Jaime Lannister in season 2...

[Padraig]

I also think introducing the Karstark character in Season 2 would give the Robb, Catelyn and Jaime arcs more strength throughout the season.

I agree that there are definitely advantages of having him appear in S2. Hopefully they can fit everything in. Although do you mean 6 or 7 episodes over both S2 and S3? He barely is in aCoK, so even with an expanded role, I couldn't see him being in more than 4 episodes. (A couple showing his hatred for Jaime and a couple showing the war against Tywin).

Robb sending him back from the West gets too messy. Robb needed the men. And Robb wouldn't want him fighting Tywin at Riverrun etc.

Anyhow, will definitely be interesting to see how they pursue that whole storyline. :)

[Loras]

I agree that there are definitely advantages of having him appear in S2. Hopefully they can fit everything in. Although do you mean 6 or 7 episodes over both S2 and S3? He barely is in aCoK, so even with an expanded role, I couldn't see him being in more than 4 episodes. (A couple showing his hatred for Jaime and a couple showing the war against Tywin).

I would give Karstark, 2 episodes in S3. Could go with 4/5 episodes in the second season. I think it could be quite important to have him in Riverrun when Jaime tries to escape. The only other named character present would be Edmure.

Good point about the west.

[Lord Varys]

I'm not sure if Jaime needs to feature more prominently in season 2. Showing the attempted escape on screen would be nice, and we really see him prominently in the end of this season. ACoK has a lot of more interesting and more important stories to tell. Jaime is going to return eventually, and this should be enough. And as his contract apparently resembles this situation, I'm sure there won't be that much changes. Everything else would either have to mean massive changes, or showing scenes of Jaime sitting in his cell over and over again. The first I don't like and the latter would be pointless.

[Maester May]

And as his contract apparently resembles this situation, I'm sure there won't be that many changes.

I had not heard this, thanks for the info!

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

I'm not sure why they would be adding more stuff to season two--more arcs, more scenes with Jaime, expanding the role of Rickard Karstark or whomever--when presumably the season would be overstuffed with things that are already important to the plot. If anything, they'd want to pare down what's in ACoK.

[Padraig]

I'm not sure why they would be adding more stuff to season two--more arcs, more scenes with Jaime, expanding the role of Rickard Karstark or whomever--when presumably the season would be overstuffed with things that are already important to the plot. If anything, they'd want to pare down what's in ACoK.

If we get a S2, we might have 2 extra episodes. So that will help. OTOH aCoK is a bigger book.

Still, I was trying to think what elements they could pare back on and few of the POV characters jump out at me. Renly and Loras do feature (relatively) prominently in S1, so that suggests that Cat's main storyline in S2 will appear. Theon is not been ignored in S1, so I can't see him been ignored either. And that means that Bran has to feature.

Sansa and Tyrion have to appear obviously. Arya's role might have been downplayed but we know they have cast Lommy already. So clearly that storyline is going to feature. And Dany has been very prominent so far. Similarly Jon. The only character that could be downplayed is Davos really. But I can't see how they could ignore Stannis and Mel, since they are the main antagonists (sort of) in aCoK. So, i'm really interested is seeing what they will do. :) There doesn't seem to be any big threads they can just ignore to save time.

Probably right that Karstark will not feature in aCoK, given all that. The easiest thing to do is introduce him when he returns with Robb in S3 (assuming Robb barely features in S2 also, which seems plausible). Even in the books, I barely paid any attention to him until then. OTOH, they could even exclude that whole storyline, although its a great moment for Robb and if they want the RW to work as powerfully as it could, given Robb some time to shine would be useful.

While Jaime could be one of the most popular characters, so ignoring him completely till the second last episode of any S2 would be a tough choice for them. The only thing I can say for sure is that I can't see how S2 could work with 10 episodes, given what they have done so far.

[Maester May]

If we get a S2, we might have 2 extra episodes. So that will help. OTOH aCoK is a bigger book.

Still, I was trying to think what elements they could pare back on and few of the POV characters jump out at me. Renly and Loras do feature (relatively) prominently in S1, so that suggests that Cat's main storyline in S2 will appear. Theon is not been ignored in S1, so I can't see him been ignored either. And that means that Bran has to feature.

