Breaking Bad Seasons Three and Four

[WarGalley]

3. Gus. This was the first episode where I was actually afraid of Gus. Absolutely, completely afraid of Gus. He was terrifying. I knew that Jesse was not going to die in that meeting scene. You just know: this show is not Deadwood- they are not going to kill a major character in the second-to-last episode of the season. But the VIEWER felt the tension that JESSE must have been feeling; is this the moment where I die? Did they bring him out there to kill him and chop him up? That MUST have been in Jesse's mind. And you felt it. But Gus really did show that he is a terrifying personality.

Yeah the tension in this episode was great. I also liked the scene where Mr. Clean (did we ever get his name?) told the story about the guy who always beat his girlfriend. How many times has a scene like that been done? I think I've seen it on one of the Law and Orders half a hundred times or so. They pulled it off a lot better, predictable as his story was though.

So, yeah, then THAT happened. However, the episode did it VERY WELL! Jesse relapsed NOT for the sake of providing a story or to fill an otherwise light story; it was in the context of him gearing up to kill or be killed. In that light, that whole scene worked; the relapse worked. It was well done.

Yeah when I saw the meth, I thought "Here we go again," then I realized he was parked at the same spot he had before (not smart on his part) and everything clicked.

[WarGalley]

Also,

I was wondering that the whole time and was expecting Jesse to look at the meth he bought from Tomas and see that it was blue. He didn't even give it a glance though. I suppose they could still go with that in the next episode opener, but that would be weaker than ending on that kind of note.

I still think the blue meth thing would have been stronger if they had ended with it in the previous episode. Instead the diner scene had a lot less tension.. revelation turned into passing observation (but maybe that was just Walt).

[TrackerNeil]

Divorce or no divorce, Sky and her children could always be seen as a way to get to Walt. Granted she could have taken the children and moved across the country.

This has nothing to do with "getting to" Walt. It's about Skylar landing in prison for participation in a criminal conspiracy, leaving her children with a sister who will likely be completely disgraced by the entire affair and a jobless brother-in-law in a wheelchair.

[Alpha13]

This has nothing to do with "getting to" Walt. It's about Skylar landing in prison for participation in a criminal conspiracy, leaving her children with a sister who will likely be completely disgraced by the entire affair and a jobless brother-in-law in a wheelchair.

Getting arrested is not the only thing Skylar should be afraid of. That being said, It would only make sense to be "all in" or "all out". And in order to be all out, she would need more than a divorce. She would have to basically tear her family apart. By going all in, she can, in her mind, keep her family together. Is it the wrong choice? Legally, yes. In the long term, probably. But logically I understand her reasons.

[jurble]

Well: hmm.

[ztemhead]

wow, go Heisenberg! Awesome how Walt anticipates Gus' next moves.

[palin99999]

Wow :stunned: That was awesome. Can season four get here soon? Please?

Poor, nerdy Gale

Also, here's a great interview with creator Vince Gilligan.

[Samalander]

I hate to be the one who keeps saying this (especially since I was sooo wrong about Skyler) but do we really know what happened? Was it just me or did the barrel of the gun shift to the side there at the end of the episode?

[ztemhead]

yeah, I rewinded that on Tivo. He had the barrel right at Gale's head, and then shifted it at the last second. Let's see how Jesse plays it out.

[Samalander]

yeah, I rewinded that on Tivo. He had the barrel right at Gale's head, and then shifted it at the last second. Let's see how Jesse plays it out.

1) The interview above implies that was just a camera snafoo, but maybe the show's creator is cruel (like those Lost creators) and likes fucking with us.

2) Saul's devotion to his clients, given the shit storm he might end up in, is quite touching.

[ztemhead]

NO WAY was that a camera snafu. If it was one guy working in a vacuum, maybe. But the whole production team overlooking Jesse shifting the gun? In a show with such crisp scenes, it's impossible that they all let it pass.

[Speransky]

NO WAY was that a camera snafu. If it was one guy working in a vacuum, maybe. But the whole production team overlooking Jesse shifting the gun? In a show with such crisp scenes, it's impossible that they all let it pass.

From the interview that palin posted above, it seems that it wasn't meant to be ambiguous.

VG: Gotcha. That’s interesting, because I’m hearing that from some folks, that question. To me, for what it’s worth, it’s not actually meant to be ambiguous. It’s meant to be, “Oh my god, Jesse shot poor Gale.” But I’m realizing now that when people see the camera come dollying around so it’s looking down the barrel of the gun, some are reading that as maybe he’s changing his point of aim. But that’s not what we intended. Apparently it’s not as clear as I thought it would be. [Laughs.]

