Mad Men - Season 4 - SPOILERS Thread

[Commodore]

Glenn is smooth, a young Don in the making.

[Rhom]

So much for "ass kicking Don."

I was surprised to see Freddy back, but it really led into some nice conflict for Peggy. I like seeing how she has grown and now recognizes that someone she once looked up to was really nothing special to begin with.

Lee Jr really stole the show in this episode. The man gives me the creeps every minute he's on the screen. Roger really understood his position in the whole relationship. It almost makes me wonder what he would have done if Lee had done more than just put his arm around Jane. And just how much advertising is Lucky Strike doing with SCDP???? They were 71% last week and a two million dollar account just bumps them down to 69%?!!? I thought Freddy was bringing in a major account, but it looks like mere pocket change compared to Luckies.

Creepy Glenn makes me even more uncomfortable than Lee.

Glenn is smooth, a young Don in the making.

:rofl:

Sally Draper: "Doing what?"

[Rockroi]

I equate this episode to watching a horror movie OR actually BEING IN a horror movie: for many involved, their worst fears came true.

1. The horror of having sex with Don Draper. I watched Don interact with three different women this episode, and, like some bad horror movie, I wondered who his latest victim would be. Would it be the zany, next-door-neighbor nurse who actually takes Don to bed? Or would it be the cool, intelligent numbers cruncher who was eying Don the whole episode…

… No.. Allison… his secretary? No, Allison… Don’t go to his apartment! NO DON’T GO INTO HIS APARTMENT ALONE! IT’S A TRAP!!!!! He’s in there! Nooo!!!!!! Why are people in horror movies so dumb?

And then the next scene where Allison is all bubbly and happy thinking that her and Don had “something” … and he gives her $100.00. He might as well have left it on the nightstand. (though to be fair to Don, he HAD said he was getting her a bonus no matter what). The actress who played Allison did a phenomenal job reminding us that not every woman in Madmen acts like Joan and Peggy.

2. The Horror that was Lee Jr. Roger and Lane (Lane is building momentum as a character; Roger is just Roger) faced with the horror of having Lee Jr come to the office Party… and then having to … pretend to have an office party! EGAD! Worse still, once Lee Jr. is at the party, he ACTS like a spoiled child because he is TREATED like a spoiled child! And then Roger in a Santa outfit…. Oh the humanity! Talk about taking one for the team…

3. The horror of Medicare. Easily the most political moment since the civil rights episodes, Bert Cooper and his new guru speaking about the end of Capitalism due to Medicare and civil rights legislation (you ever want to have a good laugh: Google “Bob Dole” and Medicare” and see what pops up: what he praised in 1996 was what he claimed would ruin the country in 1966). The end of private property? The decline of America due to Civil Rights?

Thankfully, its 2010 and our political system has evolved past those nay-sayers of doom and gloom regarding health care reformand those who do not understand civil rights. Thank God we live in 2010!

4. The horror that was Peggy and Freddie. As Peggy said, she was afraid that the next mean thing she said would drive Freddie back to the bottle- and that’s what we were all thinking. And his response? That’s HER problem, not his (great point, btw), and he apologized for thinking she wanted to get married. And then they both apologize and work things out...

… and just like a good horror movie, she ends up lying in a pool of her own bodily fluids anyway, a look of pure HORROR in her eyes! Yup, honey, you just screwed up! RUN! RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!!!!!

5. And then, like every horror movie, it goes too far. There is little Sally and her family on Christmas … do-de-doo, nothing going on and the… AHHHH!!!!!! ITS CREEPY GLENN!!!! OH GOD!!!!! Look at him! He’s just so creepy. He’s he’s GOT A KNIFE!!!! Oh and eggs and jelly and whip cream and … he’s going into Sally’s room! Oh God it’s awful! I-I can’t watch! He’s just too creepy! You knew something horrible was going to happen – the phone calls, the fake names, the breaking and entering, the whip cream! Oh my God! Run children Run! Don’t go upstairs!

And for the record, I’ve been calling him “creepy Glenn” since the first episode he was in. Creepy, creepy Glenn.

Overall, good episode, not great or at least not yet.

[Blaine]

For all of the badness in this episode - drunk, sloppy creepy boss Don; young, creepy stalkerish Glenn; Creepy, cruel, Lee from Lucky Strike...

At least we got to see Joan in that red dress with the bow in the back.

But damn. That was a shitty Christmas.

[Iskaral Pust]

This episode was extra strange for me because I started watching mid-way through and then watched the part I intially missed in the encore showing right afterward. So it definitely felt like a choppy progression to me, and did not really pick up from where the last episode left off, but it provided some great thematic developments.

