sertravisredbeard Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 I could see Littlefinger waiting to see if Stannis causes any real power realignment in the North, then making it known that he'd be open to negotiations for an alliance. He'd request an envoy to visit him in the Vale to initiate talks, then have them walk into the Great Hall of whichever castle he's occupying at the time (is it the Bloody Gate now? I forget). Then, when whoever Stannis sends walk in they see the Hall covered in Baratheon tapestries. It might not be super-effective, but it would certainly send a message. Littlefinger's probably just covering all his bases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Men in their cups say... Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 There's a certain book in KL, which has already been mentioned in this thread, that LF knows about and could perhaps be interested in obtaining..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booknerd2 Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 The other tapestry thread is going too so I posted other stuff on there. Knowing Stannis and how proud he is and how he feels about background, who he is, being a Baratheon, etc., I could also see LF seeing it as only a positive plus to present him with it if he needs to. And LF knows that Stannis would value that. He is so focused on the Vale in the story, but I never forget that he is slick, and there is no way he is so concerned with the Vale that he is not keeping all eyes elsewhere, on other families, and also making sure that he is keeping tabs and weighing options with others too. I am sure he is watching how things play out with others and he will have a Plan B, C, D...He already has a Stark in his possession, he has an Arryn...but he has to watch what is going on with the Lannisters, Stannis, Tyrells, too.I have a crackpot theory...but I have to form how I want to word it and then I will post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booknerd2 Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Oh, and I can conjure up a mental picture of the devious LF smuggling out THAT book wrapped in a tapestry of a Baratheon family tree (if Robert has one like that) that backs it up further and rolled a la Cleopatra. And wearing a smirk of triumph as it arrives.If that happened and he pulled if off, I would die laughing. That would be ingenius. And too damned funny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Men in their cups say... Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 I have a crackpot theory...but I have to form how I want to word it and then I will post.well........? Haha the suspense is killing me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booknerd2 Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Total crackpot...but since it popped up in my head, I figure I would just roll with it.I thought of how Cersei hated the tapestries and took them down. But really, her children's royal claim is only as strong as her and her children's ties to Robert. You would think she would hold on to Baratheon tapestries. They are valuable and time-consuming to make. Her finances are crap right now, but even with the rumors going around about her children, you would think she would want the tapestries for their symbolic value to her son's claim to the throne.Apparently not. She doesn't want them. She wants them out of there. She had them taken down and they are on route to LF of all people.I thought of the Bayeaux tapestry. Images and writing embroidered on it. Specific people in it. Armies, battles, Harold, William the Conqueror, Edward the Confessor. Really, specific names, faces, places, dates, events, etc...a chronology of William coming from Normandy, defeating other claims, and becoming William I of England.Robert had no qualms about sticking things to Cersei.One of his ships was called Lady Lyanna, right? She must have loved standing there when it was christened...lol! Luckily, Robert was not hit by her with the bottle that we know of....LOL!I thought of the Jon Snow reveal and how it should unfold for maximum story-telling. That it would not be cool if he finds out and then is victorious. It should be a long hard road. I just have a feeling that someone or some people will find out this info before him or soon after. Ok, we know Howland most likely knows and a Dayne or too, and that Wylla nurse, but for more tension, it should be people that are more obstacles or will process that info and try to twist it or use if for their own gain or upperhand. Especially because the Starks are split up and it would be unfortunate. if other people get this info before they do. There is no way Jon will find out and then Bran, Sansa, Arya, Rickon, all find out, he saves them and they live happily ever after. It is not going to be easy or happen like that. That is dangerous news and it is not so much Jon or them finding out, I think the trouble in the books is what others with agendas will do when THEY find out.Somehow I always think that for every thing Varys knows, LF know stuff too,and the pendulum can swing for awhile. He may not have his "little bird" spies, but he must have his own network, and not just within his brothels. If Varys is backing Aegon, it would be mind-blowing if LF finds out that Jon Snow is Lyanna's son and a Targ. He already has Sansa in his hands. She could be a bargaining chip, for a relative that is a claimant, and wants his now cousin back. LF is just a type of character that he has to reach some point that he has to have an edge, some leverage, or some piece of info no one has.His character type just calls out for it. If he has nothing more in the way of info or plans any better than any other person would have, than what is going to