Flashbacks confirmed

[sting129]

Ned knew. I imagine seeing their bodies would tell him all he needed to, if noone just flat out told him.

Just because they will show it in season one doesn't mean they can't use it again with Jaime. Perhaps Jaime's role isn't even shown in Ned's nightmare.

I have a hard time believing Ned knew the true way they died.

Why would he hate Jaime so much if he knew that Jaime killed the king who burnt his father alive? and made his brother hang himself?

[Padraig]

Why would he hate Jaime so much if he knew that Jaime killed the king who burnt his father alive? and made his brother hang himself?

In Jaime's confrontation with Catelyn in aCoK, he asks her how did Ned's father and brother die. Catelyn says that Brandon was strangled while his father watched but she didn't know the details. Jaime muses that Ned must have wanted to spare her (she was to marry Brandon after all).

I think we can assume that Ned knew the details. Even if he didn't know from the state of the bodies, he is bound to have found out when in KL. How could he not want to know?

Ned hated Jaime because he broke one of the most sacred vows in the 7 Kingdoms. And he was arrogant about it. Ned probably spent little time thinking about how a KG would feel serving such a mad king. To Ned, duty was nearly everything. And Jaime had a duty that he forsook for no apparent reason except hubris.

As Scion said, if this scene is Ned's nightmare then the easy way out is not to show Jaime in it. As far as Ned would know, Jaime probably wasn't there.

[mummer]

What Padraig said... and also, just because Ned hates Aerys for those murders doesn't mean that he'd be grateful to Jaime for avenging them, even if Jaime weren't in the Kingsguard. Jaime clearly didn't do it to avenge them; he didn't care about the Starks, and when Ned found him he looked like he was just having fun killing kings and sitting on thrones. And by killing Aerys, he deprived Ned of being able to... not necessarily kill Aerys himself, Ned might not have been able to go so far, but at least confront him and see him brought low.

And: Jaime made the rebels look bad. Not that there's any really kosher way to revolt and depose a king, but Ned was probably not alone in thinking that they could just pack Aerys off to a nice padded playpen somewhere, and everyone would breathe a sigh of relief - the Targaryen loyalists wouldn't have been crazy enough to try to reinstate him, and the rebels wouldn't have had to rationalize such a huge crime. Robert may not have cared that much, but Ned probably resented the need for Robert to pardon a regicide, and the fact that everyone knew they owed much of their victory to treacherous behavior by Lannisters.

[Scion of Valyria]

And: Jaime made the rebels look bad. Not that there's any really kosher way to revolt and depose a king, but Ned was probably not alone in thinking that they could just pack Aerys off to a nice padded playpen somewhere, and everyone would breathe a sigh of relief - the Targaryen loyalists wouldn't have been crazy enough to try to reinstate him, and the rebels wouldn't have had to rationalize such a huge crime. Robert may not have cared that much, but Ned probably resented the need for Robert to pardon a regicide, and the fact that everyone knew they owed much of their victory to treacherous behavior by Lannisters.

While exiling Aerys might have been one way to do it, I don't think that's what any of the rebels were going for. Aerys had broken the feudal pact, slaughtering two members of a Great House, then demanding Ned and Robert be executed (I'm not sure about Robert,since I cant understand why Aerys wanted him dead, maybe it was just Ned).

It wasn't the regicide that was a big issue to anyone, it was who committed it. I'm certain the lords of the rebellion wanted Aerys dead. Its much neater, prevents him from returning with another army (a la James II)etc. Had Jaime not been a member of the Kingsguard, chances are he would have been a hero. But because he broke an oath (valued highly both in a secular and religious sense) he became scum.

Jaime mentions something like this in the third book, doesn't he? "If only I had taken off the damn cloak" or something to that effect.

Ned has disdain for Jaime because hes an oathbreaker, not a kingslayer. And also, as mummer points out, because of the Lannisters late role in the Rebellion, general untrustworthiness, etc.

[Padraig]

(I'm not sure about Robert,since I cant understand why Aerys wanted him dead, maybe it was just Ned).

Robert was engaged to Lyanna and friend to Ned. I'm sure he had a bit of a reputation as a fighter. Aerys couldn't trust him.

I do wonder what Ned would have done with a live Aerys though. :)

[howland_reed]

Not sure if it's been brought up...

But how will they deal with showing Robert Baratheon in the flashbacks?

Mark Addy might be a fitting portrayal of the current King Robert, but he doesn't look the part of the warrior he used to be.

[Padraig]

We don't know if Robert will appear in any flashbacks. :)

A popular choice is his fight with Rhaegar but he can be fully covered in armour for that scene. So they don't need Mark Addy.

[Scion of Valyria]

Robert was engaged to Lyanna and friend to Ned. I'm sure he had a bit of a reputation as a fighter. Aerys couldn't trust him.

I do wonder what Ned would have done with a live Aerys though. :)

I suppose thats fitting enough. At the time of his wardship in the Vale, had he become Lord of Storm's End? I know his parents died early, but it seems odd a high lord would be hangin' in the mountains as opposed to, ya know, governing his lands.

As to Ned's treatment of Aerys...well, I know what I would do to the man who roasted my father and strangled my brother, and its a hell of a lot more than slitting his throat. Sadly, Ned's an honorable man. Probably would have just nicked his head off.

But how will they deal with showing Robert Baratheon in the flashbacks?

Mark Addy might be a fitting portrayal of the current King Robert, but he doesn't look the part of the warrior he used to be.

Padraig

This is an easy one. I still insist Addy isn't a good choice, physically, even for the gluttonous drunk Robert. If they want to keep past-Robert the "maiden's fantasy" he was in the books, the actor would have to look completely different. Not to sound mean, but Addy doesn't seem like he ever possessed stunning looks.

Thus, a helm must always cover his head. As Padraig said, if he is in a flashback, it should only be on the Trident, clad in armor and driving a warhammer into Rhaegar's chest. And, if you think of it, that's the only time he's mentioned in the tale of Robert's Rebellion. Apart from killing Rhaegar, every other victory we know of is attributed to Tywin or Ned or Stannis. No real reason or need to show past Robert.

[Padraig]

I suppose thats fitting enough. At the time of his wardship in the Vale, had he become Lord of Storm's End? I know his parents died early, but it seems odd a high lord would be hangin' in the mountains as opposed to, ya know, governing his lands.

In the wiki it says that Robert was raised by Jon Arryn after his parents died. I might have thought he was sent there before his parents died. Interesting.

I've never been that concerned about Robert as a young man. We know that Addy didn't look like young Robert when he was young. But I do think Addy looks reasonably like Robert at the time of aGoT. So it'll do fine for me. :)