U.S. Politics 18

[TerraPrime]

Continue.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Continue.

Why? I already won.

[TrackerNeil]

Why? I already won.

Maybe in the "Cutest Version of Willem Dafoe Contest." ;)

[Swordfish]

Haha, this thread represents a new era of civility!

That's what Attilla the Hun said.

in other news, from the CBO letter being touted today by the 'ACA will reduce the deficitsOMG!!!' crowd:

As with all of CBO’s cost estimates, these estimates—both for the first 10 years and beyond—reflect an assumption that the provisions of current law would otherwise remain unchanged throughout the projection period and that the legislation being considered would be enacted and implemented in its current form. CBO’s responsibility to the Congress is to estimate the effects of proposals as written and not to forecast future legislation. However, current law now includes a number of policies that might be difficult to sustain over a long period of time. If those policies or other key aspects of the original legislation would have subsequently been modified or implemented incompletely, then the budgetary effects of repealing PPACA and the relevant provisions of the Reconciliation Act could be quite different—but CBO cannot forecast future changes in law or assume such changes in its estimates.

No one in their right mind thinks that that bolded part is true. Even the CBO doesn't think it's true, but they have to base their estimates on what is in front of them.

So let's not start sucking each other dicks about all this deficit reduction just yet, shall we?

[Shryke]

Ahh yes, more attacks on the CBO for doing what it's always done.

Strange how it only became a problem now....

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Maybe in the "Cutest Version of Willem Dafoe Contest." ;)

I'd still prefer the "ugly Matthew McConaughy" contest, though. Anyway...

The CBO estimates that...oh, wait, like many leading Republicans you don't accept the CBO estimate in regards to the ACA. In that case, we really don't have any common frame of reference to conduct the discussion.

Of course we do, since I used the CBO figure myself in my post. The $500B in additional spending contained in the ACA IS the CBO figure, so we do have that common frame of reference. I just don't see how repealing $500B in new spending amounts to an increase in spending. That, not the specific amounts, is where the disconnect lies.

RE: the filibuster. That tactic is, along with unanimous consent and secret holds, one of the primary tools used to paralyze the US Senate and ensure that little gets done. To my mind, Americans of any political persuasion should oppose slowing the work of the upper legislative house to a crawl.

Er, so does that mean you support what the House Republicans are saying, at least according to the article you linked? Anyway, I think if you check, I think you'll see that I also agreed previously, when the Democrats were in control, that the filibuster should be eliminated.

[The Progressive]

Ahh yes, more attacks on the CBO for doing what it's always done.

Strange how it only became a problem now....

Lol, round up the usual suspects.

Could you recall the same vitriol directed at CBO's reports during the expansion of Medicare Part D a couple years ago?

I don't either.

[The Progressive]

Repealing healthcare reform would kill 250,000 to 400,000 jobs annually over the next decade, according to Harvard economist David Cutler:

http://www.politico.com/static/PPM182_110107_cutler.html

Thanks for killing more job, Repubs.

[Shryke]

Lol, round up the usual suspects.

Could you recall the same vitriol directed at CBO's reports during the expansion of Medicare Part D a couple years ago?

I don't either.

There weren't even this many attempts to disparage the CBO while ACA was trying to be passed. It's only heated up in the last month or 2.

Repealing healthcare reform would kill 250,000 to 400,000 jobs annually over the next decade, according to Harvard economist David Cutler:

http://www.politico.com/static/PPM182_110107_cutler.html

Thanks for killing more job, Repubs.

Ironic given the repeal bills name, eh?

[awesome possum]

Thanks Republicans, for continuing to be yourselves and reminding the country why you suck.

According to a recent NBC/WSJ poll:

Obama’s approval is at 53% (where he hasn't been since before those summer town halls in ‘09, that's 18 months ago); confidence that the economy will improve in the next 12 months jumped eight points from last month; and the Dem Party’s fav/unfav went from a net negative (37%-41%) to a net positive (39%-35%).

Indeed, the bump in Obama’s approval was across the board -- independents moved from 35% approval to 46%; Democrats went from 76% to 86%, and Republicans went from 11% to 15%. Perhaps the most surprising result in the poll? Try 40% labeling the president as a political moderate, compared with 45% who see him as a liberal and 11% who view him as a conservative.