Creepy Glenn returned to provide a foil for Sally. I hope that means we can watch the Betty/Henry experiment unfold from Sally's POV rather than Betty's (Sally's letter to Santa hints at this too). But I hope we don't see Glenn go any more OTT for cheap drama.

Peggy had that great clash with Freddy and also the scene where she rebuffed her boyfriend's demands: "You're so old-fashioned.", "I'm really not.". Underneath her reply was a confident sense of self, a complete misunderstanding by her boyfriend of who she is, and an obvious shout-out to the audience to remind us that she comes closest to being the hero of the show And then she relents because she doesn't want to be alone on New Years, and practically validates what Freddy said. I have to think though that she is strong enough and knows herself well enough to rise above this relationship.

Don was just tragic. After ending last week looking assertive and ready to take on the challenge, this week he reverts to the pitiful mess: holiday depression and growing alcoholism, and the fumbling groping of his neighbor and then his secretary. I thought Allison's role was excellently done: Leaving right afterward confounded his need to have someone, anyone stay with him; the hopeful, intimate eye contact the next morning spoke volumes; her reaction as he realizes he is pretending nothing happened was very well acted; and the bonus, in cash, as a perfect (if heavy) symbology.

The only thing that redeemed Don even a little is that he seemed awkward and ashamed of how he was treating her, but committed to doing so nonetheless.

I liked how the psyche dr. directly introduce the conflict between what we want and what we think is expected of us. I look forward to them drawing this out further.

Joan took center stage again. I missed her as her role diminished last season. The trailer/preview for next week made it look like she will have a large role.

Roger had to eat a lot of shit from Lee Jr. I was wondering if he would snap when Lee grabbed Jane. It really picked up strongly on the foreshadowing we had last week (Lane's comment about 71% of their business). I also wondered about the internal consistency of the numbers they quote: Lane says that the $2m account with Pond's that Freddy is bringing will reduce Lucky Strike from 71% to 69%. Would a small ad agency in 1964 really have $100m in revenue? I understand that these business are often like conduits where most of their revenue is immediately paid back out to buy advertising space as opposed to just paying the employees for their work.

Didn't Lee ask at some point "Where's Sal?" or did I pick that up wrong? If he did, that had to be the absolute nadir of his spoiled, shitty behavior.

Bert Cooper's aside about Medicare was a nice touch. It mirrors some of today's hyperbole very nicely and yet, for all that progressives can point and laugh about his doom and gloom, we still have not resolved the structural deficits that Medicare/Medicaid are causing and this generation will, sooner or later, need to find some resolution to the situation caused back then.

[Mike]

A couple of things:

Who is the actor playing Peggy's boyfriend? It's not up on imbd yet, but I swear it's Stark Sands (the LT from Generation Kill). edited to add: nevermind. I just saw that it's Blake Bashoff.

I can't remember offhand, but is this season the first time that Don's called Peggy "sweetheart" and "honey." I never noticed it before, but maybe because there is a real fatherly concern behind it now.

Btw, I love this thread. I've been lurking on here since last season and I'm absolutely blown away by the essays (yes, essays) that are on here after every episode. There is always some little detail or insight that I completely missed, and I always come away with a better appreciation of the show.

[Blaine]

Roger had to eat a lot of shit from Lee Jr. I was wondering if he would snap when Lee grabbed Jane. It really picked up strongly on the foreshadowing we had last week (Lane's comment about 71% of their business). I also wondered about the internal consistency of the numbers they quote: Lane says that the $2m account with Pond's that Freddy is bringing will reduce Lucky Strike from 71% to 69%. Would a small ad agency in 1964 really have $100m in revenue? I understand that these business are often like conduits where most of their revenue is immediately paid back out to buy advertising space as opposed to just paying the employees for their work.

Yeah. I'd say that's fair numbers, even for 1964. Media budgets are ridiculously huge, especially if you're doing national TV and national print campaigns. Also, even though SCDP is a small agency... it's still got at least 30 heads by my guesstimates. Also, it's a Madison Ave. small agency.

But you're correct in that the ad biz is basically a conduit to outside vendors. Media budgets, production, printers, paper distributors, directors, sets, crews, freelancers - there are a ton of people who don't work in the agency itself that make the majority of that money. The agency basically operates them for the client, assuring creative quality and better discounts than if they tried to do it themselves.

So the numbers are always disproportionately large. Even before you throw in the ridiculously expensive office decor, lunches, dinners and bar tabs these guys were throwing around.

[Rockroi]

Peggy had that great clash with Freddy and also the scene where she rebuffed her boyfriend's demands: "You're so old-fashioned.", "I'm really not."

Interesting that this was the very discussion with Freddie and Peggy latter in the episode. And the underpinning that what was “old fashioned” back then is now unthinkably ancient. But Isn’t Peggy a little old fashioned? Or is having the picture of a dead President on your wall on the cutting edge?