[Rockroi]

I liked the episode a lot, but I am more and more questioning what certain characters are thinking more and more.

Specifically, going all Spoiler-tastic on everyone, why would Gus risk such a fiasco trying to execute his cooker right now? It seems decidedly un-pragmatic, as Walt himself states. I understand Gus' issue: his cooker- the man responsible for his product and his financial expansion over the last year -has openly and obviously defied him. This is an issue. But the context is lost on me. Why is Gus so concerned over Walt's defiance? For starters, its understandable: Walt killed the two hoods in defense of Jesse, his long-time compatriot, Jesse, who was, in effect, on a suicide mission. Second, its not like these two guys are going to be missed (are they?); we have not so much as a hint that Gus is getting "heat" from he street that these two thugs are crow fodder. Third, all of this is occurring contemporaneously with Gus' severe problems with the cartel (Mike's scene ... which rocked hard), seems like a really, really strange time for Gus to choose to eliminate his cooker.

Remember, Walt is the Daniel Day-Lewis of cookers- he is so good, his employers are willing to overlook what an incredible PITA he is. Its also obvious that Gus' entire operation has benefited greatly from Walt; why would he jeopardize all that over ... Jesse Pinkman and two dead assholes? Why would he, to beat this dead horse, shoot the goose that laid the golden egg? And why now?

Fourth, why not just wait? Is there something agonizing that would cause Gus to kill Walt right this moment? I say quite the opposite; it actually appears that Gus has all the reason to AVOID getting rid of Walt right now; while things are difficult. Wait it out. Wait for Walt to get his guard down, wait for Gale to truly get up to speed; wait for the cartel issue to resolve or blow over. Wait. I think my criticism of this episode is that it details a series of events that, to me, seem like they are unlikely RIGHT NOW (but are likely at some point). And it begins and ends with Gus. Gus is so pragmatic and exceptionally detailed that his end of the story seems ... slightly ... rushed.

The other character that I thought was incongruous was Jesse. Not his sincerity- I think the one thing that I have realized with Jesse is that he becomes extremely passionate and fixated over innocence. I think it was that Jesse advised Walt to go to the cops and joint the Witness Protection Program, which seems strange. It would NOT seem strange had it been another character who made the suggestion; but it does seem strange that it was "up-to-his-eyeballs-in-it" Jesse Pinkman. However, what I did like about Jesse was that he advised, so passionately, against what Walt was doing against Gale. It shows that Pinkman has his humanity- it was shown with the two relationships we have seen him have; we have seen it in the ATM episode; we saw it with his outrage over Tomas (which, I still say, seemed a bit out of whack) and we now see it with Gale. Jesse does NOT want to do to Gale what Walt does. And it showed right up to the bitter, bitter end.

Which takes us back to Walt. This episode was the antithesis of most of what we expect from Breaking Bad insofar as there was very little "shock" value- we were privy to everything as it unfolded: we KNEW what Gus was doing (and are now pacified that Gus and Gale were not "doing it" before last night's episode); we KNEW how Walt was reacting; we KNEW what the angles were; we KNEW who had to do what. We just didn't know IF they would do it.

And then they did.

Walt's most evil act was getting Jesse to kill Gale. Up to that point we could all argue (as I have) that Walt's actions were justifiable under certain circumstances. Walt could cook without trouble; he could provide comfort to his family; he could avoid violence; he was hurting those who WANTED his product; he killed only in self-defense. Even the OD could be justified insofar as Walt owed her no duty- legally or even morally -to save her from herself.

And while I can even organize a few dozen defenses for Walt's orders, they do not mitigate the obvious: Walt could have saved himself this head-ache by simply picking up and getting out. He did not HAVE to kill Gale.

But he did. And I back my man's play. It was obviously the best thing to do for Walt and his family, who Walt has always considered above all others in this. They still need him and his money and he selfishly wants to protect that.

But my problem is that what is stopping Gus from killing Walt now? If the REASON he was going to kill Walt was because Walt defied him BEFORE HOW IN THE NAME OF GOD DOES GUS NOT ORDER WALT DEAD AFTER THIS LAST EPISODE? It seems completely incongruous to me that IF Gus was angry at Walt for disobeying him in killing the two street thugs, how was that issue (of defiance) not exacerbated after this episode? How does the episode not end, truly, with Mike on the phone with Gus, with Gus hearing what is transpiring with Jesse, and how in the WORLD does Gus not see Walt's devastating pattern and say to Mike, "Kill him"? How does that not happen?