Ones that jump out at me right now:

The Iron Islands. I think they could cut out the Damphair and possibly even Asha, as well as most of Theon's activities before coming to Winterfell. Really they could just pare it down to Theon meeting with his father and then not show much more until he overtakes Winterfell.

Maybe also a lot of details dealing with Bran, such as the Lady Hornwood plotline (although I think it is good for bringing in Ramsey Snow), the Walders, or possibly even the Reeds (although this would be a huge change, IMO).

Possibly some things in KL? I'm not too sure of what, other than cutting out minor characters like Lord Gyles and Lady Tanda, Lollys, etc. The Redwyne twins could almost certainly be nixed.

Maybe the Blackfish and Edmure are getting rolled into one character? I'm not really sure how they'll bring in the Blackfish at this point without changing his character to some extent. I hope this isn't the case since I like the Blackfish a lot and really kind of feel like he and Edmure are pretty different as characters.

Jon and the Wall: I don't think they can cut out much with Crastor's Keep. Maybe keep the incest out at this stage, because I think the audience might have incest overload (assuming the Targs aren't much different anyway) at this point. Gilly seems pretty essential to Sam's storyline, although I guess they could just push her back to season 3 when Sam returns to Crastors' keep. Still though, I think she's great for establishing that whole "there's-something-not-quite-right-here" vibe about Crastors. Qorin Halfhand must absolutely not be cut IMO, if anything they should expand his character a little. I absolutely love Jon's chapters in book 2 once he becomes involved. The last chapter or 2 involving them have a very Last of the Mohican's sort action/adventure feel to them and are my favorite of the series.

Arya: Maybe merge Biter and Rorge into one character, although I guess Arya wouldn't get her 3 deaths from Jhaqen. Maybe lose a character or two from Gregor's merry bunch and some of the people involved at Harrenhal. Armory Lorch for example could be merged with one of Gregor's men, and maybe not feature quite so prominently in his role with Rheagar's daughter's (not sure how to spell her name, sorry) death.

Danaerys: Her storyline in this book is the weakest of the 3 by far, IMO. I think the only relevant stuff that happened before her arrival in Qarth was fleshing out Jorah's character a bit and the slight growth of the dragons. Even in Qarth I think a lot of material could be nixed. Maybe they can bring in good ole "Arstan" a little earlier and fill us in on some good old Rhaegar info, maybe bringing in some information left out of season 1, or introduce some of his season 3 tales a little earlier to reduce some material from that season. IMO, this is the stuff that we'll see the most change from it's original form in the books. Maybe she can visit the Warlocks a little earlier and even obtain her Unsullied a bit earlier than anticipated. It's going to be a little tricky keeping the audience focused on her while being completely uninvolved with Westeros: I think bringing Barristan in a little early provides a little bit better linkage. Accelerating her plotline a bit more could also put her in Mereen a little sooner in S3, where we could see envoys arriving a bit earlier from characters that aren't "needed" in Westeros at the time, such as Victorian or Quentyn. Season 2 might be bigger than season 1, but IMO if they get the entirety of S3's essence, they're going to need to introduce it a little early, especially w/r/t Dany's stuff. It's either that or cut material.

Davos, Mel, and Stannis: Not really sure what they could do here. Maybe merge a little bit of the stuff with Storm's End's castellen and Renly's death (e.g. have them occur simultaneously or very close together), cut or reduce Shireen and/or Patchface.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

Padraig:

I was thinking about budgetary constraints as well. A big plot line for Rickard Karstark means the actor who plays him is a recurring guest star, which could be a big expense for an arc that isn't really necessary (Karstark's death doesn't need to feel tragic, really) and isn't in the books.

Maester May:

I don't think that they could get rid of Asha or the Lady Hornwood stuff without doing serious violence to the storyline at Winterfell. The Lady Hornwood stuff sets the stage for Ramsay, who ends up burning Winterfell at the end; and the Asha stuff is necessary to establish why Theon feels like he can't admit having lost the Stark children and has to murder the miller's sons. (Plus Ramsay and Asha are set to play major roles in season four/five/whenever.) I assume that they can get rid of minor characters like Black Lorren and Mikken and the Walders, without Asha and Lady Hornwood I think there'd be serious dramatic deficiencies.

