[BOOK SPOILERS] Changes from book to screen

[Tywin's bastard]

-1 Would have loved to see some sort of passage of time from their departure from the wall until their encounter with the Others.

I felt the same way. Still, after remembering how close the two rangers from Benjen's squad was found I figured that it's not really that important how far off the Wall the prologue takes place since the Others clearly come close to it at times.

-2 The Others were going to be a major creature design challenge but I don't feel they were very successful. Considering that we won't see them again for awhile hopefully that will give the production some time to rethink their approach. Other than that I'll probably get used to them when they start making more appearances.

That is pretty much the only thing I would really want them to change. I would prefer something closer to the description in the books as this diverts even from those vague words.

-4 Exterior of Winterfell needed a forest, wintertown, and farms. I have trouble believing this castle, but more than anything the land it's built on could support a dynasty capable of controlling the north.

I don't mind that there's no forest there because one of the last things you want very close to a keep is a forest where armies can hide. Wintertown would have been nice but it's still pretty empty at the beginning of the story and it's said that people mostly come there at winter so to me that's not a big deal either. The North is always described as being scattered.

Nerdrage aside, I can't wait.

This must be one of the most gentle things to ever be called nerdrage. :)

[Padraig]

I have seen the following reasons for the Gared/ Will switch

- actor related issues (Will's look etc)

- establishing definite continuity to main character of prologue and the execution

those seem valid and reasonable...

BUT....

later on as Lord Mormont is planning the ranging in force we learn:

-Mormont is concerned because Rangers are deserting/ disappearing

-he sent Royce the greenhorn out w/ one of most experienced available Ranger-> disappeared

-finally sends Benjen out with a group of rangers -> disappear

Mormont is thinking it's just the wildings, what are they up to?

We the reader know a little more. We now can put together all the pieces that one of the most experienced men of the Night's Watch saw and experienced something that it so totally unhinged him that he was completely incoherent and a dead man walking. It helps us better appreciate how unprepared the NW are to go up against what they face.

I don't understand the logic here. Given you have a big BUT in the middle, i'm assuming you think there is a good reason why Gared should have been executed and not Will? But I can't see why based on this argument. He is still clearly very scared in the TV series. He runs away as fast as Will after all.

As for Arya. She doesn't get an opportunity with a bow in the books does she? A bow could have been useful against Lorch but nobody is going to expect a kid to start killing men with a bow. Not that I really expect her to be good at the bow in the books. But at the same time, if she was good, nothing in the books would change. If that makes sense? In other words, having a bow is the kind of change that explains a lot about Arya quickly, without messing up the future story.

Winterfell isn't consistent with the books. OTOH, the North isn't well populated and as Ran said previously, one can assume that the winter town is on the other side of the castle if one wants. Winterfell is in its location because of the hot springs, not because it is an agricultural heartland also.

Do people actually get a good glimpse of the Others? I have seen some freeze-frames but most of the audience wouldn't see those. We only get a good look at the girl wight. Thus, I don't think most people will understand the difference between the 2 creatures. They'll presumably assume that a wight killed the NW men. OTOH, when I read the book for the first time, I didn't realise there was any difference between wights and Others also. So, its all very consistent in some ways. :) (Admittedly, when I read it again, its very obvious).

Is talking about the available Direwolves scene kosher in this thread?

I don't see why not. We are allowes spoilers here. :)

[Cold Hands-Hot Pie]

My point is there are 2 kinds of scared:

-running away scared, like we see from Gared in the preview. that's just basic survival mode. probably happens after every battle to a whole bunch of men

--on the other hand we have scared so thoroughly that you 'go mad' it seems to me that's a more rare kind of mad. the deserter is captured probably weeks after the event took place w/ the Others and he's still not gotten it together. that takes a much bigger shock in my mind

to me having a seasoned man like Gared 'go mad' from fear has more impact than a relatively raw individual like Will. I also think that if Gared is the deserter that they have to play up the going mad part more. As it was portrayed Will didn't seem all that bad off:

--he acknowledged that he should have gone back and warned them at the wall

--he asks for forgiveness

--he says" I saw what I saw' indicating to me that he knows he's not likely to be believed.

I just think a raving mad Gared who was a seasoned Ranger has more impact,

BUT I do acknowledge that there are potential viable reasons to do it the way it was done and I'm not freaking out or condemning the change; I just like George's approach better.

