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Brienne's one word.


Sun Tzu

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My first thought after reading that chapter was, "Oathbreaker." After all, Catelyn swore vows to Brienne, too.

Catelyn swore not to dishonour Brienne. She doesn't break that vow.

Two books ago, if Catelyn had asked Brienne to kill Jaime, Brienne would have clicked her heels and said "Yessir!" Remember that CoK ends on a cliffhanger about that exact question: does Catelyn order Brienne to kill Jaime?

No discussions about dishonourable commands then. In fact, Brienne hated the order she actually got: to protect Jaime instead of killing him.

Now, to books later, the roles are exactly reversed. Catelyn actually orders Brienne to kill Jaime. From Catelyn's POV there is even more reason for that now than there was in CoK. Two books ago, Jaime was just the attempted murderer of her eight-year old son. Today, Jaime is also the attempted murderer of her nephew (whom Jaime promised to fling over the walls of Riverrun) and thrice the oathbreaker that he ever was (not restoring Arya and Sansa, and attacking Riverrun). There is no reason for Catelyn to suspect that her command to kill Jaime Lannister is even remotely questionable.

Or what kind of work did you think a sworn sword is supposed to perform? Slaughter cows? Needlework? Only kill people who tried to rape her?

Brienne is a sword sword. Whatever wetworks Catelyn asks she must do, but Catelyn swore to not dishonour her. Certainly the command to kill an enemy is within the realms of acceptable commands? (Jaime Lannister is working for the crown, he is hanging outlaws, he is the Lord Commander of the ill-born King Tommen's kingsguard, he is a Lannister, he did push Bran out of the window, he did take Riverrun, his regards were sent when Bolton killed Robb., etc.).

If not Jaime, who else would you think Catelyn could be reasonably expected to have Brienne sent to kill? Is there anybody in Westeros more fit to be attacked by Catelyn's sworn shield? Is "Lord Walder" really the only valid target?

I don't get it. Catelyn acts correctly. She certainly isn't an oathbreaker. (Merciless? She sure is. That's the new and improved Catelyn for you. No mouse, she.)

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If only Lady Stoneheart had stuck to hanging characters we don't like.

Silly silly girl

And lets's never forget the last words the living Catelyn Stark ever heard were "Jaime Lannister sends his regards."

Then her son dies on a lance shoved through his chest. Pretty thing for

a mom who remembers birthing a little baby fifteen plus years ago, to see.

Or I guess Catelyn "shoulda been psychic" and just known Jaime had nothing to do with the Red Wedding.

And you know what guys, just cause Thoros say "a grimmer shadow leads us now" I would be careful about assuming too much. Yeh, no s**t, a grimmer shadow leads you---well, duh.... wouldn't have guessed that from all the hanging corpses.

It like all the assumptions that Jaime's just going to let Cersei hang in her dungeon. All burning a piece of paper with a message on means is

you've burnt a piece of paper with a message on it.

Now I don't that Thoros is thrilled with any of this but there's no evidence of any sort that his morality is somehow superior (he's a Red Priest, yeh so, what's

the woman who's hanging out with Stannis again...right a Red Priestess)

I think this entire series is about the danger of making assumptions.

And what happens to human beings in a brutalizing war. All of them.

And I think the word, also a name , is Ice.

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You guys just got me thinking and this is what I came up with, call it crackpot, but maybe.

She does yell "sword". She challenges Berric to a duel and if she wins, pod gets let go, and she will go kill Jaime. Berric wants to die for good so he fights her, dies, Thoros is sworn to not ressurect him this time.

Brienne lives, goes on her way, the whole time in a conflict with herself on what she should do, kill Jaime and keep her oath to Caitlyn, or not kill Jaime. She cant kill Jaime when she confronts him and the Oathkeeper becomes an Oathbreaker, therefore mirroring her beloved Jaime, since Jaime is a oathbreaker as well.

Just specualtion, and if its been said before, sorry.

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You guys just got me thinking and this is what I came up with, call it crackpot, but maybe.

She does yell "sword". She challenges Berric to a duel and if she wins, pod gets let go, and she will go kill Jaime. Berric wants to die for good so he fights her, dies, Thoros is sworn to not ressurect him this time.

