Werthead

The Factual History of A Song of Ice and Fire: including complete bibliography

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I'll ask my question again: can anyone point me where GRRM said there wont be new PoV in TWOW ?

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I'll ask my question again: can anyone point me where GRRM said there wont be new PoV in TWOW ?

At a couple of events between AFFC and ADWD. He said ADWD should have the last new POV characters introduced in the series. He also pointed out he's been wrong before, and his first plan was that the entire series would be told using the POVs from AGoT with no new ones introduced, so it's not written in stone.

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Awesome! I'm hoping he should have tWoW doneand published in the next couple years, barring any "meereen" knots, with the same sort of schedule for aDoS. Keep in mind the last two books have been built up since aGoT, not to mention that this series was originally trilogy, as mentioned by Werthead. Thus, it stands to reason that GRRM would have most of the concepts plotted out for the final installments.

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I only came to know about GRRM after watching the HBO series (a HUGE thanks to them). Before this, apart the from the popular choices, i.e., LOTR, HP and the Chronicles of Narnia, I wasn't much into the fantasy genre. Martin changed my entire perspective about it. His sheer ambition and grandeur bowled me over completely. I started reading the series in late September, 2011 and since then have been thoroughly obsessed with it. I can't recall spending an entire day since then, without thinking about the world of ASOIAF.

Thank you so much for this brilliant thread. I enjoyed reading it, a lot.

My own opinion is, that atleast another book is needed apart from the already announced 6th and 7th book. The battles for the Iron Throne and the war with the Others together seems, atleast to me, to be quite a lengthy story to be finished with only 2 books remaining.

I'm finding it increasingly difficult to wait for TWOW. But at the same time, I don't want Martin to rush to the ending. Westeros and Essos seem to exist in a parallel universe now, and its hard for me to imagine that the characters, in the end, will live like the cliched fairy-tale happily ever after.

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There are a lot of people who would disagree with you on the Harry Potter stuff being a good intro to F&SF, but that one I’ll let ago. The important thing to realize is there are three major sets of awards:

  1. The Hugo Awards, by the readers (fans)
  2. The Nebula Awards, by the writers
  3. The Locus Awards, by the critics

Actual details of who gets to vote for what aren’t quite as simple as I’ve made them out ot be, but that’s a reasonable first approximation and general overview. I’m friends with one professional genre critic, and to her the Hugos are just a big and silly popularity contest, one that often says little about the technical quality of the work. She really barely looks at them. In that circle, the Locus Awards are the most important and the Nebulas come in second, with the Hugos hardly worth a mention.

Here is how Martin has done in each of those three awards:

  • Hugo: 4 wins out of 16 nominations
  • Nebula: 2 wins out of 12 nominations
  • Locus: 11 wins out of 54 nominations

One reason there are so many more Locus nominations is both because there are more categories and because each category there gets more nominations. If you think of Locus as a sort of advisory feeder to Hugo and Nebula, this makes sense.

Here is the breakdown first by award and then by year of Martin’s nominations and wins. I think you will see that the works he lost to are more reasonable in the Nebulas and unimpeachable in the Locus Awards.


Hugo: 16 nominations, 4 wins

Best Novel

  • 1989 nomination for Dying of the Light, lost to Gateway by Frederik Pohl
  • 2001 nomination for A Storm of Swords, lost to Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire by J. K. Rowling
  • 2006 nomination for A Feast for Crows, lost to Spin by Robert Charles Wilson

Best Novella

  • 1975 win for A Song for Lya
  • 1976 nomination (with Lisa Tuttle) for The Storms of Windhaven, lost to Home is the Hangman by Roger Zelazny
  • 1981 nomination (with Lisa Tuttle) for One-Wing, lost to Lost Dorsai by Gordon R. Dickson
  • 1981 nomination for Nightflyers, lost to Lost Dorsai by Gordon R. Dickson
  • 1983 nomination for Unsound Variations, lost to Souls by Joanna Russ
  • 1997 win for Blood of the Dragon

Best Novelette

  • 1976 nomination for And Seven Times Kill a Man, lost to The Borderland of Sol by Larry Niven
  • 1980 win for Sandkings (this also won the Nebula)
  • 1982 nomination for Guardians, lost to Roger Zelazny’s Unicorn Variation
  • 1984 nomination for The Monkey Treatment, lost to Greg Bear’s Blood Music
  • 1986 nomination for Portraits of His Children, lost to Harlan Ellison’s Paladin of the Lost Hour

