Is Littlefinger Robert Arryn's father?

[Lady Nymeria's Ghost]

One troubling detail for me is the whole "the seed is strong" issue. Lysa mistakes Jon Arryn's dying words explaining Cersei and Jamie's incest as an endorsement of Robert Arryn as a strong heir.

It's very likely that she was lying here. Don't forget, this is the woman who was all too happy to blame her husband's death on the Lannisters.

[corbon]

having a chemical abortion will not render you infertile...unsafe abortions with coat hangers will

Surely that depends on the chemicals?

And these particular chemicals do whatever GRRM wants them to do, not what modern chemical abortives do.

It's obvious that Jon Arryn was slightly infertile: all those wives and only one child. Likely it was Lysa amazing Tully fertility that produced Robert inspite of Jon Arryns rather poor quality semen. Or Jon could just be infertile and the child is Petyr's

It is possible Jon Arryn's seed was weak.

It is possible, though IMO very unlikely (others have covered several of the reasons why), that Littlefinger is Robert Arryn's father.

But note that a psychologically messed up Lysa, with probably emotional damage and possible physical damage from her forced abortion was at least as much of the problem between the two of them. Getting pregnant wasn't the problem. It was carrying a healthy child to term when she didn't really want a child of Jon's. With her precarious psychological and emotional state, that would be all that is needed for a series of failed pregnancies and then a sickly birth.

The mental health of a pregnant woman can be a factor in a successful birth, or so I am given to believe. Combine that with weak seed in the first place...

And of course when she did carry a child to term successfully she overcompensated for not really wanting it in the first place.

[Ser Tom]

She wasn't lying just confused, Jon Arryn was talking about the Barratheon seed. It's not long after he's found out about the twincest and checked out robert's army of bastards. He's trying to tell people about it because he knows why he's dying. Though Lysa's started the poisoning Pycele sent the young maester away and finished the job so Lysa saying it was the Lannisters is partly true. I dont think sweetrobin's Littlefingers, Lysa would have told him at some point and as much of a bastard as he is I don't Littlefinger would be poisoning his own kid.

[Taelorn]

Holy hell, I can't believe I missed that when I read it. It really says have another child?!

To play devil's advocate, it could simply mean she just wants another child, this one with littlefinger. A step brother/sister for Robert.

[Francisco Araujo da Costa]

It could also be that Sweetobin is LF's AND that Littlefinger knows it AND that he doesn't care that he is slowly murdering his own son with the anticonvulsant.

[Saerca Targaryen-Stark]

I sincerely hope that Robert is not Littlefinger's son, but GRRM has left the possibility open.

There is certainly a history here of fathers not caring for their offspring.. Jaime/Joffrey, Baelon/Theon, and Tywin/Tyrion all come to mind.. so it wouldn't surprise me that Littlefinger would sacrifice his own son without giving it a second thought, if it furthers his plans and ambitions.

But if it's true, I don't think he's aware of it.. He could make the discovery after Sweetrobin is dead, though..

My problem with the whole thing is I don't believe Littlefinger would have carried on a physical affair in King's Landing with the Hand's wife, especially knowing that she is crazy and there are "eyes and ears" all over the Red Keep. Surely he wouldn't give Varys that kind of ammunition against him.. I think he's smarter than to put himself in such a position.

[Ser Tom]

Well it is ASoIaF anything's possible. Saerca's right on kingslanding though there's not a mouse farts there without Varys hearing about it. I was thinking about the Lannisters earlier and the fact that Tywin never had some swine deal with Tyrion when he was a kid is what makes me think Littlefinger wouldn't set out to kill his own offspring. Jamie might not have been to fussed about looking after Joffrey but there's no way he would've done anything to deliberately harm him, he seems genuinely upset when Tyrion says he killed him. The iron born are another matter all together, their morals are about ten notches below Craster on that front.

[Lord Damian]

Sweetrobin was conceived in Kings Landing as Jon was hand for 15 years. It is possible that Littlefinger was the father because I do not think that Lysa and Littlefinger never touched one another all that time.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

It could very well be true, but I doubt it. And even if it is, Baelish clearly doesn't know, in which case, no one else does, in which case, it doesn't really matter in the end.

[di0p]

There is also the stature and physical appearance. Littlefinger is small and weak, which describes Sweet robin exactly.

[voodooqueen126]

voodooqueen126, on 30 September 2011 - 12:09 PM, said:

having a chemical abortion will not render you infertile...unsafe abortions with coat hangers will

Corbon said:

Surely that depends on the chemicals?

And these particular chemicals do whatever GRRM wants them to do, not what modern chemical abortives do.

End corbon (Quotes not working:(

Well Asha, Wildlings and Arianne use moon tea (which probably acts as an abortificant since it contains tansy) and are not super scared of developing an incontinent cervix.

[Amanda Lannister]

Although I am not 100% sold on the idea, it is definitely a possibility. Although without a LF POV, we can't be sure what he knows. He very well could know that SR is his son, and not give a crap. Lysa was a pawn, for whom he had no feelings. He thought that Lysa was Cat the first time they slept together. IMO they probably didn't resume the "affair" until much later in KL when LF realized how he could use Lysa. Now, SR has become the pawn in Lysa's absence, and is easily disposed of. There is a bigger picture in LF's plan.

