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What's wrong with 20-somethings?


Jaime L

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I'm 25 and am financially independent, married, have kids, have the house with yard and dogs and all that. In some ways, I still feel like a kid and am immature in a lot of ways: ie. I still do all the same things I liked doing as a kid. But then, I feel like I'll be doing these things when I'm in my 30s or 40s, so if that makes me immature, so be it. (Maybe not skateboarding; I'm already getting shit for still skateboarding at my age, so will probably grow out of that by the time I'm 30).

But in other ways I feel like I'm a lot more mature than other people my age. I look at people on TV like Paris Hilton, the idiots on Jersey Shore, etc and can't believe they're older than me. They're complete nimrods.

In any case, I've got my own problems to deal with and am probably too self-absorbed to really care about other people's problems (outside of my family and circle of friends). I 've never judged anyone based on whether they're living at home, in a relationship, financially independent, etc, so am not going to start now.

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One word that sums up the problem with this sort of condescension?

pension

:rofl:

Still, I cannot agree that extended family life is a positive thing and its absence is abhorrently WASPy, as someone said earlier. Filial piety is a digusting thing.

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One word that sums up the problem with this sort of condescension?

:rofl:

Still, I cannot agree that extended family life is a positive thing and its absence is abhorrently WASPy, as someone said earlier.

The word was "uniquely", not "abhorrently", and I'm sure that you're old enough to understand the difference between the two.

Filial piety is a digusting thing.

Lol, I bet that you're the most awesome parent and your kids love you dearly.

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There was an article at Slate in response to the NYT article (http://www.slate.com/id/2264542/) that I read last week, made me start thinking about this. I was surprised to hear so many people say that they don't feel like adults. I'm not really sure what feeling that is even supposed to be, I guess. I would hazard to say that most people DO feel like adults, in that they take care of themselves, make their own decisions, and would be pretty pissed to be treated like they weren't adults, but perhaps they don't feel like their parents? Dunno.

Anyway, I'm 22 (something I constantly get shit for, being one of the youngest people I interact with on a daily basis), and I definitely feel like an adult. I have a college degree and a job (even if I hate it), I have an apartment and bills and a car. I have some sense of personal responsibility. (I also have a husband, but that's just a fluke and, IMO, not tied in to any "adultness"--I just happened to meet the right guy when I was 21, but I don't think that it would have put off my adulthood had we not met or had we not met until I was 31. Also, childfree.)

But while there may be some disparities between our growing up process and that of a generation or two previously, in general, I don't think there's any radical sort of shift going on. I believe it was in the Slate article that they referenced someone from the 19th century bemoaning their lack of direction in life at age 25 or something.

Also, I think perhaps it might be more of a class issue than generational? I grew up pretty low middle class, youngest of 5 kids, my dad a professor at a small college and my mom not working, and I started my first job when I was 14, not just for extra spending money but to actually buy myself clothes, shampoo, etc. So it wasn't very hard for me to adapt to not relying on my parents for everything. Not to mention that I went to the Naval Academy and am in the Navy which is about 99% different than most people's college/career progression, so perhaps all my anecdotal musing is meaningless! :)

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There's something uniquely WASPy about this whole sentiment that to continue to live with one's parents or to return to live with them after college is a sign of not-growing up. In many cultures, as long as you're financially independent and contribute to household chores and financial obligations, there's nothing wrong with that. I think that if anything, that just signifies an even stronger family bond and a positive sign of maturity.

I dunno, I think one could easily say uniquely 'Western' and not 'WASP' (in my own personal anecdotal case, I"m only 1 of those letters).

And even if it is only a Western situation, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. If people want to live with their parents or don't have any other option, and they're parents are cool with it, then more power to them, but personally I can't imagine going back to live with them. I want to live my own life, outside of their shadow, making my own small mark on this world, and I don't think I could do that living with them no matter how much I love them. When I first got my own place last year I made a determined effort to call in conversation my apt. 'home' and where I grew up 'my parent's place' in order to put further emphasis on the break.

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I think 20 somethings are finding marriage and careers later in life than prior generations. But think it's somewhat shakier ground to assume they're lazier or more self indulgent.

Respectfully disagree here, Jaime. While it might be somewhat shaky in terms of those who are already in the 20s over the course of this last decade, it is something that I think is going to be more pronounced and apparent with those who are just entering their 20s as we head toward the second decade of this century. Too many young teens I've seen have little to no goals or drives beyond the next technological gadjet or thingamagig that will allow them to tune out their parents and adult role models to text and sext thier firends and neighbors all while sitting across the table from them. All the while expecting that mommy and daddy will be picking up the tab for that new gadjet because they've come to expect to be given these things as part of the largesse they've enjoyed because their parents did as well as they did in the 90s and into this century.

Oh this isn't to say all newly 20 somethings are like that, but there are more than anyone is willing to think.

Agree to some extent. But this'll become more difficult as early 20 somethings and teens are increasingly getting crowded out of the job market by the Great Recession and Boomers who can/will no longer retire.

The issue is that a lot of these "for kids" jobs are now taken by adults desperate for a job, any job. (be they immigrants or people who have been let go by the recession) since young people (especialyl first-jobbers) have their own hassles for an employer, well...

