Best/Worst 5 POV characters?

[Lady Blackfish]

AryaSnow, I really like your explanations, and would've ranked Theon higher if he had had more chapters.

The Catelyn hate is refreshing.

For what would we do without people who hate the same as we do! ;)

[Mad Monkey]

Theon is good prep for Cersei's POV in the fourth book. I learned a lot of coping mechanisms for dealing with unbelievable arrogant and stupidity, including drinking anything while reading his chapters ("You did what to those little boys!? You're planning to do what to that teenage girl!?") and trying not to swear audibly.

[Lord Godric]

Best:

Tyrion - absolute favorite character. So cunning and clever. He's the dwarf of the family, but he's the most practical Lannister.

Jaime - After reading AGoT I never thought I'd say I liked Jaime. But his evolution through the following three books was fantastic. Besides the children in the series he has grown and changed the most. I respect the morals he grew when he lost his hand.

Arya - Arya is such a complex character in many ways. She started out not knowing how to use a sword but quickly learned and adapted to the settings she was in, many times. She's one of the few characters whose ending I can't even guess about.

Cersei - I absolutely hate Cersei, but her story arc in AFfC was great. To see her rise to and fall from power was fulfilling since I had been hating her since AGoT. When we finally get to see what she is thinking she's surprisingly well characterized, but still seems entirely evil.

Bran - Bran's story can be boring, but I can't wait to see what happens to him beyond the wall. I really like Bran's character and have felt connected to him since Jaime threw him from the window. I also love the backstory we get from the Reeds during their travels.

Honorable Mention: Ned. Ned was so naive but so likeable.

Worst:

Dany - I feel obligated to like Dany because I have a feeling when the series ends she'll be Queen, but I just have never been interested in her story. Since AGoT I have never felt connected to her and in CoK and SoS her story entirely declined. Personally I just don't care what she does in the free cities, I want her to land in Westeros already and start her rebellion. I'm hoping things for her get a lot more interesting in the coming book.

Catelyn - I love the information Catelyn supplied us about the war, but I would have much rather seen the war through Robb's eyes than Catelyn's. Catelyn is too rash sometimes and then unemotional at others. Like Dany, I never connected with her. I also did not like her when she became Lady Stoneheart.

Brienne - I like Brienne as a character, but her story was horribly boring especially in AFfC. The way Brienne approached finding Sansa was honorable for trying to help Catelyn, but incredibly stupid. I don't think Brienne is a bright character and she's honorable to a fault.

Samwell - Sam has hardly evolved since he was first introduced. I was hoping that during his time beyond The Wall he would stop thinking of himself as a coward, but he still sees himself in the same way and it's unrealistic that he wouldn't have grown by now. Everyone else has, especially those at the wall.

The Ironborn - Just never cared about what they had to offer, and after Theon turned on Winterfell I hated the Ironborn.

[Dena Crawford]

Before I get to mine...

4. Samwell - I find the night watch generally boring due to uknown reasons. Why do we only get nightwatch POVs from people who are good an honorable?

Remember Chett's POV? Not good. Not honorable. :laugh:

My favorites:

1. Arya. Oh my god. Not until Braavos did Arya's chapters stop making me cry. Her struggle to get to Winterfell, then Riverrun, then the Twins, then her aimlessness after pretty much everyone she has ever known is (supposedly dead), culminating in her ending up in assassin training at the age of TEN. The whole thing is like a procession of heart-wrenching doom. Her chapters have scenes that literally haunt me. Stabbing the Tickler over and over and over again comes to mind.

2. Cersei. The mind-blowing stupidity and paranoia of her actions are a real nail-biter for me, and KL scenes have always been my favorite. Its weird, but she actually inspires pity in me, possibly because I don't believe I have ever read a more self-deluded character.

3. Tyrion. Yes, I am Lannister biased :D. I really really really love his insights, his character, and his intrigues. He has had my attention from book one, and his emotions, triumphs and failings never fail to strike a chord with me. His insights on Cersei and their power struggles are awesome. And it gets me closer to Varys, who I believe is the character to keep an eye on!

4. Sansa. I have always liked her, even when she was a stupid deluded girl. And she is currently in LF's grasp, who is like Varys a major major player, and no one seems to figured that out yet! I also want to see her progress to becoming a major player herself. And I want to see her slap Sweetrobin. Hard.

