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What was the single most stupid decesion any character made?


Horatz

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My vote goes to Cersei and her scheme for getting free soldiers by arming the Faith.

Either that, or her insistence on casting away precious tools instead of supervising them (I mean the Tyrells).

Most other mistakes pale before that... <_<

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Clear one for me:

Eddard for telling Cersei to go in exile before speaking with Robert. It's especially egregious because he has no strong personal guard or swords to speak of. In fact, I think it's a bit out of character for Eddard.

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Dany trusting Mirri Maz Durr with Drogo's life. Can't she even wonder what she would do if she was asked to save Robert Baratheon's life, having witnessed friends, children and adults alike be brutally killed by Gregor, before being raped multiple times on the spot then made a personal slave to Cersei? Not like she doesn't have these emotions, as she vows to see some Dothrakis "die screaming" for merely leaving her even before MMD dies, and doesn't have much shame in breaking a vow made to slavers (which Drogo, and she, by extension, was). It's more than stupidity, it's stupidity compounded by hypocrisy.

Totally tops Ned telling Cersei or Theon deciding to stays in Winterfell with half a dozen men.

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While I agree that Ned telling Cersei was probably the single dumbest thing anything anyone has done in the series, I'm not sure it's out of character.

He should have seized her and the children and then, if we were terrified of Robert murdering them all in a rage, he could have immediately sentenced them to exile and shipped them away while Robert was still off hunting, oblivious. But instead, he stupidly trusted that he had Cersei cornered and she'd do exactly as he said.

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Where to begin??

In Random order.

-Robb marrying Jeyne

-Tyrion having Shae become Sansa's personal maid. I knew that was a time bomb waiting to happen!

-Ned telling Cersei that he knew the truth about her children and not arresting her for high treason.

-Catelyn freeing Ser Jaime

-Daenerys trusting Mirri

-Robb sending Theon to the Iron Islands

-Sansa telling Cersei her father's plan to send Arya and Sansa back to Winterfell

-Lady Lysa marrying Littlefinger

-Princess Arianne's ploy to crown Myrcella

-Catelyn not questioning Ser Jaime earlier! Why wasn't he questioned about Bran when he was captured in AGOT?

-Robb's choice to distance Grey Wind after he married Jeyne.

-Lord Beric giving his life for Catelyn Stark. Now we have Lady Stoneheart, Yikes!

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-Tyrion having Shae become Sansa's personal maid. I knew that was a time bomb waiting to happen!

-Catelyn freeing Ser Jaime

-Lady Lysa marrying Littlefinger

-Princess Arianne's ploy to crown Myrcella

-Robb's choice to distance Grey Wind after he married Jeyne.

These may have been mistakes in retrospect, but they were not stupid. You cannot blame the characters for gambling knowing the risks and/or not actually knowing key elements to divine the consequences of their choices (or being given fake facts)... Or maybe you can, but you cannot say that taking risks, being reckless, ignorant, desperate or misled is synonymous with being stupid.

-Catelyn not questioning Ser Jaime earlier! Why wasn't he questioned about Bran when he was captured in AGOT?

-Lord Beric giving his life for Catelyn Stark. Now we have Lady Stoneheart, Yikes!

These are not even mistakes, after "The King in The North", it doesn't matter much who pushed Bran, Catelyn is much more effective than Beric at this guerilla thing and Beric got the rest he longed for.

after all, stupidity is not being able to put two and two together while having all the elements to do so, it's not taking a stab in the dark about 2+x, or only knowing about one of the two 2, or being told that it's 2+3 when it's really 2+2.

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These may have been mistakes in retrospect, but they were not stupid. You cannot blame the characters for gambling knowing the risks and/or not actually knowing key elements to divine the consequences of their choices (or being given fake facts)... Or maybe you can, but you cannot say that taking risks, being reckless, ignorant, desperate or misled is synonymous with being stupid.

I would agree with you that some of the decision can not be considered 'stupid' simply because the characters do not know the future. But knowing the facts or not Catelyn freeing Jaime was a very stupid move on her part. She knew that he was a valuable hostage and probably worth more to their cause then any other hostage could have been. So yes, releasing him does qualify as a "stupid decision" as she was giving away her biggest bargaining chip.
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These may have been mistakes in retrospect, but they were not stupid. You cannot blame the characters for gambling knowing the risks and/or not actually knowing key elements to divine the consequences of their choices (or being given fake facts)... Or maybe you can, but you cannot say that taking risks, being reckless, ignorant, desperate or misled is synonymous with being stupid.

These are not even mistakes, after "The King in The North", it doesn't matter much who pushed Bran, Catelyn is much more effective than Beric at this guerilla thing and Beric got the rest he longed for.

