Sniffing Sister's and Mother's Panties

[Cantabile]

I see two possibilities for a shrink:

1) One that will simply take the role of a counselor for him, basically giving him "The Talk" more professionally and skillfully than his parents could, and helping him through his emerging sexuality.

2) One that thinks what he has done is wrong, evil, whatever, and consequently makes him feel like a freak to be cured, making the entire issue far worse than it should be in reality.

[smegma]

It'd be a perfect time for him to stand up to her, but I don't realistically see it happening. He didn't stand up to her when she broke his arm, gave him a concussion, or set fire to his possessions, so I doubt he will this time either. I am wondering if I should intervene and try talking to her, or just stay out of it :\

Well, the kid may need a psychiatrist, but not because he's sniffing panties. It sounds like an absolutely destructive home and he may be dealing with it in all sorts of weird ways. No offense, but your son did the absolutely wrong thing in telling her and is obviously dealing with his own issues by being in such a volatile relationship.

So I was thinking about it, and I am even more convinced that he doesn't want incest. Incest is usually directed towards one family member. So he'd either really want his sister and that's what he'd go after, or he really wants his mom and that's who he'd be wanting. Since it's both, it's just a matter of him wanting female stimulation.

Seriously though, this situation is so much worse than a kid jerking off. Your son is being abused. Who knows what she's doing to the kids (even just mentally).

[The Evil Hat]

I'll admit that I might be basing this off of too many of my own experiences, but I think that the kid's likely reaction to the psychiatrist will be that he did something so bad (because, really, "cruella" doesn't sound likely to coach this in nice language at all) that it's being sent wholly outside of people. If twelve year old kids have any concept of psychiatrists, most of them do not believe that they are anything that "normal people" have anything to do with. IE, being screamed at by your mom for some time and then thrown at a stranger for "The Talk" is a sign of massive, massive wrongdoing.

[Starkess]

I can't speak for how normal or whatever this is for a boy, as I was born a girl, but I can say that if I found out that ANYONE was taking my used panties and sniffing them and masturbating without my knowledge...yeah I would be 100% not okay with that. To add in the fact that it was a family member--that is all kinds of wrong. Not saying that it's wrong for a boy to want to sniff panties or to masturbate or whatever, but I think it's a total violation of the other persons involved to be doing something like that on a regular basis.

But hopefully this can all get sorted out in a healthy manner for the boy.

(Also, anyone else keep thinking of the episode of Weeds where Shane (i think that's his name? been a while) finds the naked pictures of his mom and uses them to masturbate?)

[Cantabile]

Well, the kid may need a psychiatrist, but not because he's sniffing panties. It sounds like an absolutely destructive home and he may be dealing with it in all sorts of weird ways. No offense, but your son did the absolutely wrong thing in telling her and is obviously dealing with his own issues by being in such a volatile relationship.

So I was thinking about it, and I am even more convinced that he doesn't want incest. Incest is usually directed towards one family member. So he'd either really want his sister and that's what he'd go after, or he really wants his mom and that's who he'd be wanting. Since it's both, it's just a matter of him wanting female stimulation.

Seriously though, this situation is so much worse than a kid jerking off. Your son is being abused. Who knows what she's doing to the kids (even just mentally).

I agree that he did the wrong thing, but there's no going back now, sadly. One good thing is that he left the sister out of the story. That would have seriously damaged the relationship between the two kids, and if she told her friends, and word spread, that would have pretty much killed my grandson's social life and haunted him for many years to come. So I'm grateful he left those details out and only said it was Cruella's panties.

I've long since given up hope on their marriage being less abusive; that is simply who the wife is as a person. It's been going on since before they started dating, even. I don't know if it's a fault of my own child rearing, or what, but my son simply can't let relationships go, and will literally put up with endless abuse. He absolutely loathes her when she gets into her rages and turns satanic, yet no amount of hatred for her has managed to get him to leave her. Don't get me wrong, Cruella can be a very sweet and gentle person, and that's why he fell in love her, but she's the physical manifestation of Jekyll and Hyde. I've even told her on numerous occasions that I believe she might have a mood disorder, or at the very least some serious anger management issues, and that it's not healthy for the kids to see her rage against her husband so often, but as you can imagine my words were unwelcome to say the least, and she never sought any counseling or treatment.

Sigh.