Brienne lives, goes on her way, the whole time in a conflict with herself on what she should do, kill Jaime and keep her oath to Caitlyn, or not kill Jaime. She cant kill Jaime when she confronts him and the Oathkeeper becomes an Oathbreaker, therefore mirroring her beloved Jaime, since Jaime is a oathbreaker as well.

Just specualtion, and if its been said before, sorry.

Um, Beric died when he gave the "kiss of life" to Catelyn and transferred his "fire" into her.

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Um, Beric died when he gave the "kiss of life" to Catelyn and transferred his "fire" into her.

Oh crap, oops you are right. Damn, I liked my theory too. I have to read the book a second time, just read it once and of course read it fast as I was too excited, but I lent my book to my co-worker and he takes forever to read a book.

Thanks though your right, i remember now.

Well she fights Gendry then and he becomes undead! HA, I doubt it though

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Catelyn swore not to dishonour Brienne. She doesn't break that vow.

Perhaps not. When I wrote that, I was thinking of Brienne's life debt to Jaime, and of the oaths she mentioned swearing to him. Now that I think about it though, "life debts" don't seem to be a part of Westerosi culture, do they? They are in so many other fantasy cultures that I got confused. Sorry about that.

What exactly did Brienne swear to Jaime? Was finding Sansa and protecting her the whole of it? I thought I remembered something about reclaiming his honor, but it's probably just faulty memory.

Now, to books later, the roles are exactly reversed. Catelyn actually orders Brienne to kill Jaime. From Catelyn's POV there is even more reason for that now than there was in CoK. Two books ago, Jaime was just the attempted murderer of her eight-year old son. Today, Jaime is also the attempted murderer of her nephew (whom Jaime promised to fling over the walls of Riverrun) and thrice the oathbreaker that he ever was (not restoring Arya and Sansa, and attacking Riverrun). There is no reason for Catelyn to suspect that her command to kill Jaime Lannister is even remotely questionable.

Oh, Catelyn has every right to hate Jaime, and I wouldn't blame her for trying to kill him, although I think of Catelyn and Stoneheart as two distinct personalities. It's ordering Brienne to kill him that I thought was where the problem lay, but if there's nothing in the oaths Brienne swore to him that actually causes a conflict . . .

Brienne is a sword sword. Whatever wetworks Catelyn asks she must do, but Catelyn swore to not dishonour her. Certainly the command to kill an enemy is within the realms of acceptable commands? (Jaime Lannister is working for the crown, he is hanging outlaws, he is the Lord Commander of the ill-born King Tommen's kingsguard, he is a Lannister, he did push Bran out of the window, he did take Riverrun, his regards were sent when Bolton killed Robb., etc.).

Actually, Catelyn swore to "ask no service that might bring Brienne into dishonor." Again, I don't blame her for wanting Jaime dead, and I never accused her of intentionally breaking her oath, but I'd hoped that this might have been a way for Brienne to get out of having to choose without breaking her oath to Cat. Oh well, so much for that.

If not Jaime, who else would you think Catelyn could be reasonably expected to have Brienne sent to kill? Is there anybody in Westeros more fit to be attacked by Catelyn's sworn shield? Is "Lord Walder" really the only valid target?

Of course not. There's Roose Bolton, Walder Frey's children and grandchildren, Cersei Lannister . . . all sorts of people . . . which is sort of irrelevant to our discussion.

I don't get it. Catelyn acts correctly. She certainly isn't an oathbreaker. (Merciless? She sure is. That's the new and improved Catelyn for you. No mouse, she.)

New and improved? This is where I have to disagree with you. Stoneheart seems an abomination to me, much like the wights, unGregor, and even Lord Beric. That isn't to say that I don't fantasize about Walder Frey recognizing her and soiling his breeches right before she drives a dagger through his heart, but all men must die . . . and all men should die.

(I wonder how the Faceless Men will react when they learn of all these undead walking around?)

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I hate to bust EVERYBODY's bubble including GRRM's, but how the hell can she say ANYTHING with a noose around her neck.