I do agree on some of your points, mistakes were made. However, Princess Arianne plot with Myrcella was a stupid decision on her part. Even her father told her how helpless her cause was.

Back to Jaime not being questioned on Bran's fall. I feel that was a bad decision on the part of the Tullys and Starks not to question Jaime. Jaime tells Catelyn the truth about Joffery without blinking. Yes, I know Jaime had been in the Riverrun jail for many months when Catelyn confronts him about Bran and the fall. As Jaime reveals in ASOS, he is tired of lies and is happy the truth is out. Jaime even tells Cersei later that Casterly Rock would be Tommen's and that should be enough? Jaime doesn't care if his sons are on the throne. If Jaime were able to acknowledge all of his children, he could then marry Cersei......well, by his thinking.

If it was discovered that Joffery was not the trueborn son of Robert by the King of the Riverlands/the North, the Lannisters would not have had the support of 1)the faith 2)Dorne (there would not have been a Myrcella/Tristan engagement) 3)the commonfolks 4)the other ruling great houses. In General, no great houses could justify having an acknowledged ill-born child of incest sitting on the Iron Throne as their king. Even in AFFC, King Tommen is hanging on to his crown because he is Robert's "trueborn son".

Just my humble 2 cents on the subject.

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I thought Cat's arrest of Tyrion was pretty bold, rash, and utterly off the top of her head, with no such thought as to what she would be able to do with him once she brought him to court. oh sure, she might have pulled off the situation well with the juke-move to the vale, but even a well played stupid call, is well, still a stupid call.

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Back to Jaime not being questioned on Bran's fall. I feel that was a bad decision on the part of the Tullys and Starks not to question Jaime. Jaime tells Catelyn the truth about Joffery without blinking. Yes, I know Jaime had been in the Riverrun jail for many months when Catelyn confronts him about Bran and the fall. As Jaime reveals in ASOS, he is tired of lies and is happy the truth is out. Jaime even tells Cersei later that Casterly Rock would be Tommen's and that should be enough? Jaime doesn't care if his sons are on the throne. If Jaime were able to acknowledge all of his children, he could then marry Cersei......well, by his thinking.

If it was discovered that Joffery was not the trueborn son of Robert by the King of the Riverlands/the North, the Lannisters would not have had the support of 1)the faith 2)Dorne (there would not have been a Myrcella/Tristan engagement) 3)the commonfolks 4)the other ruling great houses. In General, no great houses could justify having an acknowledged ill-born child of incest sitting on the Iron Throne as their king. Even in AFFC, King Tommen is hanging on to his crown because he is Robert's "trueborn son".

Just my humble 2 cents on the subject.

Can we say for sure that Jaime was never interrogated before Catelyn went to visit him? I think it highly likely that he was. He wasn't very forthcoming with information so they put him in a cell (a nice one until he tried to escape). And even if he did reveal his incest with Cersei and that Joffrey, Myrcella, and Tommen were his children, would anyone that was loyal to the crown actually believe it? Not unless they marched Jaime around to all of the great lords and had him confess in front of their eyes, and then they'd probably assume he was saying it under duress.

Also, we now know that Doran Martell is basically just biding his time anyways. I don't think he would have openly revolted against the Lannisters unless the whole of Westeros was with him at that point. He's shown to be a very patient and plotting man, and he's so close to having a Targaryen with an army back in Westeros.

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I'd have to cast my vote for Ned's little conversation with Cersei. I still find it hard to believe he actually did that!

I'll also have to bring up Prince Doran's refusal to train his heir. Poor Dorne, poor Myrcella.

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Ryan_

Yes, I'm sure Ser Jaime was questioned but my point is, that I don't think he was questioned regarding Bran's fall at the time of his capture. Again, this is just my personal opinion on the subject.

Catelyn, Robb, Theon and Ser Rodrik were certain that a Lannister was involved in Bran's fall in AGOT. The Starks already questioned Tyrion sharply, why not Jaime? I don't have AGOT in front of me, so bear with me. After the catspaw attacks Catelyn in Bran's room and she sleeps for a few days, she has a talk with Robb, Theon, Luwin and Ser Rodrik. Catelyn tells them that she thinks the Lannisters were behind Jon Aryn's death and Bran's fall. She recalls that Jaime and the Queen were at the castle, not out hunting when Bran's fall happen. Catelyn correctly suspects Jaime is hiding something about Bran's fall.