Best Short Story

  • 1974 nomination for “With Morning Comes Mistfall”, lost to Ursula K. Le Guin’s “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas”
  • 1980 win for “The Way of Cross and Dragon”

John W. Campbell Award for Best New Writer

  • 1973 nomination, lost to Jerry Pournell


Nebula: 12 nominations, 2 wins

Best Novel

  • 1997 nomination for A Game of Thrones, lost to The Moon and the Sun by Vonda McIntyre
  • 1999 nomination for A Clash of Kings, lost to Parable of the Talents by Octavia Butler
  • 2001 nomination for A Storm of Swords, lost to The Quantum Rose by Catherine Asaro

Best Novella

  • 1974 nomination for A Song for Lya, lost to Born with the Dead by Robert Silverberg
  • 1975 nomination (with Lisa Tuttle) for The Storms of Windhaven, lost to Home is the Hangman by Roger Zelazny
  • 1982 nomination for Unsound Variations, lost to Another Orphan by John Kessel
  • 1996 nomination for Blood of the Dragon, lost to Da Vinci Rising by Jack Dann

Best Novelette

  • 1977 nomination for The Stone City, lost to The Screwfly Solution by Racoona Sheldon (alias of Alice Sheldon)
  • 1979 win for The Sandkings (this also won the Hugo)
  • 1985 win for Portraits of Her Children

Best Short Story

  • 1973 nomination for “With Morning Comes Mistfall”, lost to “Love Is the Plan the Plan Is Death” by James Tiptree, Jr.
  • 1979 nomination for “The Way of Cross and Dragon”, lost to “giANTS” by Edward Bryant


Locus 54 total nominations (46 in fiction), 11 wins (all in fiction)

Here the number in parentheses indicates the final ballot ranking for that non-winning nomination. I’ve only shown whom he lost to for the novels.

Fantasy Novel

  • 1983 nomination (3) for Fevre Dream, lost to The Sword of the Lictor by Gene Wolfe
  • 1984 nomination (3) for The Armageddon Rag, lost to The Mists of Avalon by Marion Zimmer Bradley
  • 1997 win for A Game of Thrones
  • 1999 win for A Clash of Kings
  • 2001 win for A Storm of Swords
  • 2006 nomination (2) for A Feast for Crows, lost to Anansi Boys by Neil Gaiman

SF Novel

  • 1978 nomination (10) for Dying of the Light, lost to Gateway by Frederik Pohl
  • 1982 nomination (2) for Windhaven [by GRRM & Lisa Tuttle], lost to The Many-Colored Land by Julian May

Novellete

  • 1976 nomination (3) for And Seven Times Never Kill Man
  • 1976 nomination (6) for .for a single yesterday
  • 1977 nomination (8) for Meathouse Man
  • 1980 win for Sandkings
  • 1982 win for Guardians
  • 1984 win for The Monkey Treatment
  • 1986 nomination (3) for Portraits of His Children
  • 1986 nomination (6) for Under Siege
  • 1987 nomination (3) for The Glass Flower
  • 1988 nomination (18) for The Pear-Shaped Man

Novella

  • 1975 nomination (2) for A Song for Lya
  • 1976 win for The Storms of Windhaven [by Lisa Tuttle & GRRM]
  • 1981 win for Nightflyers
  • 1981 nomination (13) for One-Wing [by Lisa Tuttle & GRRM]
  • 1983 nomination (2) for Unsound Variations
  • 1986 nomination (4) for The Plague Star
  • 1986 nomination (7) for Loaves and Fishes
  • 1989 nomination (7) for The Skin Trade
  • 1997 nomination (2) for Blood of the Dragon
  • 1999 nomination (3) for The Hedge Knight
  • 2001 nomination (3) for Path of the Dragon
  • 2004 nomination (4) for The Sworn Sword
  • 2005 nomination (9) for Shadow Twin [by Gardner Dozois, GRRM & Daniel Abraham]

Short Fiction

  • 1973 nomination (7) for The Second Kind of Loneliness
  • 1974 nomination (8) for With Morning Comes Mistfall
  • 1978 nomination (tie for 19) Bitterblooms
  • 1978 nomination (7) for The Stone City

Short Story

  • 1977 nomination (8) for “This Tower of Ashes”
  • 1980 win for “The Way of Cross and Dragon”
  • 1982 nomination (3) for “The Needle Men”
  • 1982 nomination (5) for “Remembering Melody”

