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Ned + ? = Jon Snow


A Redeemed Hound

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As far as I'm concerned, this is all explained in Ned's flashback when he talks to the Kingsguard. He all but asks them, "Why are you not on Dragonstone with Viserys?" and they all but outright tell him than it's because Viserys isn't the legal claimant ("Willem Darry is a good man, and true, but he is not of the Kingsguard", "And the Kingsguard do not flee"). You don't think it's odd that they equate going to Dragonstone to protect their king with "fleeing"? Unless Viserys isn't the actual king. The whole hostage thing only works if Aerys is still alive to give the orders.

By the time Ned finds them, Aerys and Rhaegar are both dead. So if they're at the Tower of Joy on Aerys' orders to guard a hostage, those orders have expired and in theory their loyalty would have passed to the next in line. At that point, it should have been Viserys, but it wasn't. The very presence of the Kingsguard itself SCREAMS to me that Jon was, likelier than not, legitimate. Nothing else really makes sense if you think about it — if Jon was a bastard, Viserys' claim would trump his own and the Kingsguard would have gone to Dragonstone. It wasn't just that it was three Kingsguard: They were the last living/unwounded Kingsguard, including the Lord Commander.

Yeah this also proves to me above all others and Jon is probably R + L. i guess we'll find out soon enough.

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  • 1 month later...

Ok, my first post. I haven't read the whole of this topic but I know of most of the theories. Dunno if anyone has mentioned it, but does anyone think Ned and Lyanna could be Jon's parents? I mean it fits into Ned's shame, and how he 'dishonoured Catelyn in front of Gods and men'. And we hear on several occasions that he thought she was beautiful, and how often do men say their sister's are beautiful?

Ned and Lyanna, caught up in the war, could easily have succumbed to incest. Maybe Ned was comforting Lyanna about Robert 'no sticking to one bed' (I think its mentioned in GOT in a flashback or something), and maybe lust took over. Doesn't Ned say Jon is a 'product of lust'. And 'Promise me, Ned', couldn't that just be to promise to keep Jon safe and never reveal that he was born of incest? There are probably more points, and I know its far-fetched, especially as Ned villifies Cersei and Jaimie's incest, but its just a thought.

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Ok, my first post. I haven't read the whole of this topic but I know of most of the theories. Dunno if anyone has mentioned it, but does anyone think Ned and Lyanna could be Jon's parents? I mean it fits into Ned's shame, and how he 'dishonoured Catelyn in front of Gods and men'. And we hear on several occasions that he thought she was beautiful, and how often do men say their sister's are beautiful?

Ned and Lyanna, caught up in the war, could easily have succumbed to incest. Maybe Ned was comforting Lyanna about Robert 'no sticking to one bed' (I think its mentioned in GOT in a flashback or something), and maybe lust took over. Doesn't Ned say Jon is a 'product of lust'. And 'Promise me, Ned', couldn't that just be to promise to keep Jon safe and never reveal that he was born of incest? There are probably more points, and I know its far-fetched, especially as Ned villifies Cersei and Jaimie's incest, but its just a thought.

The key point against this theory, is that after the war started, Ned didn't see Lyanna again until her death at the ToJ.

So for Ned and Lyanna to be Jon's parents, he would have had to been conceived before the war started and before Rhaegar ran off with Lyanna. At that time, Ned's still at the Eyrie and she's either at Winterfell or Riverrun (I can't remember - anyone wanna help out?).

Based on the rough timeline we have for Jon's birth - that would make him too old.

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The key point against this theory, is that after the war started, Ned didn't see Lyanna again until her death at the ToJ.

So for Ned and Lyanna to be Jon's parents, he would have had to been conceived before the war started and before Rhaegar ran off with Lyanna. At that time, Ned's still at the Eyrie and she's either at Winterfell or Riverrun (I can't remember - anyone wanna help out?).

Based on the rough timeline we have for Jon's birth - that would make him too old.

Right I knew I hadn't thought it through, I don't actually believe it, just another crazy theory.

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Also Ned would never do that it makes more sense that Lyanna had the child with someone else and Ned took the child after she died and raised him because he loved her (Brotherly love). Or its Ned's child with Ashara

Yeah like I said its just a crazy theory, I by no means think its true. I was a R+L= J for a while but I now think Jon is Ned and Ashara's.

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I've always felt that R+L=J, but I do like the idea of Jon being the son of Ned and Ashara Dayne. But personally I think it's more likely that

Aegon/Young Griff is the son of Ned and Ashara, because I do believe that Ned fathered a bastard or at least had an affair with someone. I think this also works with Barristan's comment about a Stark dishonouring Ashara. However, I'm not sure if the age of Young Griff would match with the age of the real Aegon. I'd assume that the real Aegon would be somewhat older than Young Griff - assuming that he is actually the son of (an unknowing) Ned and Ashara.

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Maybe Lyanna have had twins, one is Aegon or even Daenarys and looks like a Targaryen and the other one looks like a Stark and is Jon.

Ned couldn t bring 2 bastards with one looking like a Targaryen, it would be too suspicious so he went to see Ashara and gave her the Targaryen looking baby. Then she left Westeros with him.

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Ned + Ashara = Aegon, but I disagree about how it came about.

The timeline suggests that Elia would have have fallen pregnant just around or after Harranhal, at about the same time Ashara was pregnant.

So if Elia had a stillbirth and Ashara had a little silver-haired* boy then a baby swap solves both their problems. Ashara is saved the shame of a bastard, and Elia gets to prove she can give Rhaegar more children.

*some variety of silver-hair and purple eyes is common to Daynes and Targ.

If you believe Ashara killed herself this would also explain the timing, she had just learnt that Gregor Clegane killed her son.

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I don't think the timeline fits for Ashara being Jon's mother by Ned. We have no evidence of them being anywhere near each other after Harrenhal, which is too early for Jon to have been conceived. At the time of Harrenhal, Ned wasn't promised to anyone yet, so if he got Ashara pregnant, there would've been no real reason to cover it up. I actually think that if anyone got Ashara pregnant, it was Brandon. He would have already been promised to Catelyn, wouldn't he? So that would explain a pregnancy cover-up.

I'm 50/50 on whether Ashara is alive. But I don't think she's Jon's mother.

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