I cannot agree here either. Not entirely. It's a point to be sure, but the introductory service jobs, the McDonald's, the Wendy's...those jobs are always going to be there. They should be breeding grounds for the teenager looking to get a start with some sort of simple skills and social interactions that these jobs bring. However, due to the affluence of the parents throughout the 90s and into the 2000s, far to many teams would prefer to simply be handed cash and gifts because they feel entitled to it.

In my most recent job, if we had any teens in our stores working, and it was rarer than I thought it would have been, it was usually because they'd been forced into some sort of "you need to get a job or we're not going to pay for college" situation with their parents. Invariably, these were my worst workers because they didn't care because they knew they'd get what they wanted anyway and would make themselves barely available. It was almost never a situation, as mentioned above, where it was about making a few dollars to go to the movies or pay for a tank of gas in the borrowed car from mom and dad.

It's interesting, because now that I'm in my 30s I've come around to the other side of this. I like spending time with the 'rents. I'm financially independent and don't need to prove that I'm an adult, therefore, I really don't have a problem with them coming across country and staying with me for a while (or vice versa if necessary) and helping me out with stuff (or vice versa). I recently had this conversation with other people around my age (both of them WASPy women) and they had the same view of things.

I can't imagine not having my parents in my life. It was like this all through my 20s and into my 30s. I freely admit that I lived with my folks after college until I was 25. Moving out was just not something I really pursued initially. Oh I looked for a job and sought to find Miss Right. It took my little sister failing to move back in when she left college to get my brother and I off our butts into our own place. Because I wanted to get the those five points covered it took me longer than I wanted it to. Guess that makes me odd.

And let's not take some of my remarks out of context. I know not everyone is the same and there are plenty of rational and self aware twenty somethings and teens on this Forum, but I think their more likely to be the exceptions rather than the rules...

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Guest Raidne

I think the distaste for children living with parents actually comes from the parents who were really looking forward to that vacation time/golden years without having to financially support their kids and deal with their kids making too much noise and keeping them up at 2am thing.

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the most awesome parent and your kids love you dearly.
My point was that the two need have nothing to do with each other. My parents, for instance, were perfectly satisfactory and I loved them not at all. Even if you do love your parents, though, the notion that a "strong family bond," i.e. voluntary service is a "positive sign" is ethically dubious, to say the least.
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I've just turned twenty and i think Jaime L and Blaine have it right - it is much more acceptable to take different routes in life (or maybe there are just more routes available) and people are just choosing what makes them happy. I know most of my peers will take any job that will support the wild thursday/friday/saturday/wednesday nights and will need nothing more from life for like the next 10 years.

Personally i just want to make enough money to indulge all my whims.

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The main thing that I think keeps me from considering myself an adult is my indecision about my career. I haven't settled on what I want to do, indeed I don't even have a general idea of what I might end up doing, and I'm not on a linear career path.

I don't think this should matter at all in terms of defining yourself as an adult. I think that very few people are fortunate enough to know that they are doing exactly what they want to be doing for a living. When I was a freshman or sophomore in college I went to a Christmas party with my parents where I was by far the youngest person there. So naturally, all these middle aged fogies were asking me about school. I hadn't picked a major yet, so I was pretty much forced to reply with, 'well, I don't really know what I want to do yet.' Pretty much everyone responded with something like, 'me neither kid.' So I definitely think that finding the perfect career is an ongoing process and career stabilization shouldn't necessarily be used as one of the milestones. I think that as long as you are financially independent, some meandering is OK.

As for me... meh. I'm 26 and I do feel like an adult even though I'm not married and don't have any kids. Those are not things that I'm looking for anytime soon. I don't (yet?) feel the pull to put down roots somewhere. I do look at marriage and kids as milestones, but more like something vague that I'll probably get around to doing one of these days, not something I have to do. I have some friends (my age) that got married the first chance they got... and I had always suspected that they would. That's great for them because it's what they wanted, but I have never felt any pressure or in any rush to do so. I don't think that makes me somehow less adult than they are. Frankly, I'm enjoying the this time of being financially stable and also independent. Gives me a chance to get my shit straight before having to worry about two or more people's shit being straight. Perhaps my increasing number of married friends will have the last laugh when I can no longer find anyone to come get beers with me, or hit up the beach, or Vegas for the weekend. But if getting married makes them lame, well I guess that would be their problem. :smoking:

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I think the distaste for children living with parents actually comes from the parents who were really looking forward to that vacation time/golden years without having to financially support their kids and deal with their kids making too much noise and keeping them up at 2am thing.

See, this is probably another of them uniquely WASPy sentiment that I'm talking about. This is anecdotal but many older folks I know of in the Asian-American communities continously express their wish to have their adult children living with them in the same household.

My point was that the two need have nothing to do with each other. My parents, for instance, were perfectly satisfactory and I loved them not at all. Even if you do love your parents, though, the notion that a "strong family bond," i.e. voluntary service is a "positive sign" is ethically dubious, to say the least.