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She knew that he was a valuable hostage and probably worth more to their cause then any other hostage could have been.
Huh, no, actually she knows he is not a valuable hostage, that he is actually worthless, the point is made explicitely in the books:

  1. There is nobody against which he could ever be exchanged. She asked.
  2. He would never be exchanged, with Robb's court political dynamics being what they were (the Kastarks are not the only ones who made it clear they wouldn't suffer him being alive, much less free)
  3. He is not a safeguard against anything nasty happening to Robb, Sansa or Arya. It's all too clear Arya is considered dead, yet is Jaime even threatened? It is perceivable for a character, and it is fact for readers: Tywin had abandoned Jaime, we got that in his exchange with Tyrion. He wasn't proof against anything.

So... what's the worth of an hostage who's considered already dead for those who should care, and that nobody can officially use in any other way than keeping him in a cell? Nothing.

Her gamble was really an elegant way to break the useless stalemate of Robb's court politics: She does what Robb cannot without alienating people, she takes the blame, and Robb reaps the benefits without losing anything. Of course Robb and Edmure screwed that plan over early, by respectively:


  1. Publicly forgiving her, even in a way condoning her act, in his eagerness to get forgiven by her for screwing Jeyne Westerling and the Freys. This was moronic, and lost him the Kastarks and sympathisers. It destroyed the raison d'ĂȘtre of the plan, which was to distance him from the splash.
  2. Publicly pursuing Jaime, making Jaime's escapade not a fait accompli exchange, but a mere escape, which allows Tyrion to just not give anything to the Starks: if it's not an exchange, then there's nothing to exchange against what runs to you.

And of course, in retrospect this was not a mistake at all, since it's the only move which had a positive, outlasting effect, in allowing Brienne to continue the search, in binding Jaime in another oath which he feels a bit beholden to, and in actually changing Jaime's opinion a bit on his goals in life, by making him meet Brienne. Robb would have been screwed either way, since Kastarks don't matter much in regard to:


  1. Losing the Freys -who are critical to his strategy anyway and end up betraying and killing him-
  2. Losing Winterfell, and by the same occasion dignity, standing, and the war, having to now contend with a pincer attack without a home base but with much less supportive bannermen on the "king in the north" stuff (what's a king with a kingdom invaded and his capital in flames?)
  3. The most grievous of all: having Stannis be crushed and a Tyrell/Lannister alliance forming. This means all the south against him, when he had trouble with just the Lannisters, when said Lannister were themselves held on multiple fronts.

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Ryan_

Yes, I'm sure Ser Jaime was questioned but my point is, that I don't think he was questioned regarding Bran's fall at the time of his capture. Again, this is just my personal opinion on the subject.

Catelyn, Robb, Theon and Ser Rodrik were certain that a Lannister was involved in Bran's fall in AGOT. The Starks already questioned Tyrion sharply, why not Jaime? I don't have AGOT in front of me, so bear with me. After the catspaw attacks Catelyn in Bran's room and she sleeps for a few days, she has a talk with Robb, Theon, Luwin and Ser Rodrik. Catelyn tells them that she thinks the Lannisters were behind Jon Aryn's death and Bran's fall. She recalls that Jaime and the Queen were at the castle, not out hunting when Bran's fall happen. Catelyn correctly suspects Jaime is hiding something about Bran's fall.

Again, maybe he was questioned about it initially and just didn't see fit to tell the truth. The only reason Catelyn suspected she might get more answers than anyone else is because Jaime had been rotting down in a cesspool for a few months and she was planning on setting him free.

Also, I think we've gotten off topic. Because I don't think either of us would argue that forgetting to question Jaime about Bran's fall was a "stupid decision". More of an oversight than anything.

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Jaime fathering three incest-born bastards on Cersei clearly is the most stupid thing anyone did in the series. It started all the later killing, and forced practical everybody to react to this situation (Tywin, Stannis, Ned, the Tyrells, Littlefinger, Varys, Lysa, and, of course, Cersei and Jaime themselves).

I'm still believing that this going to be the end for both of them. Poor Tommen, poor Myrcella. They were born dead.

Telling Cersei about his knowledge was not that stupid. It was quite nice, actually. It killed Robert, but it was not Cersei Lannister who ruined Ned Stark. It was Ned (and Sansa) who ruined Ned Stark, when Ned rejected Renly's honest offer of support, and put his trust in bribery and Littlefinger, after the latter bluntly explained how he could remain Regent and become the de facto King of Westeros. When I reread that passage, I really got the feeling that Ned betrays Littlefinger here, not the other way around, as it is so damned clear that Petyr Baelish would never take the risk of falling from power under King Stannis I.

The irony here is that Littlefinger's own lies backfire at him during this talk, as the whole Jon Arryn and Tyrion's dagger story are Ned's main reasons to refuse to even consider the Joffrey-Renly-option.

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