Don was just tragic. After ending last week looking assertive and ready to take on the challenge, this week he reverts to the pitiful mess: holiday depression and growing alcoholism…

You will notice that while Don’s alcoholism has always been a touchstone in the show (Sally’s Birthday Party where he just leaves), its now officially something people think about when they talk about Don when he is not there. Somebody says that he is just pathetic due to his drinking and Allison has a full-blown plan of action on what to do when Don is drunk.

The only thing that redeemed Don even a little is that he seemed awkward and ashamed of how he was treating her, but committed to doing so nonetheless.

In Don’s defense, he acted poorly, he knows it, and he is killing it right on the spot, after the first opportunity: he took advantage of her kindness (and lets just say she was more-than-willing to go along with it), he regrets it and he does not want it to interfere with their work. Their work goes on. He gives her a well-deserved bonus and lets her know- without any doubt -that there is no personal future between the two of them. The fact is, Don made a mistake, he regrets it, and now he is making sure he does not exacerbate the mistake by either 1) leading her on (cue Freddie's advice) or 2) by ignoring her and leaving her conflicted. AND he feels awful. I got to give the man credit there.

[Iskaral Pust]

Interesting that this was the very discussion with Freddie and Peggy latter in the episode. And the underpinning that what was “old fashioned” back then is now unthinkably ancient. But Isn’t Peggy a little old fashioned? Or is having the picture of a dead President on your wall on the cutting edge?

I think Peggy decides to sleep with her BF because she knows he isn't "the one", a very new-fashioned way of taking Freddy's old-fashioned advice (don't put out if you want the rock).

[Blaine]

Interesting that this was the very discussion with Freddie and Peggy latter in the episode. And the underpinning that what was “old fashioned” back then is now unthinkably ancient. But Isn’t Peggy a little old fashioned? Or is having the picture of a dead President on your wall on the cutting edge?

Also, letting your steady believe you are a virgin is hardly a bold, empowered "now" girl of the 60's either. Peggy is, as usual, trapped between her own old-fasioned tendencies and her more modern ambitions.

In Don’s defense, he acted poorly, he knows it, and he is killing it right on the spot, after the first opportunity: he took advantage of her kindness (and lets just say she was more-than-willing to go along with it), he regrets it and he does not want it to interfere with their work. Their work goes on. He gives her a well-deserved bonus and lets her know- without any doubt -that there is no personal future between the two of them. The fact is, Don made a mistake, he regrets it, and now he is making sure he does not exacerbate the mistake by either 1) leading her on (cue Freddie's advice) or 2) by ignoring her and leaving her conflicted. AND he feels awful. I got to give the man credit there.

Don is basically doing his "you won't believe how much this never happened" routine. Which is something we've seen him do quite a bit. Is it the best way to go about making up for the fact that he made a huge mistake? I don't really think so. This Don is a mess. The old Don was smart enough to stay out of the secretarial pool (unlike Roger) for this exact reason.

Also, while the bonus was pre-planned and obviously pre-prepared - the stigma of handing a woman you just slept with some cash while coldly letting her know it was a one-time-thing isn't exactly nice. In fact, it quite obviously makes her feel like a whore.

Don't get me wrong, I think Don feels bad. And I think Don realizes it was a mistake. However, I don't think he realizes how huge a mistake it was and how bad he should feel about it. He's barely operating here, between the booze and the depression.

All that said, the conga line sure looked fun.

[Rockroi]

Don is basically doing his "you won't believe how much this never happened" routine. Which is something we've seen him do quite a bit. Is it the best way to go about making up for the fact that he made a huge mistake? I don't really think so.

Possibly; I just do not think there is any "good" ways of doing this: he cannot take her out to lunch or say "Hey, lets talk about this" without leading her on (and its obvious that she wants to be let on). Is it the "best" way? Not sure, but I do not think there is a good way, and the way he did it was good under the circumstances. Yes, she feels hurt and wounded, but there is no way she is not going to feel that way. Its like the fans of Cleveland post LeBron: Le Bron handled it terribly, but there is no way Cleveland fans were just going to be "cool" with the way Lebron made "the Decision." Same with Allison. She will Always feel jilted. Here, I think Don took that into account and let her know that they had no future.

Also, while the bonus was pre-planned and obviously pre-prepared - the stigma of handing a woman you just slept with some cash while coldly letting her know it was a one-time-thing isn't exactly nice. In fact, it quite obviously makes her feel like a whore.

Completely agreed. In hind-sight he maybe should have mailed it to her, but the problem was that he had already said she was getting a bonus: X-Mas was fast approaching. Had he not given her the bonus, I think its worse. Here there is no good answer, so Don just bites the bullet: he told her what to expect, he gave her what she expected (in this limited regrad). It blows that she feels like a whore and that Don is the one making her feel that way. But can you blame Don for ... for making good on his promise?