I don't even know where to start on this but you sure got me intrigued .......... could you explain a bit more why "strong family bond" = "voluntary service" or why that is ethically dubious?

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I think the distaste for children living with parents actually comes from the parents who were really looking forward to that vacation time/golden years without having to financially support their kids and deal with their kids making too much noise and keeping them up at 2am thing.

Yet most of those parents have created the monster by allowing the kids to run free and not go out anf get a starter job at 16 and get a taste of actual responsibility. They've enabled too long.

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There's something uniquely WASPy about this whole sentiment that to continue to live with one's parents or to return to live with them after college is a sign of not-growing up. In many cultures, as long as you're financially independent and contribute to household chores and financial obligations, there's nothing wrong with that. I think that if anything, that just signifies an even stronger family bond and a positive sign of maturity.

Do the parents of the adult children generally continue to be the head of the household, responsible for setting the household rules? Or does each family sub-unit have control over their own lives (to a certain extent)?

If I were to decide to move back in with my parents, even though I would be expected to contribute to chores and finances, it would still be their roof, their rules. That would mean that to live with them, I would have to go to church every Sunday, have prayers before every meal, and could not have boyfriends come visit me if they were open about being atheist (and I'm not talking about sex, just visiting the house). When I was 23 and visiting my parents at Christmas, my then boyfriend was going to pick me up to go hiking, and my parents wouldn't let him come to the house. This is part of why I live 1500 miles away. But it seems that in some cultures, parents setting those kinds of house rules for their adult children would be acceptable.

I don't think there's anything wrong with being an adult contributing member of a multi-generational household, but I don't think it can be called a positive sign of maturity if it hinges on having to accept the same beliefs and values as your parents.

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I cannot agree here either. Not entirely. It's a point to be sure, but the introductory service jobs, the McDonald's, the Wendy's...those jobs are always going to be there. They should be breeding grounds for the teenager looking to get a start with some sort of simple skills and social interactions that these jobs bring. However, due to the affluence of the parents throughout the 90s and into the 2000s, far to many teams would prefer to simply be handed cash and gifts because they feel entitled to it.

Yeah, these jobs still exist, the thing is, they're now filled by others (older people desperate for something to do, or adults out of a job who need money, any kind of money, now)

Kids have ALWAYS been a hassle for employers. It's just that work-shortage meant they could avoid it.

Heck, back in the 60's and 70's there are stories of people quitting high school and immediately getting a job at a wharf or a factory and stuff like that, and it's just not happening now.

I do still live with my parents (26 years old) but I suspect I'd fall under "special circumstances" (both for my handicap's sake and for the mental breakdown I had when i did live on my own)

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Guest Raidne

Jax: Yeah? Personally, I think it's the terrible economy. It's not like most people living with their parents ideally want to be there, I don't think. There just aren't a lot of jobs out there where you can tread water at 40 hours a week and live outside the house right now and still have any money left to go out.

And yes, both that and my previous comment are WASPy. I'm a WASP. This is all I know.

Also, I'll just add that my Mom motivated me to not live and home by being totally insufferable and generally unpleasant, so that's always a good strategy if the high school job thing doesn't work out.

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I cannot agree here either. Not entirely. It's a point to be sure, but the introductory service jobs, the McDonald's, the Wendy's...those jobs are always going to be there. They should be breeding grounds for the teenager looking to get a start with some sort of simple skills and social interactions that these jobs bring. However, due to the affluence of the parents throughout the 90s and into the 2000s, far to many teams would prefer to simply be handed cash and gifts because they feel entitled to it.

Man, you Midwesterners are banging the drum for teens to work the Fryalator pretty hard. Were y'all disappointed by the consistency of your Mcflurry last go around? :P

I been working various jobs since I was 16 - but only high quality fastfood like Vie De France and Chipotle. It's a whole world of difference horrifically burning yourself on a pot of French Onion Soup for minimum wage as opposed to horrifically burning yourself on something uncouth like french fry grease...for minimum wage.

Anyway, I'd still argue the bluehairs are threatening to crowd teens out of their Walmart and Subway dream jobs. And if the retirees ever find out about Hollister or Abercrombie it could end up destroying the hopes of teens ever being gainfully employed again. How they going to compete with someone who actually shared a paper route with Abercrombie and Fitch? Loitering is already on a dangerous uptick since the start of the recession.

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Hm. I'm 23 live at home and have had part time jobs for a while, but I do feel vaugely guilty and awkward when i'm underemployed - otoh, i'm a student and moving out would be a really financially dumb move that in a sense would be more of a childish whim, being something I want but don't really need. I don't pay rent, but other than that I do try to contribute to the household and generally keep my finances sensibly in order, which my parents don't really get - they see money as being very fluid within the family and it dosen't occur to them, for example, that I have a job becuase i'm obviously saving up to pay for university myself, when in their opinion this is a strange insistence when it might hurt my grades, because they can just pay for it, duh. (It should be pointed out its not a huge sum. Go welfare state go.)

I have a hard time figuring out whats a genuine cultural norm and whats just the effect of scarcity and lack of means. My parents were living in something like a college dorm at 35 with two kids (apparently, my sister and I slept in drawers) because of housing shortages. Adults?

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