set him apart? Because I think he will rise or succeed a bit further before his eventuall fall at the end.There is no way I believe that LF did not follow any news of Ned and Cat over the years. She is/was his obsession and I am sure he was keeping tabs on Ned and Cat. Maybe even more closely than others would to events surrounding them.Crackpot crackpottery, but LF would top Varys with this info, top the Lannisters, and many others, and he has a Stark in his grip. And the Vale is his currently, and Arryn is still his stepson.Crackpot and holes, but I would die if it played out this way. He gets the proof that Tommen and Myrcella and the departed Joff were not Roberts, and he has Sansa Stark and finds out her relative Jon Snow is a Targ and is an heir. Varys and Illyrio are left stunned. Not that LF would triumph in the end, but he would think he was on top for a time.Robert fought that war for Lyanna. Wouldn's she be depicted in the tapestry artwork if there is artwork depicting his legacy, battles, accomplishments, his journey to the crown?But they could be just hunting scenes, and nothing to do with his lineage or a history of his fight for the throne.Just my wishful thinking...and more crackpottery... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Men in their cups say... Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Haha I am slightly in my cups, but was able to follow that for the most part...But I think that LF, rather than 'blocking' the info would actually rather try and reach out to Jon Starkgaryen, maybe even using Sansa since he clearly trusts her with valuable info and seems to think that she appreciates him "saving" her, both from kingslanding and Lysa. That seems way more like the powergrabber we know LF to be. He does seem to like collecting nobles, and he clearly intends for the Starks to be restored to Winterfell and the North. The more I analyize LF's motives and endgame, he actually seems to be shaping up to somewhat of a hero in the story..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danelle Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 If we assume the tapestries are most likely the Baratheon hunting ones mentioned back in AGoT (or was it ACoK?) there is another possiblity to consider: that Littlefinger plans to raise banners for a Baratheon claimant.Afterall we are forgetting he does have a potential candidate in his power as Lord Protector of the Vale. All he need do is find some septon who will attest to a drunken Robert marrying her mother in secret years ago (before he wed Cersai) which should be rather easier with the Lannisters' hold on power slipping and those alive at the time and respected enough to contridict his story (Eddard, Jon Arryn) dead. Then with the tapestries flying in the wind present Queen Mya Baratheon*, first of her name and launch 'Robert's Rebellion II'...*Incidently to those who note Mya Stone's total unsuitability to be a ruling Queen, I agree but then Littlefinger probably doesn't want anything other than a puppet ruler to rule through or better one he can marry to become King. She looks like Robert, they can probably dress her to more look the part, she can most likely can sit on a horse well enough and mayhaps he can have 'Alayne' school Mya on her courtesies.Queen Mya I Baratheon: how cracked is my pot? :rolleyes:Well, it is a theory but the only problem that I have is that he will use the same excuse with Alayne. So far the plan is to protect Sansa using the identity of Alayne and then, when the time is right, to reveal to the world that she is Sansa Stark.While most people argue that Sansa will be LF's downfall, I think that his own confidence will eventually destroy him. Bastards are not loved in Westeros. Besides, Robert never married Mya's mother. Cersei knows about her existence and when Robert suggested to bring Mya to KL, she threaten to kill her. Even if the lords of Vale agree to have one of their own as a claimant, there is still Edrik Storm, Robert's only recognised bastard. LF's plan has so many holes, besides Sansa is still a Lannister and wanted for Joffrey's murder. Remember how eager the Tyrells were to put the blame entirely on Sansa? Not to mention that Tyrion is still alive. There is a theory that LF will bring Tysha, or a woman pretending to be her and claim that Tyrion was already married when he married Sansa.As for the tapestries, it could either be something random, him trying to look more like a highborn lord or an another of his schemes.I do think that he will try to get involved with the Iron Throne and Robert's tapestries could be connected to that but without the help and support of Lysa and the Lannisters, I doubt he will make it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Men in their cups say... Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 I do think that he will try to get involved with the Iron Throne and Robert's tapestries could be connected to that but without the help and support of Lysa and the Lannisters, I doubt he will make it.Um, Lysa flew....And the point of LF getting his hands on the book (and also maybe the tapestries) would be to put the last nail in the Lannister Power Coffin...I wouldn't be surprised if the tapestries turned out to just not be significant. Grrm is going to be doing some serious editing to try and stay within seven books... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danelle Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Um, Lysa flew....And the point of LF getting his hands on the book (and also maybe the tapestries) would be to put the last nail in the Lannister Power Coffin...I wouldn't be surprised if the tapestries turned out to just not be significant. Grrm is going to be doing some serious editing to try and stay within seven books...I think that LF became powerful partly because of his schemes and partly because he had the help of Lysa and the Lannisters. He killed Lysa and did his best to destroy the Lannisters. I doubt that he will make it on his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Men in their cups say... Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Everything LF does is "on his own"Yeah the fact that Lysa loved him helped a lot, true. He played her, the same way he plays the Lannisters. LF doesn't have the mass appeal of Robert Baratheon say, or The Ned in the north, but he certainly finds a way to endear himself to those who really matter..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalan Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Are there any battles/hunts in the past that anyone can think of that reveal something important in the next few books (obviously excluding any that would not be put on the tapestries, IE ToJ)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booknerd2 Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Had an amusing thought:I just thought of an unfortunate, but probably crackpot, scenario where if poor Robert had tapestries commissioned with the information he was TOLD happened, during the war he started. So far, we've only heard of the hunting tapestrie. We don't know what they look like or what are on them exactly, but royals had all types commissioned.Imagine if it turned out his tapestries were wrong, which most likely it is, because we don;t know what happened exactly. So far Robert doesn't know that Ned took his nephew away from the TOJ, for example. Well, I am a Snow is R&L's child believer.I cringed imagining Robert paid for...A tapestry scene of his beautiful damsel Lyanna perhaps being taken by Rhaegar by force, but it could turn out that she wasn't....A tapestry scene of Lyanna's demise as told to Robert by Ned....but it didn't exactly go down like that....I believe Robert would have the balls to put Lyanna in any tapestry scenes, if they are that kind, recording events. Robert would most likely reason that she was his fiancee, he fought the war over her, and to hell with Cersei. One of his ships was named Lady Lyanna and he didn't seem to care if Cersei fumed or not about it. The funny part is, that Tywin probably loaned him the money to pay for the ship. LOL!A tapestry scene depicting his children, or at least his heir to the throne, Joffrey, but he is not his...Poor Robert, if he has tapestries like that, probably half of it is wrong...LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Do sou people remember when he went to talk to Cate. He had the Bones of Ned as a gift.He is going to parley with Stannis with a Gift too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Men in their cups say... Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Total crackpot...but since it popped up in my head, I figure I would just roll with it.I thought of how Cersei hated the tapestries and took them down. But really, her children's royal claim is only as strong as her and her children's ties to Robert. You would think she would hold on to Baratheon tapestries. They are valuable and time-consuming to make. Her finances are crap right now, but even with the rumors going around about her children, you would think she would want the tapestries for their symbolic value to her son's claim to the throne.Apparently not. She doesn't want them. She wants them out of there. She had them taken down and they are on route to LF of all people.I thought of the Bayeaux tapestry. Images and writing embroidered on it. Specific people in it. Armies, battles, Harold, William the Conqueror, Edward the Confessor. Really, specific names, faces, places, dates, events, etc...a chronology of William coming from Normandy, defeating other claims, and becoming William I of England.Robert had no qualms about sticking things to Cersei.One of his ships was called Lady Lyanna, right? She must have loved standing there when it was christened...lol! Luckily, Robert was not hit by her with the bottle that we know of....LOL!I thought of the Jon Snow reveal and how it should unfold for maximum story-telling. That it would not be cool if he finds out and then is victorious. It should be a long hard road. I just have a feeling that someone or some people will find out this info before him or soon after. Ok, we know Howland most likely knows and a Dayne or too, and that Wylla nurse, but for more tension, it should be people that are more obstacles or will process that info and try to twist it or use if for their own gain or upperhand. Especially because the Starks are split up and it would be unfortunate. if other people get this info before they do. There is no way Jon will find out and then Bran, Sansa, Arya, Rickon, all find out, he saves them and they live happily ever after. It is not going to be easy or happen like that. That is dangerous news and it is not so much Jon or them finding out, I think the trouble in the books is what others with agendas will do when THEY find out.Somehow I always think that for every thing Varys knows, LF know stuff too,and the pendulum can swing for awhile. He may not have his "little bird" spies, but he must have his own network, and not just within his brothels. If Varys is backing Aegon, it would be mind-blowing if LF finds out that Jon Snow is Lyanna's son and a Targ. He already has Sansa in his hands. She could be a bargaining chip, for a relative that is a claimant, and wants his now cousin back. LF is just a type of character that he has to reach some point that he has to have an edge, some leverage, or some piece of info no one has.His character type just calls out for it. If he has nothing more in the way of info or plans any better