Israeli Forces attack Aid Flotilla to Gaza

[kiko]

Yeah and terrorist have never collected money and weapons under the guise of a charitable group or an aid organization. rolls eyes

I don't think that smuggling weapons is the main goal of this enterprise. I think it is, depending on your point of view to break the will of the israelis and to give them a bad reputation by leading them to a public brutal enforcment of the blockade this blockade or to show the plight of the palestinensians that are at the mercy of the israelis and aren't even allowed to feed themselves.

Ib both cases this is much more powerful than the abiliuty to throw some pieces of scrap metall so high up in the air that it might hit an israeli family

[The hairy bear]

2) some on board are men who are wanted for/were engaged in acts of terrorism (I believe they are called... terrorists). The aid workers are what is sometime called a...beard.

Is this a fact, or just your assumption? Because all the sources I'm checking now say it was humanitarian aid. Was there anyone on board that was positively identified as a terrorist?

I might even support the boarding in this case, but otherwise yuor point is empty. I mean: how easy is to call "terrorists" or "terrorist-lovers" anyone I hurt in an illegal act outside my territorial waters...

[Shryke]

Also, AGAIN, THIS IS THE 9th FLOTILLA.

It's not like they haven't done this before.

[Lightning Lord]

No we forceably board and they retaliate by stringing their decks with barb wire and fecal matter.

This is getting off-topic. When did this happen? I haven't found an instance of the US forcibly boarding a North Korean ship. There was a lot made of the US tracking ships last year, but boarding seems more scarce.

ETA: grammar

[Samalander]

1) Bad assumption. What specific cases are we talking about?

2) And they already did this 8 other times. Is it the 10th time when the weapons show up? The 42nd? What's the rule on this again?

1) stuff like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karine_A_Affair

2) This is not difficult. The weapons show up once we stop doing it.

3) I'm curious (for real, no snark), why are concrete and steel not allowed to be brought in? Steel I think I understand, the assumption being it will be made into weaponry. But concrete?

3) Concrete can be used to build military bunkers and such.

4) Last time I checked Hamas had no problem getting money and weapons through various land routes. Why the fuck would they need whatever this ship had?

4) Like I alraedy explained, this was not about getting stuff that was on the ships to Gaza.

5) That's not what this was at all. This is more like someone renting you a house that is already being rented to someone else, so you push them into the basement and cut off the electricity and throw down some crackers every now and then. Your neighbor hears about what's happening so he starts collecting food and stuff that he plans on passing through the basement window to the guy. He does this a few times and when you find out you get all pissed and break into his shed where he keeps the food with a machine gun. The guy is preparing a basket to give to the neighbor guy so when you get in you demand the basket, he instead grabs a knife and tries to force you out of his shed so you shoot him.

Also you won't go to prison because your dad's a judge.

5) You forgot the part part where the guy in the basement sometimes tries to shoot you from the basement window and also set the house on fire.

[harrol]

Further more nations do not use hospitals and religious sites to stage attacks because then no one respects your hospitals. The same with aid agencies use them to violent ends and then you lose trust and respect. I am sorry that there are those that dishonored the use of aid agencies but trust is now lost.

[Lightning Lord]

3) Concrete can be used to build military bunkers and such.

It can also be used to build...houses? Shops? Palestinians are only allowed wood and glue for their construction?

[Samalander]

Is this a fact, or just your assumption? Because all the sources I'm checking now say it was humanitarian aid. Was there anyone on board that was positively identified as a terrorist?

This guy was named by name:

http://www.shabak.gov.il/english/history/affairs/pages/capuchicase.aspx

[Shryke]

1) stuff like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karine_A_Affair

So you are comparing a raid conducted after extensive investigation to the events of tonight?

2) This is not difficult. The weapons show up once we stop doing it.

'

Wait so you raided the other 8 flotillas too?

3) Concrete can be used to build military bunkers and such.

So what are the Palestinians supposed to build buildings out of again?

4) Like I alraedy explained, this was not about getting stuff that was on the ships to Gaza.

What was it about then, according to you?

