SFF author Joel Rosenberg arrested after carryin gun into a police department

[Werthead]

Interesting story.

SFF author Joel Rosenberg was arrested after carrying a gun into a Minneapolis police office. You might say, "Okay, sounds reasonable." However, Rosenberg is a gun rights advocate who habitually carries a weapon around legally. In this case he informed personnel at the courthouse before he arrived that he was carrying, in accordance with state law, and had filled out the necessary paperwork. He'd even been given specific permission to do so. Nonetheless, upon arrival Rosenberg was rushed by security personnel and disarmed. Because he'd done nothing wrong, his weapon was given back to him. Rosenberg then posted a series of open letters and YouTube videos taking the mickey out of the arresting officer. After this Rosenberg was arrested for carrying a weapon into a 'courthouse', with bail set at $100K.

Even more bizarre is the fact that the original reason Rosenberg went into the office was to use Freedom of Information legislation to get more paperwork on his wife's arrest a few weeks earlier for what appears to be spurious reasons (to the point where the case was thrown out) and had pissed off a number of cops, including the one he was meeting at the station. As the linked article states, Rosenberg appears to have been arrested for the crimes of 1) knowing more about the law than the police and 2) committing 'contempt of cop'.

An intriguing story. It seems to be a pretty open and shut case where Rosenberg did nothing wrong and was punished out of petty vindictiveness. Just to prove it, someone using the IP address of the Minneapolis police station went into the linked article and several related ones and started trolling the comments threads. Bizarre.

[Renasko]

Bah, keep him locked up. The man can't write.

Admittedly, I've only read his co-work with Feist on 'Murder in LaMut'. :P

[zollo]

Bah, keep him locked up. The man can't write.

Admittedly, I've only read his co-work with Feist on 'Murder in LaMut'. :P

At least that was an improvement on Feist's usual standards!

Now it is just time to sit back and await the arrival of Tormund. :thumbsup:

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Grab some viocoden laced Jack Daniels and this is the perfect trigger for Tor'mund Gaidon.

This does sound bizarre and rather arbitrary.

[Ixodes]

For carry permits in Minnesota there are places where you do not have automatic permission to carry. State or local courthouse complexes are an area where you cannot carry unless you have express permission by the sheriff. Now this is where it gets a bit foggy.

Even for those who have express permission, it is expected (and insisted upon) that when entering a courthouse complex the permit holder will check in with the courthouse guards. The gun will be handed over, placed in a lockbox or other secure container, then retrieved when they leave, even though the permit holder has express permission. There has yet to be a test case in the courts so that's why there is this grey area. So the first issue is whether that Minneapolis police station can be considered a courthouse complex. I don't have enough info to have an informed opinion.

Say this cannot be considered a courthouse complex. Can the Minneapolis Police Department ban permit holders from carrying inside the building? For my private business, I can choose whether or not to allow a permit holder to carry in my building. If a person with a gun walks in, I can ask them to remove the gun from my building. If they don't comply I call the police and they would fall under trespass laws. Now a public building cannot trump the state laws and the state law gives Rosenberg the right to carry a weapon. Again this is an area with some unclear margins that have not been specifically tested in court.

Since all the charges were filed after the fact, it looks like vindictive behavior from the police. If he was breaking the law he should have been arrested at that time. Watching the video, the officer (IMHO) precipated the issue by grabbing the gun but Rosenberg complied with his request that the gun go out of the building. Calling it an assault is creative writing on Rosenberg's part, however.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

FUCKING BULLSHIT.

[Cantabile]

Every time I gain a little more faith in the police force, I read something like this and it goes out the window again.

[Merentha]

Every time I gain a little more faith in the police force, I read something like this and it goes out the window again.

When does this happen?

[BigFatCoward]

twats carrying guns anywhere, lawfully or not should be harassed at every possible opportunity.

[MercenaryChef]

Even as an american who has hunted and shot for most my life I am disturbed by the people who truly feel they need to be armed. The old west way of thinking is well old.

[Mad Monkey]

*is any niche group ever NOT vocal??