5. Jaime. His character evolution is, with the exception of Arya's, the most interesting in the books. He fascinates me (like all the Lannisters do) and his story in ASOS was the best in the books (besides Arya). However, he gets a little more tedious in AFFC, but I am hoping he livens up again soon.

My least favorites:

1. Samwell. I am So. Damn. Sick. Of. His. Whining. Seriously. The only thing that keeps me hopeful is that he is now at the Citadel, and I have a feeling that his story will be much more interesting soon. Or at least I pray.

2. Jon. On my rereads I tend to skip anything to do with the Night Watch, the Others, and the North, so it really isnt Jon's POV that is at fault. The only thing keeping me interested in his POV is possible R+L=J and its implications, and the fact that Stannis is there now. Maybe that can liven things up.

3. Bran. Again, just bored with the Wall, the North, the whole bit is just kinda boring. On the plus side, I really liked the story that Meera told. Insight into the past is always good.

4. Brienne. LOVED her as a non-POV with Jaime, those were some of the best chapters in the books. However, the Sansa Search is a really boring plot, it all seems pointless, and I just can't stay interested.

5. Any other POV involving the boring Night's Watch. :D

[Lady Winter Rose]

It is really difficult to say which are my 5 W&B POVs.

I'd say:

Best:

1)Daenerys - I always love Mary Sue character

2)Bran - I feel sorry for him and his story is interesting (at least for me).

3)Jon - honorable, just, kind, good... What else say?

4)Arya - poor little kid who is still wildfull and hopefull

5)Tryion - Do I need more to say?

Worst:

1)Victorian

2)Aeron Greyjoy

3)Brienne

4)Cersei

5)Davos

All these characters are boring and pointless.

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

Bests

1) Daenarys!!! gush warning/ Dany is sooo ridiculously awesome. Dragons! And she's not an idiot! And horrible things happen to her but she manages to come out of them intact through her own SMART choices. She takes counsel politely and thoughtfully as a leader but ultimately goes her own way. I also like the tension of her becoming this incredible queen on another continent that will one day turn everything on its head - makes one realize the machinations of Cersei Lannister will in the end, matter not a whit. /end gush

2) Sansa OH man, I hated Sansa in aGoT with all the rest on first read... but then in the next two books - it's just so heartbreaking... She's really just a typical kid, rebelling against her family a LITTLE BIT, and as "punishment" she has to suffer beatings, potential rape, emotional abuse, and the complete and utter crushing of every one of her dreams. THERE ARE NO TRUE KNIGHTS! Thank you GRRM.

3) Ned Stark - his chapters were the most masterfully crafted by GRRM. We are sucked in by his honor, his seeming practical good sense... We come to believe that he's going ot set everything right that is wrong with this dirty city... then BAM! And on reread it's even better when we can read between the lines and realize how naive Ned is... Amazing.

4) Jaime - Oh Jaime, chapters... what would I do without you? I love GRRM's handling of this character. Although he's sitting within spitting distance of many major characters during the first two books, we almost never get firsthand detail about him. It's all - what do Ned and Catelyn think of him? And the opinions of Cersei and Tyrion? And when we finally get a perspective from the guy we've come to fear and hate... it's such a revelation. Plus the guy's hilarious.

5) Catelyn - She gets to see so many interesting parts of Westeros - Renly's army, Robb's battles, the Aerie, etc. Robb's a favorite of mine, so I really enjoyed reading Cat chapters in aCoK and aSoS. And then there's everyone's favorite wedding... I was irritated with her on the first read, but subsequent rereads have made me realize that was all GRRM biasing me with his PoV's in aGoT, much as my early opinions of Ned, Jon, Sansa, Arya, Tyrion, and Jaime were extremely biased.

Worsts

1) Jon - rant warning/ Everyone loves Jon right? I liked him the first time I read aGoT, but on reread, I realized he's a whiny, entitled infant. Too much like the college kids I teach. He's incredibly arrogant and treats Sam like he's an idiot (while Sam is a coward, he's not an idiot). Plus, Jon never has to make any hard decisions about ANYTHING but everything always works out for him anyway. /end rant

Anyway, some interesting stuff happens in Jon's chapters (although, mostly not until late in aSoS), but having to read them from his perspective makes me want to throw the book across the room.

2) All new aFfC PoV's (yes, they get only 1 slot - Cersei, Brienne, Dorne, and all Greyjoys save Theon)

3) Arya - eh... I was bored in aCoK and aSoS other than the scenes with the Hound near the end of aSoS. Usually I would groan when I saw her name. I liked her on first read in aGoT but on reread, I realized she really was a brat. She showed no sympathy whatsoever to Sansa for Lady's death (she basically spit in Sansa's face in their last encounter in aGoT).