Meanwhile:

Only 25% say the Republicans in Congress will bring the right kind of change (versus 42% who said that about the Dems in Jan. 2007, and 37% who said that about the GOP in Jan. 1995). In addition, a majority (55%) believe congressional Republicans will be too inflexible in dealing with Obama, while an equal number (55%) say Obama will strike the right balance. And then there's this: The GOP's fav/unfav has gone from a net positive in December (38%-37%) to a net negative now (34%-40%).

This has been with Republicans "in charge" (because lets face it, you won the elections remember?) less than a month.

LOL

[The Progressive]

There weren't even this many attempts to disparage the CBO while ACA was trying to be passed. It's only heated up in the last month or 2.

Ironic given the repeal bills name, eh?

It's funny that during the debate leading to ACA, the teabaggers around here would cite CBO report when it convenient, and then dismiss it when it doesn't. :laugh:

I think the attacks heated up again recently after Boehner makes lying an art in a pathetic attempt to dismiss CBO finding as "opinions".

[TerraPrime]

Repealing healthcare reform would kill 250,000 to 400,000 jobs annually over the next decade, according to Harvard economist David Cutler:

http://www.politico.com/static/PPM182_110107_cutler.html

Thanks for killing more job, Repubs.

It's not done yet.

Right?

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

There weren't even this many attempts to disparage the CBO while ACA was trying to be passed. It's only heated up in the last month or 2.

Ironic given the repeal bills name, eh?

Shryke, the truth is that there are plenty of studies going both ways on this. And frankly, none of us here have the background or expertise to get into the guts of any of them completely and analyze them at a truly expert level.

http://www.atr.org/userfiles/BHI%20Health%20Care%20Reform%20as%20Job%20Killer(7).pdf

[The Progressive]

It's not done yet.

Right?

Thankfully we could somewhat offset these job losses by extending current federal subsidies for student loans at for-profit institutions per Flow's recommendation earlier. :laugh:

[Shryke]

It's not done yet.

Right?

It's not done nor will it be done.

It passed the House, but it's just gonna sit stalled in the Senate (where the GOP is currently complaining about the unfairness or the exact tactics they were using less then a month ago).

And even if by some miracle it does pass the Senate, Obama will veto it.

The Repeal bill, if it's name didn't clue you in, is pure political theatre that will accomplish nothing. It's grandstanding so the GOP can claim they tried to kill "Obamacare" like they promised without actually having to own up to killing all the parts of it their constituents like.

[Swordfish]

Arnold Kling on Corporations vs Government.....

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

The Repeal bill, if it's name didn't clue you in, is pure political theatre that will accomplish nothing. It's grandstanding so the GOP can claim they tried to kill "Obamacare" like they promised without actually having to own up to killing all the parts of it their constituents like.

I think there's a lot of truth in that. And if that is the only vote the GOP holds on ObamaCare, they deserve to be skewered on it.

I think "the plan" is to draft an alternative that preserves popular measures like addressing the pre-existing condition exclusion, but then wipes out the entitlement angle where all the costs are. Probably taking about the exchanges at the same time.

But if the GOP doesn't offer an alternative than addresses those pre-existings, etc., then the issue will completely fizzle for them.

[Shryke]

I think there's a lot of truth in that. And if that is the only vote the GOP holds on ObamaCare, they deserve to be skewered on it.

I think "the plan" is to draft an alternative that preserves popular measures like addressing the pre-existing condition exclusion, but then wipes out the entitlement angle where all the costs are. Probably taking about the exchanges at the same time.

But if the GOP doesn't offer an alternative than addresses those pre-existings, etc., then the issue will completely fizzle for them.

They haven't even talked about their alternative beyond "Everything you love will be in it and everything else won't!".

ie - they have no plan at all

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

They haven't even talked about their alternative beyond "Everything you love will be in it and everything else won't!".

ie - they have no plan at all

No, actually, they have. There are various versions floating around, but it takes time to get them in the right form and get agreement on them. Personally, and I argue this with some conservatives, I think they should have delayed the repeal vote until they were ready to do it all at once.

[Swordfish]

No, actually, they have. There are various versions floating around, but it takes time to get them in the right form and get agreement on them. Personally, and I argue this with some conservatives, I think they should have delayed the repeal vote until they were ready to do it all at once.

The real question is why aren't they ready?

because i don't know if you noticed this, but this whole healthcare debate has been around for a little while.

I know it hasn't gotten a lot of press and stuff, but...

;)