And fast-tracking Daenerys's storyline would presumably make season two MORE expensive, as it would require abandoning Xaro's palace as a standing set and finding a location for Astapor as well as Qarth that would look visually distinct. And unless you push the storyline all the way until Dany takes over Astapor (which leaves little for her storyline in season three), there's no natural break there.

One thing that they could do is merge Gregor's men into two main ones, Chiswyck and the Tickler, one to be killed by Jaqen and one to be killed by Arya in season three.

[Maester May]

Maester May:

I don't think that they could get rid of Asha or the Lady Hornwood stuff without doing serious violence to the storyline at Winterfell. The Lady Hornwood stuff sets the stage for Ramsay, who ends up burning Winterfell at the end; and the Asha stuff is necessary to establish why Theon feels like he can't admit having lost the Stark children and has to murder the miller's sons. (Plus Ramsay and Asha are set to play major roles in season four/five/whenever.) I assume that they can get rid of minor characters like Black Lorren and Mikken and the Walders, without Asha and Lady Hornwood I think there'd be serious dramatic deficiencies.

And fast-tracking Daenerys's storyline would presumably make season two MORE expensive, as it would require abandoning Xaro's palace as a standing set and finding a location for Astapor as well as Qarth that would look visually distinct. And unless you push the storyline all the way until Dany takes over Astapor (which leaves little for her storyline in season three), there's no natural break there.

One thing that they could do is merge Gregor's men into two main ones, Chiswyck and the Tickler, one to be killed by Jaqen and one to be killed by Arya in season three.

Good points regarding Asha and Lady Hornwood, I suppose they do help set the scene a bit. I don't really see how fastracking Dany's stuff would make season 2 that much more expensive... nothing about the Astopor coup felt that "epic" to me. And that would still leave Yunkai and Mereen for her in S3. And as I said, it might do to have her in Mereen a little earlier, as it could set the scene for Westeros a bit earlier in viewers minds. I suppose much of that could be up to Martin, i.e. his involvement in the series and how important he thinks it is... although I'm not really sure how much cheaper season 3 would be than season 2. Sure, there's the KL invasion in season 2, but there's also a lot of epic fighting in season 3, including the stuff at the wall.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

I don't really see how fastracking Dany's stuff would make season 2 that much more expensive... nothing about the Astopor coup felt that "epic" to me. And that would still leave Yunkai and Mereen for her in S3.

They'd have to build an additional location for Astapor (which might entail traveling to another country, based on the current scouting in Iceland and Morocco for season two), come up with a unique Slavers' Bay 'look' for the set, the costumes, etc. Then they'd have to spend enough screen time there to establish the Unsullied, the possibility for a coup, et cetera, and then do a big battle scene that's described as featuring at least ten thousand people. I can't imagine that there would be time or money in the budget for that.

Besides which, the more I think about it, the more I think that it's more unsatisfying as a story arc for Dany; it feel weird to spend time in Qarth going to the Temple of the Undying and all that, and then put the big dramatic climax in a city a thousand miles away without the involvement of Xaro or anybody else who was introduced there.

[Padraig]

And I think Asha is the kind of character that will appeal to HBO. :) Damphair, Gyles etc could be dropped but they are very small roles. I was trying to think of something more significant. Dropping the Reeds would be major but I can't see how Bran's storyline would work then. And if we get to S3 they will have to start wondering about the Reed-Jon angle. Hard to ignore the Reeds.

I don't see an easy way to get rid of one of Blackfish/Edmure also. They both have specific roles.

I do think they have to combine a lot of characters Arya meets. Just too many.

If they need more of Dany, I think they could include her chapters from aSoS up to when she decides to go to the Slave Cities on the ship. That is still a reasonable cutoff and it means she would end the series with more of a purpose. It probably wouldn't be that expensives. But yes, i'm not helping by moving forward stuff. :) Having Barristan arrive earlier has advantages, as said though. I wouldn't have Dany arrive in Meereen until S3 though. Otherwise, that whole plot is half-started at the end of the season.