Try this:

Take a length of clothesline. Loop it around your neck. Have your friend or neighbor hoist you up onto a tree in your front yard, and then try to say anything. "Sword", "noose" (which seems kinda redundant, eh), "antidisestablishmentarianism"....

Seriously.

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It like all the assumptions that Jaime's just going to let Cersei hang in her dungeon. All burning a piece of paper with a message on means is

you've burnt a piece of paper with a message on it.

"Does my lord wish to answer?" the maester asked, after a long silence.

A snowflake landed on the letter. As it melted, the ink began to blue. Jaime rolled the parchment up again, as tight as one hand would allow, and handed it to Peck. "No," he said. "Put this in the fire." (AFFC, pg. 671)

I doubt that the scene would be written this way if there wasn't some deeper meaning behind it. Considering the relationship between Jaime and Cersei at this point, it is very unlikely that Jaime threw the letter in the fire just because he felt like it.

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I really hope her last word is "Bitch", but I doubt it.

I too think she will say "sword" to save her friends. I hope she then puts Oathkeeper/Ice into her unliving heart, and the outlaws rejoice... although once again I doubt it.

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Just as long as Brienne doesn't come back as UnBrienne. And I'm bummed that UnCatelyn who has made the worst choices of any woman character next to Scarlett O'Hara, is worse now that she's Undead. Please, no more undeads.

I have to agree with you. This literary device is getting used too much. Consider that GRRM has a lot more characters to dispose of, including Euron Croweye. Recall Dany's foreseeings in the House of the Undying in Qarth. :D

"Where is the regiment riding?"

"To hell, Sharp, or to glory. It depends on one's point of view."

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Brienne knows something else that Stoneheart doesn't know - and that is her sword Oathkeeper is Ice re-formed.

When I first read the chapter, I thought that UnCat knew it was Ice. Just based on the, "Oathkeeper, you call it?" question. Why say that unless you know it was called something else at one time.

-SoJ

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Brienne knows something else that Stoneheart doesn't know - and that is her sword Oathkeeper is Ice re-formed.

When I first read the chapter, I thought that UnCat knew it was Ice. Just based on the, "Oathkeeper, you call it?" question. Why say that unless you know it was called something else at one time.

-SoJ

I figured it was because of the Irony of the Kingslayer giving her a sword, and calling it Oathkeeper. Not only that, but also the fact that she feels Brienne has broken her oath to her.

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Brienne knows something else that Stoneheart doesn't know - and that is her sword Oathkeeper is Ice re-formed.

When I first read the chapter, I thought that UnCat knew it was Ice. Just based on the, "Oathkeeper, you call it?" question. Why say that unless you know it was called something else at one time.

-SoJ

“Don’t we, though?†The big man laughed. “I think we might. There’s a stink of lion about you, lady.â€

“That’s not so.â€

Another of the outlaws stepped forward, a younger man in a greasy sheepskin jerkin. In his hand was Oathkeeper. “This says it is.†His voice was frosted with the accents of the north. He slid the sword from its scabbard and placed it in front of Lady Stoneheart. In the light from the firepit the red and black ripples in the blade almost seem to move, but the woman in grey had eyes only for the pommel: a golden lion’s head, with ruby eyes that shone like two red stars.

--------

The woman in grey gave no answer. She studied the sword, the parchment, the bronze-and-iron crown. Finally she reached up under her jaw and grasped her neck, as if she meant to throttle herself. Instead she spoke . . . Her voice was halting, broken, tortured. The sound seemed to come from her throat, part croak, part wheeze, part death rattle. The language of the damned, thought Brienne. “I don’t understand. What did she say?â€

“She asked the name of this blade of yours,†said the young northman in the sheepskin jerkin.

“Oathkeeper,†Brienne answered.

The woman in greyhissed through her fingers. Her eyes were two red pits burning in the shadows. She spoke again.

“No, she says. Call it Oathbreaker, she says. It was made for treachery and murder. She names it False Friend. Like you.â€

Hopefully this clarifies everything for you. Stoneheart did not know the name of the sword or it's origins other than it's Lannister markings.

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