[Ixodes]

Cantabile -- sorry that you and your family are going through this. I hope it works out. At that age in development I think one needs to be cautious in drawing any conclusions about future habits/sexuality. I think a quiet word with a trusted adult can help kids realize appropriate limits.

[一方通行]

Do you really need a cold, hard, logical argument about why it's wrong?

yeah actually, id appreciate one. 'because i think its icky' wont fly. neither will 'everyone thinks its icky'.

If you can't differentiate between having confusing, sexual feelings about your mom and actually taking her dirty underwear and masturbating to it regularly, then that's your problem, not mine.

i agree that this is wrong, but its not any more wrong then doing the same with the panties of 'random female friend X' without her knowledge or consent.

[Spastic Plastic]

Bitch sounds crazy. Reminds me of an obsessive and abusive girlfriend I had in my high school senior year.

Seriously, I'm much more worried for your son than your grandson.

[Crazydog7]

Well I suppose we should all be grateful the boy didn't go straight to two girls one cup or any one of 100 other things that are much worse.

Seriously though this happens. It always amazes me the number of decent well meaning people who give their pubescent children access to a computer and are shocked when this happens.

It can certainly be awkward as hell but it is nothing to freak out over. Whatever makes you and your son feel better chalk it up to youthful sexual experimentation or lifelong sexual fetish. Repressing whatever it turns out to be is just going to make the situation worse. Have a conversation about it and acknowledge it but don't dwell on it overmuch.

I'm glad for your grandson in the respect that when I was his age sniffing panties would have been a mild step for me. Everyone in the family knew what was happening but was either to embarrassed or to polite to say anything. Now 15 years older and wiser I can hardly blame them.

Your position as a grandfather is one of the most important a nonjudgmental, non critical role. The best advice I ever received regarding my sexual quirks I received from my granddad. Johnny, I don't care what you do just don't scare the horses.

[Turinqui-Calima]

It'd be a perfect time for him to stand up to her, but I don't realistically see it happening. He didn't stand up to her when she broke his arm, gave him a concussion, or set fire to his possessions, so I doubt he will this time either. I am wondering if I should intervene and try talking to her, or just stay out of it :\

Wow, I feel so bad for your grandson and am hoping that you're son can get up the courage to stand up to Cruella when it's about protecting his son rather than protecting himself.

Re porn, alot of porn makes it seem normal to have an interest in moms and sisters. Even wester porn has a lot of incest and getting a sexy step-sister seems to be like hitting the jackpot in a lot of Japanese anime. I'm sure it will influence a 12 year old a lot, although I don't think restricting him from porn is the answer. Nothing your grandson has done sounds like something that requires a shrink.

As everyone else says, I think the keys are to NOT make your grandson feel like there's something wrong with him and to try to guide him a little. The important thing here is for BOTH children not to get hurt/embarrased and for the adults to act like responsible and understanding adults.

[Eyelesbarrow]

I see two possibilities for a shrink:

1) One that will simply take the role of a counselor for him, basically giving him "The Talk" more professionally and skillfully than his parents could, and helping him through his emerging sexuality.

2) One that thinks what he has done is wrong, evil, whatever, and consequently makes him feel like a freak to be cured, making the entire issue far worse than it should be in reality.

I am afraid that the second possibility is likely to happen.

Cantabile - Can't you give him the Talk? You sound like a cool granddad and you're both close and distant enough for the boy not to feel that awkward or guilty about the whole thing.

ETA: Just saw that the thread description is "a family dilemma I don't want to deal with." So there goes my suggestion.

Really sorry to hear about the whole thing, Cantabile. Looks like this opened a big can of worms now. Hope this gets sorted out.

[Spring Bass]

Has your son gone and seen any counseling? I mean, being unable or unwilling to leave is usually part of being abused - if I remember right, it usually takes women a couple of times to leave an abusive boyfriend/husband.

[Cantabile]

Bitch sounds crazy. Reminds me of an obsessive and abusive girlfriend I had in my high school senior year.

Seriously, I'm much more worried for your son than your grandson.

I worry for him too, especially because of how erratic she can be when she gets that way. In the first few months of their relationship he often had to make elaborate excuses to sleep in the locked guest room rather than with her, because he was sincerely paranoid that she was going to smother or stab him to death in his sleep.

I'm glad for your grandson in the respect that when I was his age sniffing panties would have been a mild step for me. Everyone in the family knew what was happening but was either to embarrassed or to polite to say anything. Now 15 years older and wiser I can hardly blame them.