In other words, if Gus was willing to kill Walt because Walt killed two street thugs why would Gus STILL not want dead after Walt kills Gale? It seems bizarre.

But strangely, I liked it. I loved (LOVED) how Walt played that. He could see how it was unfolding and made his play: he faux begged Mike, becoming a pathetic caricature we have seen 1,000 times, then decoyed Mike into believing that he was giving up Jesse, but used that opportunity to get Jesse to spring into action. That was superb. (Though it raises the question on why everyone seems perfectly comfortable with the idea of their own execution: Walt was a little TOO calm when Mike was telling him how it would go down; I would have expected more Miller's Crossing and less Donnie Brasco). But it worked nonetheless.

I think we can also all now and forever dispense with the question of whether or not Walt "likes" Jesse: he obviously does or he would have allowed Jesse to get himself killed; and I think that Jesse DID like Walt up to the point the episode ended last night; Jesse COULD EASILY hate Walt now considering his final action

killing Gale, if you believe the final shot.

I liked how this episode explored the supporting characters outside the main characters' exposure to them. This was true with Mike and with Gale.

Overall, I think the episode made its stand: that last shot was the turning point. Everything BEFORE was like Walt and Sky moving into the house: justifiable under the circumstances and nothing that could be called "going too far." But once Walt leaves that house (reversed establishment shot, you will recall) he sets into motion that series of events that pushes him beyond that point of no return. He is now Heisenberg. Forever. Walter White is clearly now beyond redemption.

And I am strangely fine with that.

[Samalander]

Reckroi, Walt himself answers why he is untouchable:

The Spice drugs MUST flow. Production MUST continue. And if Gus wants to wage an expensive war against the cartel, he's going to need a huge revenue stream. Also, chemists may be a dime a dozen, but good chemists are rare, and good criminal chemists are almost non-existant. The only risk Walt is running is that someone might start taking his actions on a personal level and this might threaten his family.

[jurble]

Oh, and I love how Mike the Cleaner lost control the situation at the end. That mustn't happen to him often. Walt's apparent cowardly breakdown was probably saw he saw often, but damn Walt pulled a fast one on him.

[Analu]

I hate to be the one who keeps saying this (especially since I was sooo wrong about Skyler) but do we really know what happened? Was it just me or did the barrel of the gun shift to the side there at the end of the episode?

I think it was just the angle that the scene was shot in. I don't buy that Jesse shifted it at the last second and didn't kill Gale simply because it wouldn't lead to a very compelling season 4. Mike still has his gun pointed at Walt, and when he finds out that Gale's still alive, then he'll just kill Walt. That would work if S4 is just one episode. Or if Jesse kidnaps Gale, then S4 would start with Gus and Mike holding Walt hostage while they try to track down Jesse and Gale? It just seems like weak sauce to me.

Awesome finale (though I thought it was going to be longer), and I really love watching Walt's brain at work. It's fascinating seeing him think himself out of these adverse situations, and really makes me understand his bitter resentment at how his life turned out and why he takes so much enjoyment out of cooking grade-A batu. This guy's a straight-up genius and wasted 10-15 years of his life teaching high school chemistry. I'd be pissed, too.

[TrackerNeil]

But my problem is that what is stopping Gus from killing Walt now? If the REASON he was going to kill Walt was because Walt defied him BEFORE HOW IN THE NAME OF GOD DOES GUS NOT ORDER WALT DEAD AFTER THIS LAST EPISODE? It seems completely incongruous to me that IF Gus was angry at Walt for disobeying him in killing the two street thugs, how was that issue (of defiance) not exacerbated after this episode? How does the episode not end, truly, with Mike on the phone with Gus, with Gus hearing what is transpiring with Jesse, and how in the WORLD does Gus not see Walt's devastating pattern and say to Mike, "Kill him"? How does that not happen?

Well, if Gus orders Walt killed, and assuming Jesse has killed Gale, Gus is left with no production staff. That might not seem a hardship for a man as rich as Gus, unless of course you remember that the Mexican cartel is probing Gus' operation for weaknesses. If production stops, the cartel may be able to woo those dealers who once got their supply from Gus, eroding Gus' power and strengthening the cartel's. So Gus, rational guy that he is, may well decide that weakening his own position is not a price he is willing to pay for Walter's death, satisfying as that death may be.

