Cricket X

[Jeor]

Woohoo, we've got the Cricket thread up to its 10th incarnation (although I seem to recall there were a number of specialised "Ashes" threads as well back in 2005, so we've probably talked about cricket even more!). So far we have:

England vs Pakistan

As I said earlier I think Kaneria was dropped too soon. Ajmal is a decent spinner but Kaneria has a much higher ceiling, Ajmal is not nearly as good as Kaneria in full flight. He bowled atrociously but loyalty in this case doesn't cost much, they don't have anything really to lose by keeping him one more match.

India vs Sri Lanka

Perhaps another run feast in the making but hopefully we'll get a result here. Sangakarra's average is over 57 now...as a specialist batsman his average must be astronomical!

[Paxter]

India vs Sri Lanka

Perhaps another run feast in the making but hopefully we'll get a result here. Sangakarra's average is over 57 now...as a specialist batsman his average must be astronomical!

Yeah, his average of 77 when playing as a specialist batsmen is significantly greater than other modern batsmen (if not quite Badmanesque). Incidentally, with today's innings he became the only current player and the first Asian player to break into the all-time top 10 for test career batting average, overtaking Jack Hobbs. Another couple of centuries and Sobers will be looking over his shoulder as well ;).

[williamjm]

England vs Pakistan

As I said earlier I think Kaneria was dropped too soon. Ajmal is a decent spinner but Kaneria has a much higher ceiling, Ajmal is not nearly as good as Kaneria in full flight. He bowled atrociously but loyalty in this case doesn't cost much, they don't have anything really to lose by keeping him one more match.

I've noticed selectors all over the world are always fond of dropping bowlers when their batting line-up misfires.

[Paxter]

I don't think Kaneria can have any complaints TBH. Granted, he has 260 test wickets compared to Ajmal's 18 and, at 29 years of age, probably has some of his best years still ahead of him (leg-spinners tend to mature quite late). But his wicket-taking record in 2010 is poor and he's regularly going for around 4 runs per over - there's no real getting around those stats. Other spinners (Krejza, Botha and Panesar come to mind) have all been dropped for putting in better performances than Kaneria is currently serving up.

(What are the odds that Ajmal will get match figures of 0-200 now that I have said this? :P )

[Jeor]

I don't think Kaneria can have any complaints TBH. Granted, he has 260 test wickets compared to Ajmal's 18 and, at 29 years of age, probably has some of his best years still ahead of him (leg-spinners tend to mature quite late). But his wicket-taking record in 2010 is poor and he's regularly going for around 4 runs per over - there's no real getting around those stats. Other spinners (Krejza, Botha and Panesar come to mind) have all been dropped for putting in better performances than Kaneria is currently serving up.

(What are the odds that Ajmal will get match figures of 0-200 now that I have said this? :P )

I can see both sides of the argument from here...I think Kaneria has a much bigger upside than Ajmal and so he was worth the risk for one more match. Kaneria is a wicket-taker who can bowl a mesmerising spell while Ajmal is more of a bowler who can tie up one end. That being said, I guess that might have been part of the explanation - the pace attack of Asif, Amir and Gul has been ripping through opposing lineups, so rather than another attacking wicket-taker they are probably looking for steadiness and economy out of their spinner. I admit Kaneria is rather ill-equipped to provide those in his current form.

Will's comment is also rather insightful. ;) It seems easier to drop bowlers, especially for Pakistan because they have more options whereas their batting pipeline is rather dry. Swapping an inexperienced first-class nobody (my apologies to the Pakistani batsmen) for yet another inexperienced first-classer is probably not going to help much.

[Paxter]

I can see both sides of the argument from here...I think Kaneria has a much bigger upside than Ajmal and so he was worth the risk for one more match.

Yeah, I can see that argument, it's just that I think it's exactly this line of thinking which gets Pakistan into trouble - they tend to persist with volatile players capable of the occasional good performance rather than cutting their losses and trying to incentivise and develop more consistent performers. The "one more match" philosophy never really stops. It's the same story with Ashraful and Bangladesh - he keeps getting picked on the basis of his relatively high upside potential, but his selection just ends up compounding the inconsistencies and volatility that the rest of the batting line-up already suffers from.