And the SE castellan's pre-death chapter is awesome. I'd hate to lose that.

And yes, doesn't take much to convince me that Rickard Karstark can wait until S3.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

I think it would make sense to make the relationship with Dany and Xaro a little more adversarial, rather than messing around too much with moving stuff forward or backward. The Qarth stuff might seem more relevant if Xaro was more actively scheming to get Dany under control, and so there was more of an arc there where Dany has to learn to see through and defeat this person who is ostensibly on her side.

[Asha—Not Yara!]

Here's an idea for Dany's storyline. Why not ditch the Qarth location and have all the important Qarth events take place in Astapor? That'd save them the trouble of having to get two different location sets, and we'd get to streamline some of the elements of Dany's storyline. I don't see why the House of the Undying couldn't be located in Astapor instead and maybe she goes through there after the coup?

Just some thoughts. :) There's probably good reasons for keeping Qarth events and Astapor events separate physical locations that I'm just not able to see right now.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

There's probably good reasons for keeping Qarth events and Astapor events separate physical locations that I'm just not able to see right now.

I don't really understand how mixing them would work. If Dany has the army of the Unsullied early on in her storyline, her relationship with Xaro, and with the Pureborn, and with everybody else would change quite a bit; she wouldn't just be some refugee with an interesting pet, she'd be the power base in the city. So Xaro wouldn't be refusing her ships, because she has a giant eunuch army that could destroy him at will and he'd want to buy her off. Besides, she wanted to free all the slaves in Slaver's Bay--this was the point of the coup against Astapor and so forth--so why would she get her slave army there and then just hang around for a few months visiting the local warlock hut?

The alternative is that she's hanging around Astapor watching them trade in slaves for half the season doing Qarth-y things and then deciding whimsically that she's hated slavery all this time and decided to uproot it. Which would make her seem less heroic and more like Lindsay Bluth from Arrested Development.

[Lord Varys]

Daenerys is the core character of the series. Apparently GRRM made the guys understand this, or else we would not seen her and Viserys practically as the main characters of the series in that behind the scenes video. I'm pretty sure that Dany's story is not downplayed in future seasons. They might cut down stuff a bit, but Jaime is not as important to the overall plot than Daenerys. So I really don't see a reason for him feature more prominently in season 2. I'd gladly see Jaime gone completely from this season if they give Davos, Stannis, and Melisandre the space they deserve. They, too, are more important to the story of this season than Jaime. There was even talk about dropping Selyse or Shireen. Sure, they are not that important, but they should be there. If Kevan Lannister can be around in season 1, surely Selyse can be there in season 2.

The Greyjoys are also important in season 2 as well. Stannis and Theon are the two great 'new' characters in this season. If someone could be downplayed it would be Renly as he is just there to be killed off.

[Padraig]

If Kevan Lannister can be around in season 1, surely Selyse can be there in season 2.

I think one issue is that HBO wouldn't want the cast to balloon grossly. While we lose a few members in S1, a lot more are introduced in aCoK. So they are going to have to make some judgement call on new faces. Since Kevan is already featuring, they are unlikely to drop him. So while Selyse would be nice, she isn't a key character. Balon, Asha, Stannis and Mel are all key characters.

They probably will up-play Renly if only to make the shock of his death greater. And given they haven't downplayed him in S1, I can't see them doing that in S2.

And yes, I can't see why they'd streamline Dany's role. She seems to be one of the most prominent characters in S1. So can't see them reducing her role in S2 or S3.

[Lord Varys]

I'm not sure that Renly is going to be that prominent in season 2, actually. And I'm still not sure that they are showing us much more of him in season 1 than was in the books - sex scenes don't count ;-). They could add a few more scenes - one would be enough, actually - about him and Loras plotting against Cersei. That's it. A lot of stuff involving him is happening offscreen in season 2, and really see no reason for them to build a set of Highgarden, just to show us, say, his wedding. There is as of yet no Highgarden in the books, and I'm not sure if we are going to visit it or Casterly Rock in this series.