To respond to your other point, Gus may feel that he has to move swiftly against Walt because Walter is quite simply too unpredictable to be allowed to run around causing trouble. And Gus is absolutely right. Walter is extremely intelligent and possesses a certain cunning, but he has little impulse control and reacts poorly to duress. (He demonstrates this second trait by double-dealing Mike even with a gun pointed at his face.) Walter is a risk every day he's sucking air, and Gus may have finally decided that the game was no longer worth the candle. He has to move cautiously, for reasons stated above, but he must move swiftly.

BTW, I think it's fantastic that Jesse advises Walt to go to the DEA and turn evidence against Gus. I watched the episode with my partner and Peter Dyckman-Campbell, and all three of us nodded vigorously at that completely sensible suggestion.

[Rockroi]

Well, if Gus orders Walt killed, and assuming Jesse has killed Gale, Gus is left with no production staff. That might not seem a hardship for a man as rich as Gus, unless of course you remember that the Mexican cartel is probing Gus' operation for weaknesses.

This is true and both you and Salamander pointed it out. I agree, but only to a point. If this is Gus' overarching concern - that production not stop or have any significant interruptions - than why is he even PLANNING on killing Walt? Its an idea that makes sense, but when pushed against the logic of the OTHER problems facing Gus, it actually does not hold up. I think Gus should have tabled this entire "Kill Walt" issue until the cartel problem blew over or was resolved. To try to kill your #1 source of funds NOW while the cartel issue is in full swing, I think, is boarder-line nonsensical. Therefore, while I agree with you that Gus PROBABLY CANNOT kill Walt right now, that was true REGARDLESS of what happened to Gale.

Further, how does this, ultimately, help Walt? He is still standing next to the washing-machine passage with Mike and a gun at his chest, and a probably menacingly angry Gus on the other end of the phone. What is to stop Gus from having the other guy go to Walt's house, tie Sky up and begin beating her within an inch of her life? Or kill one of his kids? This is, ultimately, a no-win situation for Walt who is only prolonging the inevitable.

To respond to your other point, Gus may feel that he has to move swiftly against Walt because Walter is quite simply too unpredictable to be allowed to run around causing trouble. And Gus is absolutely right. Walter is extremely intelligent and possesses a certain cunning, but he has little impulse control and reacts poorly to duress. (He demonstrates this second trait by double-dealing Mike even with a gun pointed at his face.)

I disagree completely with the assessment that Walt shows poor impulse control or that he does not act well under pressure, and I think that this season has proven the error of this assessment. At the very least, his issues come and go (he felt the need to lie to Gus when Hank was nearly killed- this was poor). However, overall, Walt has shown an impressive ability to anticipate how others will act: from Skylar to Gus, Walt has done a great job staying one step ahead of everyone else. Some of these situations have been done under EXTREME duress- take for example last night's episode, the prior episode where Jesse is nearly killed (Walt White to the rescue), or the RV episode where Walt successfully outsmarts Hank. Each of those incidents occurred under PAINFUL duress, and in each and every episode Walt played it perfectly: in each situation, Walt gets EXACTLY what he wants. Even when Jesse seemed like he was going to ruin Hank, Walt knew PRECISELY how to handle that situation. Thus, at the end of the last episode, Jesse, Sky, Gus, Mike and a few others have all acted EXACTLY as Walt wanted them to act. That's downright impressive.

BTW, I think it's fantastic that Jesse advises Walt to go to the DEA and turn evidence against Gus. I watched the episode with my partner and Peter Dyckman-Campbell, and all three of us nodded vigorously at that completely sensible suggestion.

Completely sensible? Really? More like "complete capitulation and Uncle Sam thanks you for the free $$$." Walt did not make that money just to give it away. And what would he do in the WPP? I envision him as the Christopher Walken character in "Meet Joe Dirt." And yes, this paragraph was 100% just an excuse to compare Breaking Bad with "Meet Joe Dirt." ;)

I think the advice is fine (but out-of place, frankly; does ANYONE think he'd go to the DEA now? Really?); my issue is the source: does Jesse sound like the guy who would advise ANYONE to go to the cops? I understand that the advice HAS to be given: to show that Walt is clearly doing this action (against Gale) because its best for Walt, and that unlike killing 8-Ball and the ass-clowns on the corner, this one is very selfish. That I understand. But Jesse? Don't really see it. Jesse, after all, could have gone to the cops with Walt or Hank and did neither for EXACTLY the same reasons that Walt is not going to the cops: because he sees a way out above going to the authorities.