That's pretty much why I think the Aussie selectors made the right decision in chopping Phil Hughes - he is talented enough that he can win you test series virtually single-handedly (as we saw in SA before the last Ashes), but he's also very inconsistent. So the selectors cut him almost straight away and tried to develop a more consistent opener - and by and large this selection has paid-off as Watson has been easily one of the best Australian batsmen in recent times. If the PCB were running Australian cricket, Hughes would probably still be on the team.

[Ski the Swift]

X is for extreme...

:laugh:

That sub title is gold mate. In other news, I haven't watched a cricket game since summer. I was unawares of winter time cricket.

-ducks oncoming fruit smiting-

[Paxter]

:shocked:

After two weeks of plundering this rather insipid Indian attack, somehow Sri Lanka has contrived to lose 7 wickets for 55 runs on the second-last day of the series. Unbelievable stuff.

[Paxter]

*facepalm*

Pakistan in tatters again. This could be a long series.

The Sri Lanka v India series has come alive though - Samaraweera and Mendis forged an epic 9th wicket partnership to give their team hope. India now require another 234 runs and Sehwag has already fallen. Anyone's game.

[Jeor]

Glad you liked my subtitle Ski! ;)

The Mendis partnership was particularly impressive given that Mendis had not even scored more than a 30-something in a first-class game, let alone an international Test match. Dravid gone as well, 2/32 and Sri Lanka are in with a big chance, India will be kicking themselves. They're going to have to rely heavily on Tendulkar and probably Dhoni later on if they want to get home.

Poor Pakistan, they could not get Yousuf into the team and the same has happened. 3/21 in 17 overs - they've barely scored any runs and England's bowlers are completely on top. Mind you, one man cannot fix a batting order himself so Yousuf is unlikely to be the silver bullet, but still - they just need someone to play an innings. They've gone completely into defensive mode, Azhar Ali is on 0 off 25 balls. There has to be a happy medium somewhere, surely. And I just know Umar Akmal is going to get out to a silly shot sooner or later...

[Paxter]

This is just pathetic. Pakistan probably wish that Bangladesh didn't secede - then they could have at least called Tamim in to the team to smash the English around a bit :P.

[Jeor]

This is just pathetic. Pakistan probably wish that Bangladesh didn't secede - then they could have at least called Tamim in to the team to smash the English around a bit :P.

Third time in a row Pakistan have lost 6 wickets before getting to a team score of 50. Their batting lineup was weak before but not this weak that they're automatic walking wickets! At this rate I wouldn't be surprised if England had a lead by the end of the day, ridiculous as that sounds.

I do feel sorry for the new 'keeper though. Got a good ball first up and gone for a golden duck. Hopefully he gets a good innings second time around.

[williamjm]

Third time in a row Pakistan have lost 6 wickets before getting to a team score of 50. Their batting lineup was weak before but not this weak that they're automatic walking wickets! At this rate I wouldn't be surprised if England had a lead by the end of the day, ridiculous as that sounds.

Your prediction turned out to be accurate, Pakistan compounding their terrible batting with some poor fielding, dropping even more catches. I'm starting to wonder if this Pakistan team has the weakest batting line-up I've seen tour England, they're definitely a contender.

[Slick Mongoose]

At least Bangladesh are better than someone now.

[ljkeane]

It's a bit weird really, most international sides can scrape together a few half decent batsmen and put together a moderately competitive batting lineup. It's finding top class bowlers capable of bowling a test team out that's the problem. Pakistan seem to have done the difficult part but have just completely failed to develop their batsmen in a remotely reasonable fashion.

[Jeor]

It's a bit weird really, most international sides can scrape together a few half decent batsmen and put together a moderately competitive batting lineup. It's finding top class bowlers capable of bowling a test team out that's the problem. Pakistan seem to have done the difficult part but have just completely failed to develop their batsmen in a remotely reasonable fashion.

I totally agree - even emerging sides can usually find some decent batsmen. Pakistan have done it the other way around, and what I find very strange about it is that generally if your national side is churning out top quality bowlers, surely that means as a result you should be getting some pretty good batsmen who have faced some heat in first-class cricket.