4) Tyrion - too much fking whore sex. Get over it. Plus, he makes a lot of really brutal decisions as hand, most of which turn out to be ill-advised for himself and for the people of King's Landing. His PoV's are the most biased in the series, which is both interesting and frustrating...

5) Sam - /sigh I actually like Sam, but unfortunately his PoV's in aFFC got to be too much whining. And in aSoS they were OK but not phenomenal. At least they were a look at the northern front that didn't require me to read about Jon Snow.

[nothatso]

I'm sorry,but Jon is whiny and entitled, but Daenerys isn't? What? Every time Dany complains about the Starks or the Usurper or this and that having to do with the fall of her family, I think she sounds quite whiny and entitled.

[feardeathbywater]

When is Jon whiny? He gets sore when bastardy is brought up, but other than that he seems pretty humble. If anything he's overly duty-conscious, almost a fanatic (which, given his role, is not necessarily a bad thing.) Most of his complaints are never actually uttered aloud.

The difference between him and Dany (and Dany is certainly driven by duty as well) is that she is trying to make herself mistress of Westeros and Jon is trying to be a good servant. For that reason he is much easier to pity.

[FatCatOberyn]

Remember Chett's POV? Not good. Not honorable. :laugh:

Yes, I remember. Not good, not honorable and DEAD (most likely) :).I would have liked it better if we had Chett POVs instead of Sam's POVs.

Jon - rant warning/ Everyone loves Jon right?

I don't. I despise the bastard. I hated the fact that he became Commander of the NW, although I liked the way his friends started thinking less of him because of it (he always has time to play with his sword, yet he seems to have forgotten about them). Even Sam started doubting him.

I'm sorry,but Jon is whiny and entitled, but Daenerys isn't? What? Every time Dany complains about the Starks or the Usurper or this and that having to do with the fall of her family, I think she sounds quite whiny and entitled.

Daenerys is not as whiny as Jon, but she is also irritating.

[Daena the Defiant]

When is Jon whiny? He gets sore when bastardy is brought up, but other than that he seems pretty humble. If anything he's overly duty-conscious, almost a fanatic (which, given his role, is not necessarily a bad thing.) Most of his complaints are never actually uttered aloud.

Now who does that sound like?

Hmmmm.....

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

When is Jon whiny? He gets sore when bastardy is brought up, but other than that he seems pretty humble. If anything he's overly duty-conscious, almost a fanatic (which, given his role, is not necessarily a bad thing.) Most of his complaints are never actually uttered aloud.

I must admit, it is mostly in the first few chapters. Here's some examples.

In his first chapter, he is audibly pissed that he (a bastard) doesn't get to sit with royalty. Cmon kid. Neither do the other 200 people in the hall.

He spends the first chapter at the wall whingeing about how unworthy the other trainees are (!!) and then beating the crap out of them for being so unworthy. And complaining about how he shouldn't have to listen to Thorne because he's not as honorable a lord as Ned Stark.

Immediately after taking his vows at the Night's Watch, he runs off to fight for Robb. His thinking is all about how the NW rules shouldn't apply to him because his situation is unique and he's a special little flower.

He's super pissed that he doesn't get to be a ranger (wahh!) until someone smarter beats it into his head that he's being hand fed a direct route to leadership.

Jon also thinks about how Sam is so stupid for finding all these dusty maps and doing research on The Others and the history of the Night's Watch (oh yeah, learning about dragonglass is super boring and pointless Jon).

Once he joins the wildlings he does a little better, but all he's really thinking about there is staying alive and how awesome sex is.

I don't really care how audibly whiny Jon is. I care about what I have to read - and what I have to read is what is in Jon's head. This is usually 1) he is mistreated, 2) keeping his vows is a super drag 3) other people aren't as good as him (Sam, Chett, Thorne, Wildlings), 4) super short-sighted plans that are quickly shown to be faulty by smarter people.

IN SUM, the start of many Jon chapters is Jon being super emo about something, and then a smarter person in authority slapping sense into him (and usually also giving him some kind of award at the same time). The frustrating thing is that it starts all over in the next chapter.

The difference between him and Dany (and Dany is certainly driven by duty as well) is that she is trying to make herself mistress of Westeros and Jon is trying to be a good servant. For that reason he is much easier to pity.