I don't think I'm alone when I say: details, sir! :D

Has your son gone and seen any counseling? I mean, being unable or unwilling to leave is usually part of being abused - if I remember right, it usually takes women a couple of times to leave an abusive boyfriend/husband.

I don't believe he's done any formal counseling. The thing is, before they got married he ended up despising her so much that he did everything he could to get her to break up with him, since he couldn't do it himself. And then when she did break up with him, for the next six months or so he spent a ridiculous amount of time, energy, and money trying to win her back, which he eventually did.

It's really painful for me to watch the situation. It's a lot like a harmful substance abuse problem, I suppose: she's truly like a cancer to his life, yet no matter how much he knows he can quit, he can't.

Most people always say, "You should've left" about abusive relationships, as if it's a simple matter of logic, but a lot of those victims are truly trapped in the relationship as surely as though it were a maximum security prison.

[Analu]

yeah actually, id appreciate one. 'because i think its icky' wont fly. neither will 'everyone thinks its icky'.

I have no desire to extensively debate this, because to me, situations of this sort are about intuitive moral thinking, not critical thinking. So there really isn't a definitive way of winning or losing the argument, since everyone has a different moral compass. Yours is obviously very different than mine.

i agree that this is wrong, but its not any more wrong then doing the same with the panties of 'random female friend X' without her knowledge or consent.

Seems a couple female boarders here have already stated that they would feel very violated if they knew a family member was doing this with their panties, so...

And quite a few people here, including the OP, have also stated that they feel it's an invasion of privacy, a violation of trust, crossing boudaries, etc, so I doubt I'm coming out of left field with thinking it's inherently wrong (Or as you liked to marginalize it, "It's just icky").

Best I can do for you for now. Will try to remember to check on this on Monday to see if any followup is needed.

Cantabile - Sorry to hear about how Cruella is taking this. Hope it all works out.

[Old Nan]

This thread certainly delivers, and it gets better and better with the page.

I have no desire to extensively debate this, because to me, situations of this sort are about intuitive moral thinking, not critical thinking.

Sez the guy calling himself Analu, huh? Speaking of nasty disgusting things that should be outlawed...

[Analu]

Sez the guy calling himself Analu, huh? Speaking of nasty disgusting things that should be outlawed...

That's my name in Hawaiian. I'm from Hawaii. It means "Andrew".

Try and come up with a word pun for that, Old Nan. Unfortunately, your name has nothing I can make fun of.

[Darkostar]

And quite a few people here, including the OP, have also stated that they feel it's an invasion of privacy, a violation of trust, crossing boudaries, etc, so I doubt I'm coming out of left field with thinking it's inherently wrong .

No, but, as you said, everyone's moral compass is different. Obviously, this is not the right way for him to indulge his fetish, and he needs to learn the right ways to approach his desires, and he'll need support for that.

[Old Nan]

Well, Andrew means 'masculine' or something like it, which combined with the buttfucking takes us dangerously close to the Spartan thread's territory. I'm just saying, I feel icky is a problematic basis for universal ethics. Which are problematic in their own right, for that matter, but it's the hole you were leaving open. So to speak.

[Analu]

No, but, as you said, everyone's moral compass is different. Obviously, this is not the right way for him to indulge his fetish, and he needs to learn the right ways to approach his desires, and he'll need support for that.

Agreed

Well, Andrew means 'masculine' or something like it, which combined with the buttfucking takes us dangerously close to the Spartan thread's territory. I'm just saying, I feel icky is a problematic basis for universal ethics. Which are problematic in their own right, for that matter, but it's the hole you were leaving open. So to speak.

I've known you for 10 minutes, but have already decided that I don't like you, Old Nan.

But I would like to smell your panties.

[Shryke]

I see two possibilities for a shrink:

1) One that will simply take the role of a counselor for him, basically giving him "The Talk" more professionally and skillfully than his parents could, and helping him through his emerging sexuality.

2) One that thinks what he has done is wrong, evil, whatever, and consequently makes him feel like a freak to be cured, making the entire issue far worse than it should be in reality.

I think it's gonna end up something like 2.

The thing is, the minute you bring in counselors, you've made this a Big Deal. It's now something strange and weird and public he's got to go to therapy for.

Hopefully, he'll come out ok though. We're all pretty resilient. Or equally fucked up. Either way really.