Brienne's last word

[MoJo]

I've been reading this board ever since i finished AFFC a couple of weeks ago. Some of the theories on here i agree with i.e R+L=J, Sandor = Gravedigger etc. However, i don't agree with the theory that Brienne shouted 'Sword' before she was (presumably) hanged.

I think it is quite obvious what she said. SAPPHIRES!. She has clearly fallen for Jaime by the end of AFFC. Who wouldn't think of the ones they love when death comes knockin'? I know i certainly would.

[corrupted disciple]

She shouts HODOR

... it is known

[MoJo]

:rofl:

[dolorouseddwasright]

Welcome to the board, Mojo. :)

I feel it is my duty to let you know that there is already a thread (somewhere) about Brienne's last word. I posted some theories on there myself a while back. You may want to search for it and see if you like any of the ideas presented there.

(I believe one of my theories was that Brienne's last word was "bitch". Because that's probably what she thought Uncat was at that point).

Happy Boarding. :)

[Lady Winter Rose]

Just before Brienne the Boring got noose, UnCat give her pick:

Oathkeeper (which she needs to use agains Jaime)

or

Noose -to Podric and her old friend [?!],too(if she wouldn't kill Jaime) :ack:

I think she said Ice (Oathkeeper is part Ice).

[Gurkhal]

Just before Brienne the Boring got noose, UnCat give her pick:

Oathkeeper (which she needs to use agains Jaime)

or

Noose -to Podric and her old friend [?!],too(if she wouldn't kill Jaime)

I think she said Oathkeeper since I'm not sure she knows that Oathkeeper is made from Ice, or at the least that should give a clearer signal to the outlaws. But yes I would actually think that Brienne will fall now from her straight and narrow and set out to assassinate Jamie.

[Magnus]

"Stannis" seems to me to be the most logical reply. Since she made Cat swear that she wouldn't interpose herself between Brienne and her vengeance on Stannis.

[MoJo]

"Stannis" seems to me to be the most logical reply. Since she made Cat swear that she wouldn't interpose herself between Brienne and her vengeance on Stannis.

I certainly wouldn't call it a "logical reply". I don't think Catelyn The Undead has any political motivations (at the moment). Hers is a quest for blood and revenge.

[Tywin Lannister]

To be frank, I don’t understand how shouting “sword” at that point would serve Brianne. Catelyn already believes Brianne to be an oathbreaker, and I wonder if she would trust a new oath she’d make – in a noose at that. For all Catelyn knows, Brianne may swear an oath to kill Jaime, then ride to him to tell him that he has Zombie Cat is at large.

So, that Brianne would attempt to take Catelyn on her own honor by reminding her of her promise not to hold her from Stannis seems quite possible, although whether Zombie Cat would hold true to the promise she made to an oathbreaker is a question.

Or, she might have indeed shouted “Saphires” or Jaime’s name before she died. It would certainly be an interesting twist on George’s part – a cliffhanger that actually ends with a person falling.

[RobMRobM]

My theory was that, if not "Sword, it would have been "Arya." She got firm word that Arya was alive. That would get Un-Cat's attention and help her realize that Brienne was doing good. R

[Errant Bard]

To be frank, I don’t understand how shouting “sword” at that point would serve Brienne. Catelyn already believes Brienne to be an oathbreaker

No. Catelyn, unlike the other BwB members, is not certain that the girl is an oathbreaker, that is why she gives her a chance. Your reasoning means you don't even understand why Cat gives Brienne a choice at all, but she did, it's in the text, it's canon. That chance has seemingly not yet evaporated, because Brienne refused to choose, so there is minimal possibility that a last-time choice could still work.

The other alternatives mean either dying or circumstances so much more convoluted than screaming the word you were just told was you only escape from the noose that it's ridiculous.

I guess, as a third option, "Stannis" can make sense, since it was explicitly made a joker from the Cat oath, but it would be surprising from someone as slow as Brienne, when she's actually in another context altogether, a stressful one.

ETA: But of course the most natural scenario is that Brienne blew her chance back in the cave, screams "sword" anyway, in a faint hope it'll be like in the movies, then dies. Sucks to be lawful-stupid like Ned, where by the time you realize it's sometimes worth it to have a dent in your honour, you have to sacrifice it all but it's way too late.

PS: I took the liberty of correcting Brienne's name in the quote, hope you don't mind.

[Happy Ent]

I guess, as a third option, "Stannis" can make sense, since it was explicitly made a joker from the Cat oath, […]

As you know from countless previous incarnations of this debate, Catelyn isn’t present at the hanging, so nobody would get it. So it makes no sense.

[Errant Bard]

Oh, I don't know, we don't really have a good description of who does what, Brienne being pretty preoccupied with Pod. We hear only Lem and Jack-be-lucky, but it's rather obvious that even if Jack-be-lucky was hanging one too, which he doesn't seem to, two would no be enough to hang the three of them at the same time, so yeah.