than any other person would have, than what is going to set him apart? Because I think he will rise or succeed a bit further before his eventuall fall at the end.There is no way I believe that LF did not follow any news of Ned and Cat over the years. She is/was his obsession and I am sure he was keeping tabs on Ned and Cat. Maybe even more closely than others would to events surrounding them.Crackpot crackpottery, but LF would top Varys with this info, top the Lannisters, and many others, and he has a Stark in his grip. And the Vale is his currently, and Arryn is still his stepson.Crackpot and holes, but I would die if it played out this way. He gets the proof that Tommen and Myrcella and the departed Joff were not Roberts, and he has Sansa Stark and finds out her relative Jon Snow is a Targ and is an heir. Varys and Illyrio are left stunned. Not that LF would triumph in the end, but he would think he was on top for a time.Robert fought that war for Lyanna. Wouldn's she be depicted in the tapestry artwork if there is artwork depicting his legacy, battles, accomplishments, his journey to the crown?But they could be just hunting scenes, and nothing to do with his lineage or a history of his fight for the throne.Just my wishful thinking...and more crackpottery...A scene of Lyanna and Rhaegar could be pretty cool. LF could show it to Dany while explaining what the fridge is going on up north with her nephizzle Jsnowgaryen...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lummel Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Do sou people remember when he went to talk to Cate.He had the Bones of Ned as a gift.He is going to parley with Stannis with a Gift too.I remember that Tyrion Lannister sent Robb The Ned's bones as a gesture of good faith in Tyrion VI ACOK. It is not a bad suggestion that Lord Baelish might want the tapestries as a means of opening up talks but we know that he didn't want Stannis to become king in AGOT. One reason he betrayed The Ned was to stop Stannis from becoming king. So why the change of heart of now? What could he get from Stannis that he can't get from Cersei, apart from decapitation?I like the Bayeux tapestry idea. Perhaps if the tapestries showed the descent of the Baratheon line showing every Baratheon with coal black hair no matter who their mother was then they might be useful in demonstrating that Tommen and Myrcella are illegitimate. In which case they could be useful to Daenerys or even Aegon - if Petyr knows about Aegon at the end of AFFC. But that's a totally speculative notion since we don't know enough about these tapestries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longspear Ryk Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 I always thought that littlefinger was just interior decorating and thought the tapestries would look nice...I actually laugh everytime i read that part thinkig bout littlefinger caring more about being stylish because everything is going to plan.. Just shrugs verything else off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Africanus Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 I remember that Tyrion Lannister sent Robb The Ned's bones as a gesture of good faith in Tyrion VI ACOK.It is not a bad suggestion that Lord Baelish might want the tapestries as a means of opening up talks but we know that he didn't want Stannis to become king in AGOT. One reason he betrayed The Ned was to stop Stannis from becoming king. So why the change of heart of now? What could he get from Stannis that he can't get from Cersei, apart from decapitation?I like the Bayeux tapestry idea. Perhaps if the tapestries showed the descent of the Baratheon line showing every Baratheon with coal black hair no matter who their mother was then they might be useful in demonstrating that Tommen and Myrcella are illegitimate. In which case they could be useful to Daenerys or even Aegon - if Petyr knows about Aegon at the end of AFFC. But that's a totally speculative notion since we don't know enough about these tapestries.Yeah and Tyrion sent assassins along with those bones too to spring out Jamie from jail. Such good faith...I do agree that it is hard to believe LF would suddenly warm up to Stan. But then again LF is an opportunist with no qualms or morals. But still, can't really see it.If anything he's preparing for a Lannister downfall, working with the Tyrells to that end. It is pretty difficult to imagine him being aware of Aegon or following Dany's Idiot Abroad adventures in Mereen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lummel Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 According to the Global timeline Daenerys captures Meereen at the end of October 299. Sansa leaves the Eyrie in April 300. Given that word about Daenerys and dragons has been reaching Westeros during AFFC it is quite possible that Littlefinger knows in at least general terms something about Daenerys. That would certainly explain his comment about a war of the three Queens.It's possible that he might, just, know about Aegon if his sources of information from Volantis are good and depending on how long it takes Tyrion to travel to Connington and for Connington and company to travel down river.So potentially if there is something revealing or that incriminates Cersei in those tapestries he might have wanted them as a peace offering or friendship gift to ensure that he gets a good place in a future Targaryen regime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Widow's Wail could be rolled up inside a tapestry quite easily, to be smuggled out of King's Landing.Giving Sansa a wedding gift of her father's reforged Valyrian sword would be quite fitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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