Anthology

  • 1989 nomination (6) for Wild Cards IV: Aces Abroad
  • 2010 nomination (3) for Songs of the Dying Earth: Stories in Honor of Jack Vance [GRRM & Gardner Dozois, eds.]
  • 1980 nomination (7) for New Voices II
  • 1981 nomination (10) for New Voices III
  • 1982 nomination (4) for New Voices 4
  • 1985 nomination (tie for 11) for The John W. Campbell Awards, Volume 5
  • 1987 nomination (2) for Wild Cards

Author Collection

  • 1977 win for A Song for Lya and Other Stories

Collection

  • 1986 nomination (4) for Nightflyers
  • 1987 nomination (5) for Tuf Voyaging
  • 1988 nomination (6) for Portraits of His Children
  • 2002 nomination (15) for Quartet
  • 2004 nomination (2) for GRRM: A RRetrospective

Single Author Collection

  • 1982 win for Sandkings

Editor

  • 1989 nomination (13)

Thank you so much for this! Not only I learnt about Martin's previous achievements but also of other books I need to get my hands on. Really, thank you so very much! ^_^

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In some interviews I've read that he, "hopes to keep it to 7." So I'm assuming he's trying hard, but if 8 books happens, then it happens.

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I'm going to remain optimistic no matter what, but I think that the hard part of the writing is out of the way. A Feast for Crows was a hard read, and I can't imagine how challenging it was to write. A Dance was a little complicated too. After ADWD I think things are really in place to speed up. There are battles going on everywhere, and less chugging through issues. He doesn't need to introduce new characters, (Arianne, Iron Island POV's), Mereen has reached a boiling point, drastic things are happening in the north, Bran finally made it to the 3-eyed bird, etc.

I'm going to hope that it'll be easy writing from here on out. I can only see Arya and Sansa being a little tricky to bring them back from obscurity.

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I'm going to remain optimistic no matter what, but I think that the hard part of the writing is out of the way. A Feast for Crows was a hard read, and I can't imagine how challenging it was to write. A Dance was a little complicated too. After ADWD I think things are really in place to speed up. There are battles going on everywhere, and less chugging through issues. He doesn't need to introduce new characters, (Arianne, Iron Island POV's), Mereen has reached a boiling point, drastic things are happening in the north, Bran finally made it to the 3-eyed bird, etc.

I'm going to hope that it'll be easy writing from here on out. I can only see Arya and Sansa being a little tricky to bring them back from obscurity.

if they will ever be brought back

i mean, sansa probably,

arya, don't think so... even if she is, she'll be a faceless girl, heh

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I'm going to remain optimistic no matter what, but I think that the hard part of the writing is out of the way. A Feast for Crows was a hard read, and I can't imagine how challenging it was to write. A Dance was a little complicated too. After ADWD I think things are really in place to speed up. There are battles going on everywhere, and less chugging through issues. He doesn't need to introduce new characters, (Arianne, Iron Island POV's), Mereen has reached a boiling point, drastic things are happening in the north, Bran finally made it to the 3-eyed bird, etc.

I'm going to hope that it'll be easy writing from here on out. I can only see Arya and Sansa being a little tricky to bring them back from obscurity.

Arya's possible return to Westeros would be a great happening,but i don't think GRRM will write this until the end of The Winds of Winter.

And Sansa is the main POV showing us what happens at the Vale,so i think she's not totally obscured in the story.

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I'm in no hurry to see the story conclude. If Mr. Martin would like to add an 8th book to the series that would be fine by me.

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Thank you so much for this! Not only I learnt about Martin's previous achievements but also of other books I need to get my hands on. Really, thank you so very much! ^_^

Don't get too excited about GRRM's other books. They're decent, but nothing special.

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Great thread, great information. A hearty THANKS! to those who compiled it.

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if they will ever be brought back

i mean, sansa probably,

arya, don't think so... even if she is, she'll be a faceless girl, heh

No, no, help, help! Arya's GOT to come back, and soon......i hope i hope.

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No, no, help, help! Arya's GOT to come back, and soon......i hope i hope.

i think justin massey is going to be her ticket back to westeros

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Has any interviewer actually asked GRRM how TWoW is coming along? With all the time he has to spend on interviews, tours and all kinds of different projects, I really don't see the book getting published anytime soon (soon being 2013/early 2014). Most people seem to think he'll write like Speedy Gonzalez with the Meereenese knot out of the way, but he's a really busy guy...

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I'd rather George R.R. Martin took his time and wrote a decent enjoyable novel than rush it out and have it fall short of the fans expectations

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Does there exist any Dunk & Egg discussion thread on these forums?

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