Dany is the true heir to the throne of Westeros so I don't really see her choosing this path as an entitlement issue. She sees it as her duty at least as much as Jon sees the NW as his duty. The difference is that Jon spends a lot of time mentally complaining about how hard his lot is and how he deserves more than being in the "lowly" Night's Watch.

Dany expresses being tired from time to time, but that's the most complaining she ever does about her place in the world (and she is building her empire back up from literally 1 knight and 3 warriors whereas Jon has a huge support network - actually two networks - his family AND the NW).

[Daena the Defiant]

Dany expresses being tired from time to time, but that's the most complaining she ever does about her place in the world (and she is building her empire back up from literally 1 knight and 3 warriors whereas Jon has a huge support network - actually two networks - his family AND the NW).

well said.

[Loren]

HHHMMM..LET ME THINK,SO MUCH TO CHOOSE FROM!

The Best

1.Tyrion

2.Arya

3.John

4.Jaime

5.Brien

And i wont call it them the worst,just not as interesting

1.The Iron Island chapters.

2.Davos

3.Sansa

4.Arianne

cant think of any more i dont like.

[IceNeedle]

In his first chapter, he is audibly pissed that he (a bastard) doesn't get to sit with royalty. Cmon kid. Neither do the other 200 people in the hall.

The other 200 people in the hall aren't the son of the Lord of the Hall, and aren't being singled out and separated from their brothers and sisters for having the gall to be born of a different mother.

He spends the first chapter at the wall whingeing about how unworthy the other trainees are (!!) and then beating the crap out of them for being so unworthy. And complaining about how he shouldn't have to listen to Thorne because he's not as honorable a lord as Ned Stark.

Yeah, I really don't see it this way at all. There's a difference between being "not as honorable" and being an utter ass. Jon was deluded and disappointed that the Ranger recruits weren't reasonably good fighters to start with, but he learned that lesson quickly, and it never comes up again. And note how quickly he wins over these "unworthy" boys by showing them some respect. He also "saves" Sam by convincing Aemon to take him on as a steward.

Immediately after taking his vows at the Night's Watch, he runs off to fight for Robb. His thinking is all about how the NW rules shouldn't apply to him because his situation is unique and he's a special little flower.

Well, first of all, that is not immediately afterwards. First there's the whole wight thing (where he saves Mormon't life, if you'll recall). And no, his thinking is not at all what you're attributing it to. His motivation is to avenge the death of his father, who had been the most important person in his life, and his primary role model. He fully acknowledges that the rules apply to him, and that he'll be a wanted man the rest of his life. So your last sentence is simply preposterous.

He's super pissed that he doesn't get to be a ranger (wahh!) until someone smarter beats it into his head that he's being hand fed a direct route to leadership.

Yeah, it takes him a bit of time and help to get over the disappointment of losing what he had aspired to ever since arriving, and see that his position was actually improved. This transformation takes all of about 2 pages of text.

Jon also thinks about how Sam is so stupid for finding all these dusty maps and doing research on The Others and the history of the Night's Watch (oh yeah, learning about dragonglass is super boring and pointless Jon).

This I don't recall, but since everything else here is highly filtered through an anti-Jon bias, I'm going to assume it's overstated.

Jon has had to deal his entire life with thinly-veiled antagonism from his effective mother, singled out and dismissed as an unworthy person by just about everyone else outside his family -- all for a condition he had no control over. It's amazing he turned out as well-adjusted as he did. Men with lesser character would have run away from it all, probably to lead a life of crime. I really don't understand the Jon hate.

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

Jon has had to deal his entire life with thinly-veiled antagonism from his effective mother, singled out and dismissed as an unworthy person by just about everyone else outside his family -- all for a condition he had no control over. It's amazing he turned out as well-adjusted as he did. Men with lesser character would have run away from it all, probably to lead a life of crime. I really don't understand the Jon hate.

Let's not derail too much - this thread is a very subjective one ("which chapter titles made you cheer/groan" is not something we can convince each other of). Either you enjoy reading a PoV or you don't. My original post was clearly hyperbolic, but I think it contains at least a couple tiny kernels of truth. :P

Anyway, since you're new if you want to read more about the kinds of things that bother me about Jon, check out this thread: (http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/43365-if-character-x-was-jonned/ ). Or if you want to know why some of us defend Cat, try this one: ( ).