But anyway, I didn't claim it made much sense, just that as far as screamed word go, Stannis would have a slightly better chance of working than anything else beside sword, provided the right circumstances exist (Cat within earshot, that is, and willing to listen)

As Hyle Hunt proves, "sword" is obviously THE magic word here anyway, even out of Cat's earshot: Ser Hyle was shouting that he would kill Jaime Lannister, but the Hound cuffed him across the face and shut him up. Like he would shout that if it was totally useless to agree on killing Jaime even now. (well, as useless as everything else, after the trial there's not much hope no matter what. You know my pet crackpot theory is that Brienne dies and comes back, and is actually the second vision of Dany in "Bride of Fire" :P)

[Errant Bard]

My theory was that, if not "Sword, it would have been "Arya." She got firm word that Arya was alive. That would get Un-Cat's attention and help her realize that Brienne was doing good.

Oh really? Why would that make Catelyn trust her or retract her order to kill Jaime Lannister, exactly? (you know, Jaime, the guy who just took Riverrun and is leading the Lannisters army, the same one who pushed Bran to die.)

After all, Brienne did utter the name "Sansa" before, and from my point of view it didn't help her any. And knowledge doesn't make anyone good, it just makes him knowledgeable. Plus, there is nothing firm in "Arya was alive", everyone knows she went to Saltpans, not how she fared after the Inn/Leaving Sandor. When I say everyone I mean the BwB: obviously they know the locals who Sandor scared off in the inn, and Sandor actually snatched Arya from them... the guys they are pursuing and killing are the bloody mummers, those who destroyed Saltpans, that's no coincidence.

[RobMRobM]

Oh really? Why would that make Catelyn trust her or retract her order to kill Jaime Lannister, exactly? (you know, Jaime, the guy who just took Riverrun and is leading the Lannisters army, the same one who pushed Bran to die.)

After all, Brienne did utter the name "Sansa" before, and from my point of view it didn't help her any. And knowledge doesn't make anyone good, it just makes him knowledgeable. Plus, there is nothing firm in "Arya was alive", everyone knows she went to Saltpans, not how she fared after the Inn/Leaving Sandor. When I say everyone I mean the BwB: obviously they know the locals who Sandor scared off in the inn, and Sandor actually snatched Arya from them... the guys they are pursuing and killing are the bloody mummers, those who destroyed Saltpans, that's no coincidence.

At minimum, it should stop the hanging for a few minutes, so Un-Cat could hear what Brienne has to say. That might give Brienne an opportunity to actually get through to Un-Cat that she's not a bad actor here - UnCat is really not listening to Brienne up to the point of hanging. But, good point that news re Arya is less of a big deal with BWB than it might be with other groups because they have somewhat updated info that she was somewhere in the area not that far back. - Rob

[Errant Bard]

That might give Brienne an opportunity to actually get through to Un-Cat that she's not a bad actor here

I very much doubt they would let her down for that, but I've got to ask: How would Brienne convince Catelyn that she is not working for Jaime Lannister, didn't refuse a direct order and is actually different than during her trial, where she had ample opportunity to speak?

[Magnus]

"Arya" doesn't make much sense, since the BwoB already know that Arya was with the Hound, last they heard.

[Tywin Lannister]

ETA: But of course the most natural scenario is that Brienne blew her chance back in the cave...

Actually, that is what I meant. It is understandable that Cately gave Brianne a benefit of doubt at first, but after she refused Cately outright (and actually went as far as defending Jaime - the man Catelyn holds partially responsible for Red Wedding), I don't see why she should believe Brianne if she has a change of heart now, when she is in a noose. For all Catelyn knows, any oath Brianne might swear right now can be just an attempt to get out of noose, just like Ser Hyle's "oath".

[Errant Bard]

Brienne, not Brianne. (easy to remember: it's like the real world place, famous for the battle of Brienne, or John of Brienne, king of Jerusalem)

But anyway, Brienne was still offered her choice after defending Jaime, at the very end. Pressed, she said "I will not make that choice" just before Cat says "Hang them". She did not make the choice. I don't see what has changed that much between then and now that she's in the noose, except she walked a bit: The hanging threat was always there, and the evidence she was protecting Jaime was, too.

The reason Cat could give the task to Brienne is the very reason Brienne chooses to risk hanging by not answering immediately: Catelyn knows the girl, and she's straight as an arrow, exceedingly stupid and honest, to the point of being able to sacrifice Pod, Hyle and her life because she doesn't want/doesn't think about lying/breaking a vow. (yes Brienne herself thinks she's still bound to Catelyn by vow)

[Gurkhal]

While there is a merit to saying that if Brienne did not chose to make a choice before beiing hanged I think its entirely possible that when the noose was tightened. Self-preservation and fear of death may well have kicked in at the last moment and she grasped at whatever straw was closest to her mind.