There is also not that much happening in Renly's entourage. Okay, they could cut to him before Cat arrives there to give us a glimpse of Brienne, but what else is important about Renly? We don't even need to see the senior Tyrells at this point, either, as they would just disappear until season 3. Well, okay Garlan and Mace can appear during/after the Blackwater, but we really don't need a close look on them. The Tyrells should however feature prominently in season 3.

I really would like to see Renly explained more by the effects his outright treason has on Stannis. Renly is discussed more than once on Dragonstone, and they should really show this, Stannis' inner conflict, and do their last meeting right. As stupid as it may sound, I would rather see the Florents in the 'spotlight' in season 2 than the Tyrells. Stannis is the new major player in season 2, he really can be seen as a twisted male version of Daenerys - starting his campaign with practically nothing, and becoming ever more powerful with every challenge, at least until the Blackwater. And then there is the whole topic of Dany's visions in the House of the Undying. These scenes need to be in the series, of course. But the audience really needs to understand that this mystical Azor Ahai guy the Woman in Red is talking about, might in fact be Daenerys. There needs to be a connection between Stannis and Dany. For this they also need to integrate the talk between Davos and Saan about Ahor Ahai and Nissa Nissa (not necessarily between these two characters, but it has to be mentioned). For this reason I really would loathe to see the Dragonstone guys being downplayed. If they do season 1 right, Stannis Baratheon is going to be mentioned from time to time, and is thus somewhat a riddle to the audience, so whoever watched season 1 would not be that irritated by these new characters on that weird island. They will ask about this other brother to the King, and his relationship to the Lannisters.

The same is true about the Ironborn and the Greyjoys. Theon is in season 1, and the fact that he is a hostage rather than a ward is going to be addressed as well. So the audience is going to expect the series to show us Theon's background and use the Ironborn assets for the war.

[Padraig]

Right, I was more arguing that Renly's role (and thus Cat's part in that affair) wouldn't be downplayed. I shouldn't have said "up-played". That gives the wrong impression. It might happen but as you said, a couple extra scenes would do.

Fair point about the important conversations about Azor Ahai. That whole thread has to be explained someway. Davos seems to be the only way to do that in any S2.

The Florents will probably only feature by the way of extras. While Loras will keep flying the Tyrell flag until S3 I suppose.

[Asha—Not Yara!]

I don't really understand how mixing them would work. If Dany has the army of the Unsullied early on in her storyline, her relationship with Xaro, and with the Pureborn, and with everybody else would change quite a bit; she wouldn't just be some refugee with an interesting pet, she'd be the power base in the city. So Xaro wouldn't be refusing her ships, because she has a giant eunuch army that could destroy him at will and he'd want to buy her off. Besides, she wanted to free all the slaves in Slaver's Bay--this was the point of the coup against Astapor and so forth--so why would she get her slave army there and then just hang around for a few months visiting the local warlock hut?The alternative is that she's hanging around Astapor watching them trade in slaves for half the season doing Qarth-y things and then deciding whimsically that she's hated slavery all this time and decided to uproot it. Which would make her seem less heroic and more like Lindsay Bluth from Arrested Development.

But why even have Xaro at all? She and her group survive the Red Waste and find themselves in Astapor where they find Illyrio has ships waiting for them, but instead of sailing back, that's when Dany begins to scheme to get her army. After she has the unsullied, surely there's be some way for the warlocks to persuade her to visit their House of Undying? Maybe she's convinced they're an important faction to win over for Astapor's stability. Ah well, just a thought. If they have it play out the way they did in the books, that'd obviously work out best, so hopefully they'll make it work.

[Padraig]

But why even have Xaro at all?

If they wanted to downplay Dany, that's one way to go. I'm sure they could find a way for it to make sense. But instead, HBO has portrayed Dany as a fairly central character. Including having the actress appear at this TCA event in January. It doesn't sound like the action of a production that wants to reduce Dany's role in any S2/S3. Because obviously, if you combine her storyline from aSoS with aCoK, that will clearly leave her with less to do when any S3 comes along.