[IceNeedle]

Anyway, since you're new if you want to read more about the kinds of things that bother me about Jon, check out this thread: (http://asoiaf.wester...r-x-was-jonned/ ). Or if you want to know why some of us defend Cat, try this one: ( http://asoiaf.wester...c/3955-catelyn/ ).

Thanks for the thread references. I like Jon (mangst and all), but he obviously gets bailed out by lucky timing rather frequently. I think part of this, however, is deliberate on GRRM's part: it almost seems clear that Jon is being "watched over" by some supernatural force, keeping him moving towards a purpose (not necessarily unlike Dany). If you don't like the concept of predestination, you probably won't like his or Dany's plotlines, but it's clear that ASOIAF is rather replete with portents and such, so I've accepted that Jon will come out OK, either through his device or that of some deus ex machina, at least until the end.

For Catelyn, I can't get past her extreme dislike of Jon. Without that aspect of her character, she would at worst be middling for me (though her freeing of Jaime was incredibly shortsided and borderline traitorous to the North). 100% of the blame for Jon's bastardy falls on Ned's shoulders; yet she continues to love the guilty Ned while hating the innocent Jon. I simply can't forgive that warped sense of justice.

[facial forest]

Favorits

Jon

Ayra

Davos

Bran

Eddard

Least Favorits

Sansa

Cersi (execpt in the end of AFFC when she and her life are falling apart)

Catelyn

[Tomacatawata]

Favorite: I no particular order

1)Sansa - Love her, love the politicking that goes on around her, even loved the naivety in the begining

2)Tyrion - Nuff said

3)Asha - She's probably the most sensible person in Westeros.

4)Catelyn - exciting and excellent politicking.

5)Cersei - I never knew what was going to happen next with her. I loved it

Hated: I only really dislike two.

1)Jon - I always knew what was going to happen next and what his decisions would be. I knew that everyone would trust him, and respect him if not love him. Typical fantasy hero archtype.

2)Dany - I enjoyed her chapters for Jorah Mormont. That's about it. She's currently a (everso)slighlty more realistic ideal ruler archetype that you see in fantasy. If it wasn't for the fact that her actions has slight repercussions she would be a full blown mary sue.

Also, how is it that people like Theon chapters but hate Cersei? If anything Theon is even more incomptent and arrogant than Cersei.

[Lady Blackfish]

For a lot of people, though not necessarily everyone of course, it's because Cersei was presented initially as something of an intimidating foe. Granted, it may primarily be because she was up against Ned, who isn't really written as a political genius, but whatever the actualities of her abilities, her stature in the narrative takes a hit once she gets her own chapters. Theon was just always Theon, a train wreck. I do think the characters have a lot of similarities, personally.

100% of the blame for Jon's bastardy falls on Ned's shoulders; yet she continues to love the guilty Ned while hating the innocent Jon. I simply can't forgive that warped sense of justice.

She pretty much has to love Ned, she has nobody else in the North for companionship and she is pretty dependent on his good will for basically her entire happiness. Brides move far, far away from their homes, she has no people of her own there, and once she's stuck in that marriage with that man and his bastard son all she can do is make the best of it. She tried to love Ned despite Jon, and she succeeded; she tried to love Jon, and she failed. It is really hard to bear a grudge against a man while having to obey his will and submit to his sexual advances. That is demeaning. On the other hand, if she can salvage a loving relationship out of what landed on her doorstep, then it's a fulfilling life. She doesn't get to leave him, she can't grab a quickie divorce in Reno and then go support herself by slinging hash down at the Five and Dine. She's stuck, and she can either be stuck and miserable or stuck and relatively happy.

If Ned had wanted no ill feelings to crop up he really could have maintained more of a distinction between his other children and Jon, even while raising Jon within the castle and giving him a good home, attention, playmates (maybe even a mother figure who wasn't his jilted wife).

[Dreadwolf]

@Tomacatawata

I think that there is some ambiguity with your saying that

people like Theon chapters but hate Cersei?

But considering the next line of your post and the thread title I guess you are envisioning the readers* attitude towards Theon & Cersei as persons and not that they find Theon*s chapters more interesting and readable.

Well I am not exactly Cersei*s best defender but there is also that: with all her ugliness (inside) she did what she did out of love to her children, while Theon have shown (in so far) that he would do anything which he considers beneficial for . . . Theon.

Anyway IMO It would have been very pervert turn of destiny if these two nobles had become a family couple (which was considered although not very seriously at one point of the story).