I mean, it seems to be a PR move to draw attention to the Gaza Blockade while bringing much needed supplies in.

5) You forgot the part part where the guy in the basement sometimes tries to shoot you from the basement window and also set the house on fire.

Wait, the flotilla has been firing at Israel now?

This guy was named by name:

http://www.shabak.gov.il/english/history/affairs/pages/capuchicase.aspx

Where?

[Rane]

The same with aid agencies use them to violent ends and then you lose trust and respect.

What "violent ends"? It was the IDF that boarded and killed the activists, not the other way around.

[harrol]

You heard the man, down with Charities!!!

Not down with charities but rather verify. Always verify.

[TrueMetis]

It can also be used to build...houses? Shops? Palestinians are only allowed wood and glue for their construction?

Nope, wood can be used to make spears, mud only.

[Samalander]

It can also be used to build...houses? Shops? Palestinians are only allowed wood and glue for their construction?

I'm sorry, did I elect Hamas to power? Let the Palestinian people take it up with their representatives.

[Shryke]

I'm sorry, did I elect Hamas to power? Let the Palestinian people take it up with their representatives.

Wait, what?

So electing Hamas means you have to live in the dirt now?

[harrol]

What "violent ends"? It was the IDF that boarded and killed the activists, not the other way around.

You are correct the IDF boarded these ships. In the not so distant past terrorist organizations including Hamas were using charities to funnel money and weapons for the express purpose of terrorism

[Lightning Lord]

I'm sorry, did I elect Hamas to power? Let the Palestinian people take it up with their representatives.

:stunned:

You elected Hamas...no shelter for you. Deal with it.

Wow.

[Rane]

I'm sorry, did I elect Hamas to power? Let the Palestinian people take it up with their representatives.

I'm sure they do, and I'm also sure that Hamas would do something about it, if, you know, Israel and Egypt didn't blockaded every single way they have of buying concrete.

[Samalander]

1) So you are comparing a raid conducted after extensive investigation to the events of tonight?

2) So what are the Palestinians supposed to build buildings out of again?

3)What was it about then, according to you?

I mean, it seems to be a PR move to draw attention to the Gaza Blockade...

4) Wait, the flotilla has been firing at Israel now?

1) You are having difficulty keeping track of the conversation? I mentioned boarding ships with munitions on them, you said like waht, I gave example. I was not comparing anything.

2) Like I said, they should it up with their government.

3) Asked and answered by yourself.

4) I assumed the analogy was a refrence to the whole Gaza-Isreal situation.

[shadowbinding shoe]

That's not what this was at all. This is more like someone renting you a house that is already being rented to someone else, so you push them into the basement and cut off the electricity and throw down some crackers every now and then. Your neighbor hears about what's happening so he starts collecting food and stuff that he plans on passing through the basement window to the guy. He does this a few times and when you find out you get all pissed and break into his shed where he keeps the food with a machine gun. The guy is preparing a basket to give to the basmenet guy so when you get in you demand the basket, he instead grabs a knife and tries to force you out of his shed so you shoot him.

Also you won't go to prison because your dad's a judge.

I don't really see how this describes Hamas. Is this supposed to be related to territorial disputes (Hamas not willing to acknowledge Israel's right to 1 cm² of land in the Middle East or its right to exist)?

When you have an enemy that doesn't care about usual deterrents you must give in to him or become more aggressive to affect him at all. Similar situations can be seen with the North Korean regime or the Libyan one in the past. The embargo on the Hamas enclave Israel and Egypt run and is accepted more or less by much of the rest of the world is iffy. As I understand it Israel said she would lift it or at least drastically loosen it when Hamas finally get the hostage exchange deal done.

[Samalander]

I'm sure they do, and I'm also sure that Hamas would do something about it, if, you know, Israel and Egypt didn't blockaded every single way they have of buying concrete.

Sure they can do something about it. Change their political platform, cease all hostile activities, cease contact with Iran, stop arming immediately, return Gaza to Democracy, etc. They do all that (and, yes, and give us back our kidnapped soldier) I am sure the blockade will be lifted.