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How do you want Cersei to die?


crispy

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I recall that quite differently (but, as mentioned before, I'm probably wrong). First, it's not that Daenerys is described that way in the book, which, in my opinion, must be done from a PoV character. Second, Euron has never seen Daenerys. Third, he didn't state a fact but rather something like "people say ..." and he adds something to the effect of: I don't care at all how she looks like.

The fact that she is known to be the most beautiful woman in the world, not only by Euron but also by Quentyn Martell, when both of them never saw her before shows that it is a very common tale among sailors, which means she must be very beautiful to begin with (more so than Sansa who as far as we know wasn't rumored to be the most beautiful woman in Westeros).

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The fact that she is known to be the most beautiful woman in the world, not only by Euron but also by Quentyn Martell, when both of them never saw her before shows that it is a very common tale among sailors, which means she must be very beautiful to begin with (more so than Sansa who as far as we know wasn't rumored to be the most beautiful woman in Westeros).

Okay, I agree with you that there is sailor's yarn towards Daenerys' exceptional beauty. And we know that she actually _is_ considered beautiful. But, that doesn't help to compare her to, say, Sansa. Daenerys is a mythical figure, 99.99% of all the people talking about her beauty never saw her, but they know some fairy stories about her. Nobody knows Sansa.

"Queens get so much fairer as you travel away from court." (Okay, that is French renaissance, but close enough.)

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I would like to see Cersei commit suicide rather than face a humiliating trial and public execution. I think it fits her character.

Someone above said that Petyr had Joff killed to sow chaos. Others stated that Petyr tried to keep things impersonal as opposed to Cersei's style. The way I interpret it is that Petyr killed Joff to sow enough chaos to get Sansa out of the city and under his thumb. I think this is all deeply personal to Littlefinger, at least now that he has Sansa. It is also creepy as hell. Sansa will probably be the one to end up killing him.

I think Petyr killed Joff, because he thought Joff might do something to Sansa that would disrupt his plans for her. We know that Joff already threatened to rape Sansa, saying that he would take her whenever he wanted when he was the "full" king. So, Petyr killing Joff, may have had several aims. 1. Sow some chaos to get Sansa out of KL. 2. Get rid of Joff, in case she didn't leave KL. 3. Give Cersei even more power and make her more paranoid, knowing that she would botch it, and make herself more unpopular. (The old give her more rope with which to hang herself, idea.)

GH

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Okay, I agree with you that there is sailor's yarn towards Daenerys' exceptional beauty. And we know that she actually _is_ considered beautiful. But, that doesn't help to compare her to, say, Sansa. Daenerys is a mythical figure, 99.99% of all the people talking about her beauty never saw her, but they know some fairy stories about her. Nobody knows Sansa.

"Queens get so much fairer as you travel away from court." (Okay, that is French renaissance, but close enough.)

Well Sansa is promised to Joffrey for quite a while, which makes her one of the most important lady at court. But even if you consider than back then she was still a child , a while later (in ASOS) she mention grown men looking a her in a "sexual" way, but it is never said that her beauty becomes the gossip of all the red keep. When Dany's beauty becomes the gossip of the whole world. Though to be honest i would prefer Sansa to be the younger queen.

Your quote is interesting but do you have the original version or the name of the guy who said it?

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Cersei never compared herself to Sansa. She compared herself to Margaery. She said that Margaery is not as pretty as she is (something that one of the guys she slept with agreed with, but that many in the court disagreed).

As for Daenerys, what makes her "the most beautiful woman in the world" are her dragons. She is pretty? Yes. But her dragons made her even prettier.

I think that Brienne herself would become "sexy" (in the eyes of most ambitious guys) if she got some dragons and royal blood.

And the thing with Daenerys is, she didn't take away Joffrey (as far as I know). And he is one of the things that Cersei cares about the most.

While it is possible that both Sansa and Margaery can claim the kill.

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It is difficult to get a proper sense of who is the 'most beautiful woman in Westeros' because a lot of it is just propaganda. Cersei and Dany are considered to be unbelievably beautiful by the masses because that is what the rumors say; few that declare so have actually seen them in person. Hell, few among the nobles even acknowledge that Daenarys is alive, so the commoners that say such great things about her have very little if anything to base them on.

Also it is important to note that any opinion or argument that Cersei brings to the table should be instantly be either questioned or dismissed as false because she is more than a little insane. She is completely incapable of thinking objectively.

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First, re Cersei and Danerys beauty: I've always assumed these two were the most beautiful women presented in the series. This is for several reasons.

Proof of Cersei's good looks: First, she is constantly (each and every time we see her) described as beautiful. However, what makes this so notable in Cersei's case is that fact that she is frequently described as beautiful by people who dispise her. For instance, while complaining about Cersei to Ned, Robert notes she is "lovely to look upon," though he clearly loathes her. Tyrion loathes and resents Cersei just as much as Robert, but thinks that she is beautiful on several occasions. And Ned Stark dislikes Cersei from the beginning, but even he cannot help but think how beautiful she is during their meeting in the kingswood. Some other Cersei haters who admit she is gorgeous: Oberyn Martell, Jon Snow, and Stannis Baratheon.

Danerys: Well, I've actually just always assumed she was gorgeous, since she's a Targ and the Targ's are described as "inhumanly beautiful."