[TrackerNeil]

This is true and both you and Salamander pointed it out. I agree, but only to a point. If this is Gus' overarching concern - that production not stop or have any significant interruptions - than why is he even PLANNING on killing Walt? Its an idea that makes sense, but when pushed against the logic of the OTHER problems facing Gus, it actually does not hold up. I think Gus should have tabled this entire "Kill Walt" issue until the cartel problem blew over or was resolved. To try to kill your #1 source of funds NOW while the cartel issue is in full swing, I think, is boarder-line nonsensical. Therefore, while I agree with you that Gus PROBABLY CANNOT kill Walt right now, that was true REGARDLESS of what happened to Gale.

Putting it off opens up Gus to more of the craziness from Walter, and Gus has already had a bellyful of it. It's a balancing act, and Gus had to weigh his desire to rid himself of Walt against his need to protect himself from the cartel.

Further, how does this, ultimately, help Walt? He is still standing next to the washing-machine passage with Mike and a gun at his chest, and a probably menacingly angry Gus on the other end of the phone. What is to stop Gus from having the other guy go to Walt's house, tie Sky up and begin beating her within an inch of her life? Or kill one of his kids? This is, ultimately, a no-win situation for Walt who is only prolonging the inevitable.

Well, I agree that Walt is only prolonging a showdown, but when you have a gun in your face sometimes you just have to play for time. As to your question, let me propose another one: What does Gus stand to gain from killing Skylar or Walt Jr.?

I disagree completely with the assessment that Walt shows poor impulse control or that he does not act well under pressure, and I think that this season has proven the error of this assessment. At the very least, his issues come and go (he felt the need to lie to Gus when Hank was nearly killed- this was poor). However, overall, Walt has shown an impressive ability to anticipate how others will act: from Skylar to Gus, Walt has done a great job staying one step ahead of everyone else. Some of these situations have been done under EXTREME duress- take for example last night's episode, the prior episode where Jesse is nearly killed (Walt White to the rescue), or the RV episode where Walt successfully outsmarts Hank. Each of those incidents occurred under PAINFUL duress, and in each and every episode Walt played it perfectly: in each situation, Walt gets EXACTLY what he wants. Even when Jesse seemed like he was going to ruin Hank, Walt knew PRECISELY how to handle that situation. Thus, at the end of the last episode, Jesse, Sky, Gus, Mike and a few others have all acted EXACTLY as Walt wanted them to act. That's downright impressive.

I don't think you understand what poor impulse control is. Walt is certainly intelligent, and capable of great ruthlessness when necessary, but he also has a tendency to lash out irrationally or unwisely when angry, like so...

Proof #1: He brasses off an New Mexico state trooper over essentially nothing and if not for Hank's timely intercession would have landed in jail over it.

Proof #2: He becomes jealously violent at Ted Beneke's office and succeeds only in toppling a potted plant and getting thrown out by security.

Proof #3: He almost gets into a fist fight with Hank over his insistence upon letting his teenage son drink whiskey until he gets ill enough to vomit in the swimming pool.

These things for an average person would just be signs of assholery; from a guy who's conducting a deeply dangerous criminal conspiracy they're signs of lunacy, because the last thing Walter needs is any official attention to his activities. We all have had a desire to strike out of anger, but most of us restrain those impulses because, well, they should be restrained. Walter, who lacks impulse control, gives these urges free rein.

Completely sensible? Really? More like "complete capitulation and Uncle Sam thanks you for the free $$$." Walt did not make that money just to give it away. And what would he do in the WPP? I envision him as the Christopher Walken character in "Meet Joe Dirt." And yes, this paragraph was 100% just an excuse to compare Breaking Bad with "Meet Joe Dirt." ;)

I think the advice is fine (but out-of place, frankly; does ANYONE think he'd go to the DEA now?

I said Jesse's advice was sound; I never said I thought for an instant Walter would take it. Walter is just not built that way. As to your point about the money, I guess Walter has to decide if he wants to live a life of relative peace with his family, or would prefer to exist as an outlaw, always at odds with one drug lord or another (Tuco, Gus, the cousins). However, I find it interesting that you think giving up drug money, earned on the pathetic addiction of other human beings, is "capitulation."

[Relic]

wow. that was great.