I just think the first-class scene in Pakistan has never been particularly important to the national team. Because Pakistan by nature seems to always be a young team, lots of people have been picked from club cricket, bypassing first-class altogether (or at most having one season). I think Wasim Akram didn't even play a first-class game before his Test debut, and I'm sure there are plenty of others like him. As a result I think the raw talent of bowling gets a much better look in Pakistan, whereas the discipline and technique of batsmen is not allowed to develop. Bowlers need maturity too, but it's the batsmen who really need the time to solidify their technique and mature in first-class cricket.

It's really the difference between batsmen and bowlers. I reckon that with enough technical coaching, willpower and experience, almost anyone can become a good batsman. But all the coaching/willpower/experience in the world may still not succeed in producing a good bowler, who just needs to have pace, swing, or bounce to start with. Thus most sides that have strong first-class systems can come up with decent batsmen but not the bowlers, unless they pick them early - I think bowlers should always be picked young.

[Paxter]

I just think the first-class scene in Pakistan has never been particularly important to the national team. Because Pakistan by nature seems to always be a young team, lots of people have been picked from club cricket, bypassing first-class altogether (or at most having one season). I think Wasim Akram didn't even play a first-class game before his Test debut, and I'm sure there are plenty of others like him. As a result I think the raw talent of bowling gets a much better look in Pakistan, whereas the discipline and technique of batsmen is not allowed to develop. Bowlers need maturity too, but it's the batsmen who really need the time to solidify their technique and mature in first-class cricket.

The other reason for the low contribution of Pakistani first-class cricket is the quality (or lack thereof) of the pitches. When nearly every pitch in the country favours the batsmen, it's easier to get away with poor technique and still make mountains of runs. India has the same problem in a way, but gets away with it because of a much higher population, better coaching and better quality spin-bowling (which demands good technique).

Off-topic: Australia must be sitting back at home watching this series and trying to work out exactly how Pakistan managed an average score of around 220 against them :P.

[Paxter]

Dilshan just dropped a straightforward chance at short-leg to give Tendulkar a life. That could be the turning-point in this game, but it's still extremely tense.

[Jeor]

Some more half chances gone by Pakistan and they still don't have this review system figured out. You really have to feel for Asif and Amir, doing a thankless, if not impossible job given their batting lineup.

India get home comfortably in the end thanks to Laxman. I thought it would be Tendulkar or Dhoni, but in the end it was good old Laxman who brought them home. I still remember some series against Australia (the Test series in India that we lost in particular) where Laxman helped guide India to some nervy small targets. In a lineup without Tendulkar or Dravid, he probably would have been the premier stylish batsman of his generation (they usually add Ganguly into that group as a quartet, but I think he was a merely good batsman rather than a great one). With an average of 47, a top-class record against the best team of his generation (he always cut us to pieces) and an elegant technique to boot, only Tendulkar and Dravid could have kept him out of the limelight throughout his career.

[Paxter]

For those who didn't see it, I think this passage of play pretty much sums up Pakistan's plight in this test match:

Mohammad Amir to Pietersen, no run, another big appeal! This time for lbw as this comes back from off stump and they again decide not to review. Took an inside edge, otherwise that was out...actually it's dropped. Oh dear, gully ran in and made a half-hearted effort to take it. That really was the easiest catch you'll see, but he didn't seem bothered

It looked like Amin was thinking of appealing instead of catching the ball! That's shocking

As for SL v India, yeah, that was an impressive innings from VVS. Even if Sachin had been dismissed earlier, Laxman was playing well enough that he still would have seen India home. Sri Lanka will be kicking themselves though - they really should have found a way to draw that test match after both sides made 400+ in the first innings.

I agree about Sourav as well Jeor - he is renowned for his off-side play and excellent ODI performances, but I think that his good captaincy (by Indian standards anyway) and general competitive nature were far more important to India than his batting. The 2001 series that you mention is a good example of that - he was pathetic with the bat in that series (averaged below 20), but he was the first captain that Steve Waugh had faced for a long time who actually believed his side could defeat Australia.