However, I think near the end of the series (probably starting in A Dance With Dragons) Cersei is going to lose her looks. (Remember in A Feast for Crows when Littlefinger notes, "Of all the things Cersei has, only her beauty is her own. And that will not last forever-- it will soon be gone. I will truly pity her when that happens.") I imagine that Cersei will gain weight, and succumb to the ravages of aging brought on prematurely by extreme stress and her newly self indulgent lifestyle (in AFFC, it's mentioned that Cersei's taken to drinking and feasting, like good old King Bob used to.) Furthermore, there is also the tight dresses at the end of AFFC. I think that that may be a sign that she is gaining a bit of weight already.

So if Cersei does get fat and lose her looks, it will not be so hard for Danerys to be "the more beautiful queen" of the prophecy.

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I just want her to be chopped quick and nicly and have it over with. I do not at all dislike her to the point of wishing to cause her physical or mental torture beyond a simple execution.

Or that she is reglated to the Silent Sisters and allowed to live out the rest of her life in contemplation of spiritual matters.

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Man, that was almost perfect. The best part would be if the High Septon removes his mask and it turns out he was Ned this entire time. And then "Jaime" takes off his mask and he turns out to be Syrio Forel! And then it's revealed that Eddard and Syrio set up the entire series to defeat Cersei and teach Arya a lesson about being more ladylike as her mother would like. And then Eddard laughs, and then Syrio laughs, then Arya laughs, and every body lived happily ever after.

I mean, I'd probably throw the book into the trash and never read anything by this author again, but it would be funny as Hell.

Oh, perfect. But you forgot the ending where Arya kneels by the corpse of Cersei, then pulls off another mask to discover that she has killed not the queen... but yet another faceless man!

Then Cersei herself comes out from offstage, smiling cheerfully and leading Nymeria from a leash, and tells Arya that she was in on it all too. Her entire "evil woman" act, beginning with the direwolves and preceding on through the next three books, has all been an act. She wanted to teach Arya yet another Very Special Lesson that sometimes, it is possible to be too ladylike.

Then Catelyn/ Lady Stoneheart enters. She tells Arya that she was also in on it, because she had felt the need to teach Arya the fine line between vengence and justice. And also, to kill all those Freys, because they really did suck big time.

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I have a couple of issues with Cersei

1. she birthed Joffrey and nurtured him into a monster

2. she threw her best friend down a well for no reason whatsoever

3. she abuses Tyrion when he's a baby simply because she can

4. she believes she's the second coming of Christ (well, Tywin, but whatever)

Joff and Tywin are dead already, so she's the only one I have left to root for. I like Littlefinger.

I do really enjoy reading her chapters though.

Okay, but you like Littlefinger who:

1. Uses sex to get ahead (screws Lysa when he doesn't give 2 craps about her.) Yet few people say he's "a whore" and complain that he lacks honor, "will screw his way to the top" as they do with Cersei.

2. He had Ser Dontos killed when he really didn't have to.

3. Screwed over Ned.

4. Clearly believes he's the second coming of Christ (or simply "a great man," as he tells Sansa.)

5. Lysa helps promote him, loves him for years, and marries him; in return he murders her. Though he did have his reasons, he did it in the cruelest possible way.

6. Makes 13 year old Sansa believe SHE was responsible for Lysa's murder

7. Attempts to seduce Sansa when she is his ward and totally in his power.

8. Starts hitting on Sansa when she is 11 years old.

Hmmm... interesting.

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Yes Cersei and Littlefinger are much the same, and would make quite a couple.. Perhaps the fact that Cersei's schemes has led to one disaster after another makes her more easy to dislike? Littlefinger is just as horroundeus but atleast he is succesful in his schemes. Nonetheless I agree that LF is no more sympathetic than Cersei, and probably gets of the hook to easily..

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  • 4 years later...

While Cersei certainly does "deserve" to to die, I am not looking forward a death where readers are encouraged to revel in sadistic vengeance against her.  I'd rather see a repentant and semi-redeemed Cersei face her doom with some dignity, and with her strangler cast int he role of a monster, and with the readers encouraged to identify with Cersei and feel the horror of her situation.;  

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While Cersei certainly does "deserve" to to die, I am not looking forward a death where readers are encouraged to revel in sadistic vengeance against her.  I'd rather see a repentant and semi-redeemed Cersei face her doom with some dignity, and with her strangler cast int he role of a monster, and with the readers encouraged to identify with Cersei and feel the horror of her situation.;  

While I do agree with you on the fact with the vengeance, I believe that this is what GRRM intended. She is a character that everybody hates, and seeing her dying is the thing that book readers and watchers have been anticipating for years.

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The best way for Cersei to die for me, would be Jaime to kill her, then kill himself. Jaime has had tremendous growth and is finished with Cersei's evil ways, so to speak. Cersei will lose her children, go crazy and try to destroy King's Landing just like Aerys wanted to. Cersei's eyes are described akin to wildfyre, and she loves watching stuff burn. Jaime will learn of this, and history will repeat itself. He'll kill Qyburn, then choke the life from Cersei, then fall on his own sword, leaving Brienne to weep over his body just like she did with Renly.

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The best way for Cersei to die for me, would be Jaime to kill her, then kill himself. Jaime has had tremendous growth and is finished with Cersei's evil ways, so to speak. Cersei will lose her children, go crazy and try to destroy King's Landing just like Aerys wanted to. Cersei's eyes are described akin to wildfyre, and she loves watching stuff burn. Jaime will learn of this, and history will repeat itself. He'll kill Qyburn, then choke the life from Cersei, then fall on his own sword, leaving Brienne to weep over his body just like she did with Renly.

This is so sad, I can actually see this happening.

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