On the issue of the quote "lets make another baby"

IMO, If SR was LF's, she would have said "Lets HAVE another baby". To me, "Lets MAKE another baby" Implies that that was all they did, MAKE a baby and not HAVE one. GRRM's words are deliberate...

[Lion of Judah]

I have heard this before and I definitely think it's possible. I think there is a chance that LF knows that he is the boys father too.

[Profion]

I quite like it... I will repost something here, that I created a topic

[Profion]

I know this topic was debated on a few topics, a good number of people think that this theory might be true, due to Jon Arryn´s number of wifes and none heir. That would make highly unlikely that Robyn would be his son... Would also explain why Lisa is so attached to the boy, if he was offspring to the man she loves.

But, what made me re-start this thread was a movie I see recently, called The Changeling. It´s a 80´s ghost movie with an interesting plot, a ghost of a boy killed in a house haunts the new owner, and the interesting part was how he was killed. You see, the boy´s father married an extremely rich woman and father her only son, she dies and then the boy inherit everything, and the father nothing. He controls the money until the boy is 21, but if the boy dies before this age, the money goes to charity and he loses everything. The problem is: the boy is extremely sick, and might not even reach teenage, so the man kills his paraplegic 5 year old son and replace him for an orphan, goes to Europe with the new kid for 15 years and come back with a brand new kid, who loves him and didn´t die before 21, so he can have the money.

This plot kinda remind me of LF, I think LF impregnated Lisa and made her pretend that it was Jon Arryn, his original plan was hold the Vale and Riverrun as lord protector, tutor of his own son. His blood would be on one of the most proeminent seats of Westeros. But he didn´t count that the boy would be weak and sick. Seeing how this would ruin his plans (since he could die before creating offspring), he make new ones, Take Catelyn´s daughter who look so much like her mother, marry her to Harry the Heir, and maybe even get her to be pregnant, kills Harry after the baby born, his blood now has rights to the north and the vale. And did I mentioned Kill his own son for power? That would fit LF´s personality, and I truly believe in this possibility.

[Waylin Stark]

Well, anything is possible, but I doubt it. After aborting her child with LF, how many times did she screw LF? I used to think LF did it only once, when he was depressed about Cat and she served as a substitute for him.

Also the many miscarriages and Robin's sickly heath have always pointed to a weak old man like Jon Arryn being the father.

[Elba the Intoner]

I sincerely hope that Robert is not Littlefinger's son, but GRRM has left the possibility open.

There is certainly a history here of fathers not caring for their offspring.. Jaime/Joffrey, Baelon/Theon, and Tywin/Tyrion all come to mind.. so it wouldn't surprise me that Littlefinger would sacrifice his own son without giving it a second thought, if it furthers his plans and ambitions.

But if it's true, I don't think he's aware of it.. He could make the discovery after Sweetrobin is dead, though..

My problem with the whole thing is I don't believe Littlefinger would have carried on a physical affair in King's Landing with the Hand's wife, especially knowing that she is crazy and there are "eyes and ears" all over the Red Keep. Surely he wouldn't give Varys that kind of ammunition against him.. I think he's smarter than to put himself in such a position.

LF would have carried on an affair with Lysa or at least slept with her once or twice if there was something in it for him and we have seen that he did get her to poison Jon and blame the Lannisters for his death to kickstart the animosity between the Starks and Lannisters. He made that comment in one of the small council meetings in AGOT about if you have to go to bed with an ugly woman best to just close your eyes and get on with it (paraphrasing). That could very easily have been a reference to Lysa. Also, whose to say Varys doesn't know something but just hasn't said anything yet. Maybe he's waiting to see how the Vale will react to Aegon's arrival and then use the info to stir up trouble in the Vale so that Aegon will have an easier time conquering it. I know that's a total guess but we don't have enough info one way or the other to say what Varys may know or even if it's true at all. We may never find out, but there are hints that it could be true and I don't think the fact that Varys would know about it but hasn't said anything serves as absolute proof that it's not true.

ETA Varys never found out about Sansa meeting with Dontos in the Godswood because LF knew that was a good place to meet without any "little birds" overhearing so there is a history already of LF circumventing Varys and his spies.

[MotherMerciless]

They did have a child together:

"I've always loved you. I've proved it, haven't I?" ... "I gave you my maiden's gift. I would have given you a son too, but they murdered him with moon tea, with tansy and mint and wormwood, a spoon of honey and a drop of permyroyal."

[Ser Lepus]

*Snip*

I have thought of that too. I think Sweet Robin could be Littlefinger's son, but if so, it won't be revealed until he kills him, close to the end of TWOW, to shock us with the knowledge of how evil Petyr really is.

[The Dornishman's Wife]

"I've always loved you. I've proved it, haven't I?" ... "I gave you my maiden's gift. I would have given you a son too, but they murdered him with moon tea, with tansy and mint and wormwood, a spoon of honey and a drop of permyroyal."

BTW, I think this conversation is a definite indication that Lysa thinks Sweetrobin is Jon Arryn's. She recounts her proofs of love to Littlefinger, including how she almost gave him a son... but leaves out that she did give him a son? Hardly likely. And considering what else she said, she obviously applied no filter at all to her words there, so there's no reason to believe that she omitted this ultimate piece of pudding deliberately.

If Sweetrobin is LF's, then Lysa does not know it. And that seems unlikely.