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Arab guilty of rape after consensual sex with Jew


Eurytus

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/21/arab-guilty-rape-consensual-sex-jew

An Israeli man of Arab origin has been convicted of rape after having consensual sex with a woman who had believed him to be a fellow Jew.

Sabbar Kashur, 30, was sentenced to 18 months in prison on Monday after the court ruled that he was guilty of rape by deception. According to the complaint filed by the woman with the Jerusalem district court, the two met in downtown Jerusalem in September 2008 where Kashur, an Arab from East Jerusalem, introduced himself as a Jewish bachelor seeking a serious relationship. The two then had consensual sex in a nearby building before Kashur left.

When she later found out that he was not Jewish but an Arab, she filed a criminal complaint for rape and indecent assault.

I have no idea how this works. If you tell someone you are an ethnicity/religion you are not and they have sex with you then you are guilty of rape by deception? I can't say that I've ever heard of a law like this.

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It checks out, I think. If you defraud someone their consent isn't valid.

At what point does it end? A guy might tell a woman he's a surgeon despite being a shelf stacker. That doesn't mean he raped her.

Making this a sex crime seems a bit ludicrous.

As the article says, if the situations had been reversed would the same crime have been applied?

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So if a guy tells a girl he's a rich, successful businessman with his own sports car and she's so impressed she sleeps with him, but it later turns out he works at McDonalds and lives in his parents' basement, she could have him charged with rape by deception?

What if it's the other way around and a guy sleeps with a woman because she says she's rich and then it turns out not to be true? He could then have her charged? Seriously?

I get the 'deception' part and can even understand wanting to see someone punished for it, but the actual sex act itself was consensual. Separating the two out here would seem more sensible.

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At what point does it end? A guy might tell a woman he's a surgeon despite being a shelf stacker. That doesn't mean he raped her.

Making this a sex crime seems a bit ludicrous.

As the article says, if the situations had been reversed would the same crime have been applied?

The principle has precedent (usually it's a case of someone impersonating someone specifically, often the spouse, though)

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So if a guy tells a girl he's a rich, successful businessman with his own sports car and she's so impressed she sleeps with him, but it later turns out he works at McDonalds and lives in his parents' basement, she could have him charged with rape by deception?

What if it's the other way around and a guy sleeps with a woman because she says she's rich and then it turns out not to be true? He could then have her charged? Seriously?

I get the 'deception' part and can even understand wanting to see someone punished for it, but the actual sex act itself was consensual. Separating the two out here would seem more sensible.

No, it wasn't consensual. She agreed to have sex with a specific individual, that individual turned out to not exist.

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No, it wasn't consensual. She agreed to have sex with a specific individual, that individual turned out to not exist.

Misrepresenting your ethnicity is not a sex crime though.

From the story she went direct from the place they met to a close by building to have sex with him. So it doesn't sound as if she took overly much time to find out who he was.

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So if a woman misrepresents her breasts as real and they're fake, is that a breach of consent?

Sorry, this is idiotic on some intrinsic level. Misrepresentation is not by itself a breach of consent; the person's existence doesn't change because he lied.

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I seem to recall there being a somewhat similar US case... although I don't think there were criminal charges involved (sorry, too lazy to look it up). But it had to do with a man who told a woman he couldn't get her pregnant, then, surprise, he did, and it turned out he'd knowingly lied and she got some kind of huge damage award (IIRC the man was actually her divorce attorney). So, obviously there's a line somewhere, but this Israeli law seems to go too far, to me.

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No, it wasn't consensual. She agreed to have sex with a specific individual, that individual turned out to not exist.

Here's a case from Massachusetts with the opposite ruling, that consent obtained by fraud did not constitute rape (a guy pretended to be his brother to sleep with the brother's girlfriend):

Taking the evidence in the light most favorable to the Commonwealth, we assume that the defendant fraudulently induced the complainant to have intercourse. However, as noted above, the rule of Commonwealth v. Goldenberg, 338 Mass. 377 , 384, cert. denied, 359 U.S. 1001 (1959), is that intercourse where consent is achieved by fraud does not constitute rape. That rule compels the conclusion that there was no evidence of rape in this case, and we decline to overrule the Goldenberg decision.

I guess it depends on the jurisdiction :dunno:

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Wow, I really can't see any reason for you to defend this other then shallow, unabashed bigotry and racism. Let me guess, Israeli Arabs totally have equal rights, right?

People like you are precisely what is wrong with the world.

I wonder if he even claimed he was Jewish to her or if the court and woman decided that he should explicitly tell her he was Arab. Of course, even if he didn't explicitly claim to be Jewish I'm sure you'd be in favor of the sentence and support this racist woman anyway. Disgusting.

+ :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You don't know me very well, do you?

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Galactus,

No, it wasn't consensual. She agreed to have sex with a specific individual, that individual turned out to not exist.

So, just to be clear, then, you think that all lies violate the notion of consent? Any sex under any deliberately engineered pretenses is necessarily rape?

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It is considered rape if you impersonate someone's spouse and then have sex with them. However, that sort of deception is discernably different from being a stranger who simply lies about his ethnicity.

It's tempting to suspect that the woman in question was more than a bit bigoted.

Oh, no doubt. That said, I see nothing wrong with the principle of the ruling, which is at least somwhat logical.

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Wow, I really can't see any reason for you to defend this other then shallow, unabashed bigotry and racism. Let me guess, Israeli Arabs totally have equal rights, right?

People like you are precisely what is wrong with the world.

I wonder if he even claimed he was Jewish to her or if the court and woman decided that he should explicitly tell her he was Arab. Of course, even if he didn't explicitly claim to be Jewish I'm sure you'd be in favor of the sentence and support this racist woman anyway. Disgusting.

Wow.

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