if you're in a solid guild, but remember just how awful most of the WoW population is. Think about all the people demanding "5K GS MINIMUM TOC 10 PST." Now imagine that you have to deal with those people in order to pass muster to join a guild so you can do basically any of what endgame PvE play is about. Do you really want to subject new players to that kind of ill-informed moron elitism so you can feel extra good about yourself? You shouldn't.

Kal, I hear what you're saying about previous tiers of content. I didn't really get to see Ulduar and I haven't even quite seen all of Naxx, because I started raiding around when ToC was a thing. But again it's a battle between that and accessibility. It takes a really long time to gear up someone from just raid drops remember -- you have to run it over and over until your shit drops and then you have to win the roll. I think it's better to let raid content become gear-obsolete in order to let fresh 80s get to the current-level content that people care about running faster.

EDIT: And for those of us with lots of alts, doing that for all of them would be a nightmare.

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