Don't get me wrong, I think Don feels bad. And I think Don realizes it was a mistake. However, I don't think he realizes how huge a mistake it was and how bad he should feel about it. He's barely operating here, between the booze and the depression.

I think he feels epically shitty. I think there is no getting around that. I think he actually hates himself for doing it. The old Don would not have even called her into the office; fuck, the old Don may have had Roger can her. I think Don was doing something New Don is not used to: admitting he was wrong, not running away from his problems and trying to move on.

Oh, and if in 3 episodes he says he does not see what the big deal was, than yeah, he should feel worse. But right now, he feels pretty bad.

[Lord Mord]

I did think this episode was a bit heavy-handed. I hope they're able to ease off the throttle a little come the rest of the season.

Somebody made a point earlier about the previous episode and gifts being handed out -- the explanation is not that it's "gifts for Thanksgiving," but rather that Henry's daughter and husband knew they weren't going to see the Draper children at Christmas time, so it was best to bring the gifts and hand them over now.

The Lee Garner, Jr party-what-is-not-a-party scenes were painful, but I thought the payoff with the office leftovers and the "Fuhrer's birthday" lines covered it nicely.

I think that sleeping with Allison was definitely not well-thought-out -- on either of their parts -- but the only real mistake I can see is how Don behaved the next morning. I mean, okay, I was afraid he was going to fire her and at least that didn't happen, and I can appreciate the "cruel to be kind" argument, and he wasn't even especially cruel. But this was an opportunity to move beyond his usual sleazy tactics, away from his self-pity, and to acknowledge that sex between them was what they wanted, it was fun, and while it may never happen again, it was not a mistake.

Instead, he stranded them both in mires of self-doubt and loneliness. Creep.

[Rhom]

Speaking of the perky nurse who calls Don an alcoholic... where have I seen that actress before?

[Green Apple Fossoway]

Speaking of the perky nurse who calls Don an alcoholic... where have I seen that actress before?

She was on the last season of Grey's Anatomy, and I also saw her in the movie Brick.

[Brude]

Last year they said that they did $24 million in billing from Lucky Strike. Assuming it's still about the same (it might have gone up), still, if that's 69% of their billing (with Ponds included), then they are billing close to $38 million. What percentage do they take as their cut from the billing they do? Is it 15%? Is that how this industry works? (Someone over at IMDb said that's what it is, I'm not sure where they got the number.) If that's the right number, though, then SCDP is bringing in about $5.25 million/year at present.

For this episode, the indelible image for me has to be Joan leading the conga line. Who does conga lines anymore? I love it. (I actually, I remember we did them at my high school prom, but by 1990 it was sort of an ironic thing.)

Glenn is indeed creepy, but he's also very advanced for his age. His plan to get Sally's attention was bizarre, brilliant, showed amazing insight into human psychology for young kid and was, yes, very, very creepy.

I'm pretty certain I saw Laura Mennell, who played Janey Slater in Watchmen, as one of the secretaries in the office, but she only had a few minor lines. She was very good in Watchmen, I thought. A local B.C. actress who got that break because they shot the movie in Vancouver. If that was her (I don't see her credited), then I wonder if her character is due to expand in later episodes. No, she's not a name or anything, but her work before suggests she should be getting bigger roles than a few minor background player lines.

[Brude]

Oh, does anyone think that Lee Jr.'s new Polaroid camera might get him into some big trouble by season's end?

[aeu]

Speaking of the perky nurse who calls Don an alcoholic... where have I seen that actress before?

She was in Heroes for a short while. I think she had super powers of persuasion, or something like that.

[Rhom]

Watching it again last night with my wife, I realized something about Glenn. Sally told him she just wants to move. By breaking in and trashing the joint, he's trying to make Henry and Betty want to move.

Thanks for the heads up on the nurse. I had seen her on Greys and Heroes, but couldn't place her.

[Guest Raidne]

Speaking of the perky nurse who calls Don an alcoholic... where have I seen that actress before?

Wasn't she also on Heroes?

[Blaine]

Watching it again last night with my wife, I realized something about Glenn. Sally told him she just wants to move. By breaking in and trashing the joint, he's trying to make Henry and Betty want to move.

That was my takeaway the first time I watched it. It's still uber creepy, but the little weirdo was at least trying to do something for Sally, not against her or to scare her. That's why he left her room untouched and left the lanyard so that she'd know it was him.

I caught a minute of the replay last night and I was wondering why Freddy specifically asked not to work with Pete Campbell. Is it just because Pete was there when he pissed himself? Just curious if I was forgetting some other problem between them.