They kind of have to be, if you think about it. If they were in the majority, they wouldn't need to argue; their behavior wouldn't be consider a niche or a subculture, but the norm.

I think it's kind of weird that the cops even agreed to let someone who already has a grudge against the department walk into a police station with a gun in the first place. I'm not trying to go after the concealed-carry types here, but it just seems like an unnecessary risk (it's not like it's for self-defense, right? If he has to turn over the gun to be locked away while he's in the building, he might as well just leave it at home or something).

[Ixodes]

There is a vocal niche* group of "open carry" proponents in the US. It seems that Mr. Rosenberg is one of them. These are the people who openly carry in Starbucks, etc.

Darling thinks it's all rather ridiculous and he has a concealed carry permit for a reason. So he can carry concealed, of course.

In Minnesota it is called "Permit to Carry a Handgun" rather than concealed carry permit. This was intentional -- the permit holder can openly carry the gun or conceal it, depending on their choice. I agree with Darling -- concealing the weapon makes more sense to me. I think it would be a major pain in the ass to deal with all the discord walking around openly with a pistol would cause.

I just noticed that Rosenberg is the author of the manual about carrying a handgun legally in Minnesota, the manual used in the carry permit training classes. Heh. Not only does he hate the Minneapolis police department he also would relish the chance to fight this out in court. They really should've swallowed their pride and not filed charges.

[blasted_saber]

twats carrying guns anywhere, lawfully or not should be harassed at every possible opportunity.

So the deer hunter way out in the bush, or the duck hunter out in the lake should be harassed? Gee, so much for rights and freedoms.

In Canada, its illegal to harass a hunter. YOU will be charged.

As to the issue of concealed/open carry in non-hunting/sport shooting related activities, I cant comment. We dont have that in Canada.

[BigFatCoward]

So the deer hunter way out in the bush, or the duck hunter out in the lake should be harassed? Gee, so much for rights and freedoms.

approximately 1000 people are shot in the states and canada every year in hunting accidents. so yeah, fuck their rights and freedoms.

[blasted_saber]

approximately 1000 people are shot in the states and canada every year in hunting accidents. so yeah, fuck their rights and freedoms.

Find me a stat for that, please, as I believe its nowhere near that, especially in Canada. On a side note, abut 45000 are hurt or killed in car accidents in the US, should we ban cars as well?

[Erik of Hazelfield]

Guns are for hunting and sport shooting. If you think you need a gun for protection, you're either wrong or you live in a fucked up society.

[Stego]

Guns are not for harassing cops just to see if they agree with your interpretation of 'freedoms.' You say Sir or Ma'am and hope they don't go gestapo on you. That's what the fuck they are, after all.

This 'science fiction author' (hardly) was picking a fight. As such? Disorderly conduct.

(I'm not saying I agree with that, but a cop will be quick to invent it. And folks who don't know this are stupid.)

[Old Nan]

Deer, duck, vermin, what's the difference.

[BigFatCoward]

Find me a stat for that, please, as I believe its nowhere near that, especially in Canada. On a side note, abut 45000 are hurt or killed in car accidents in the US, should we ban cars as well?

just do a google search, i found more or less the same info on every search. by the way that is shot, not killed, most info suggested 100-150 are actually killed.

the difference between guns and cars is clear. one is meant for harm and one isn't.

[blasted_saber]

just do a google search, i found more or less the same info on every search. by the way that is shot, not killed, most info suggested 100-150 are actually killed.

the difference between guns and cars is clear. one is meant for harm and one isn't.

So? The pooint im trying to make is legal firearms injuries and death are statistically tiny compared to other, more mundane things in life.

I live in an area where I could at anytime find a bear looking in my kitchen room window. Or strolling through the backyard when my wife and child are out there. What shall I do then? Clap my hands and shout? The vast majority of Canada still has many predators (bears, wolves, mountaion lions etc) roaming its forests. I also enjoy hunting. Im in no way hurting anyone, much less killing someone by myself out in the bush hunting deer.

As incomprehensible as it may seem to you, guns are still very much a safe and useful thing to have on hand, to those of us who dont live in a major city centre.