I would love it if after each episode the writers had a panel with fans and could explain reasons for any changes like this. Of course that would be dreaming....

[Asha—Not Yara!]

I hope in the DVD we'll get some commentary tracks from the directors and writers. That'd be a good place for us to learn little details about why they changed some minor things which I'd be curious to learn even if they don't bother me (which none really have so far).

[Padraig]

My point is there are 2 kinds of scared:

-running away scared, like we see from Gared in the preview. that's just basic survival mode. probably happens after every battle to a whole bunch of men

Something was bugging me so I had to check the books. In Bran's chapter the following is reported:

"There were questions asked and answers given".

And then I realised what bugged me. There is this discussion about how the man died. Ned later says he was half-mad but he died well. So clearly he wasn't a completely gibbering idiot or there is no way he could die well. And in fact, given the questions and answers mentioned, it is clear there was some sort of conservation.

So i'm thinking that this whole mad-Gared idea is somewhat exaggerated. In fact, it wouldn't make a lot of sense. To reach Winterfell he has to be somewhat in control of his senses.

In the TV series both have a very bad reaction, so I don't think there is anything to take from that. Will is just lucky to live (edited to add: initially).

But yes, the DVDs/Blu-rays will be a treasure throve. :)

[Green Apple Fossoway]

The only thing I really miss from the books was Royce dueling with the Other and how they just fuck with him until his sword shatters. I miss the casual cruelty of it, like orcas playing with baby seals or cats with mice they caught. Other than that I loved it, even Ser Rodrick's sideburns, which took a while to grow accustomed to.

[Tywin's bastard]

My point is there are 2 kinds of scared:

-running away scared, like we see from Gared in the preview. that's just basic survival mode. probably happens after every battle to a whole bunch of men

--on the other hand we have scared so thoroughly that you 'go mad' it seems to me that's a more rare kind of mad. the deserter is captured probably weeks after the event took place w/ the Others and he's still not gotten it together. that takes a much bigger shock in my mind

to me having a seasoned man like Gared 'go mad' from fear has more impact than a relatively raw individual like Will. I also think that if Gared is the deserter that they have to play up the going mad part more. As it was portrayed Will didn't seem all that bad off:

--he acknowledged that he should have gone back and warned them at the wall

--he asks for forgiveness

--he says" I saw what I saw' indicating to me that he knows he's not likely to be believed.

I just think a raving mad Gared who was a seasoned Ranger has more impact,

BUT I do acknowledge that there are potential viable reasons to do it the way it was done and I'm not freaking out or condemning the change; I just like George's approach better.

I would love it if after each episode the writers had a panel with fans and could explain reasons for any changes like this. Of course that would be dreaming....

Will probably says "I saw what I saw" because he's been explaining himself to his captors and none have believed him. Eddard is hardly the first person he's spoken to since he deserted. He doesn't seem to be quite at his best mentally either since he keeps repeating how he saw the White Walkers when he's led to the chop block.

As for Gared, the new audience won't know that he's a seasoned veteran. Sure, he's old but one of the young men is clearly in charge and apparently braver than the other two (and as Will is scared because he actually saw the massacre Gared doesn't seem braver than him either). The important parts about Gared being scared enough to desert are thus not really shown as I see it.

[Padraig]

The only thing I really miss from the books was Royce dueling with the Other and how they just fuck with him until his sword shatters. I miss the casual cruelty of it, like orcas playing with baby seals or cats with mice they caught. Other than that I loved it, even Ser Rodrick's sideburns, which took a while to grow accustomed to.

They certainly mess with Will instead. Throwing a head at him? :P And then letting him go. Its the same idea, just a different spin.

[Trebla]

They certainly mess with Will instead. Throwing a head at him? :P And then letting him go. Its the same idea, just a different spin.

I concur. Dropping the guantlet, or in this care a head. Then letting him go so he call tell the tale. They are but saying, "Winter is Coming, bitches!"

[Corvinus85]

I concur. Dropping the guantlet, or in this care a head. Then letting him go so he call tell the tale. They are but saying, "Winter is Coming, bitches!"

I also assumed that the throwing of Gared's head is sort of a replacement for Theon kicking Gared's head in the book. The Other mockingly throws the head, and then you see the blood turning the snow red.

[Ran]

Wearing contacts for hours when you have sensitive eyes has nothing to do with being "sensitive". That shit can hurt. It's pretty insensitive to suggest they were "overlooked" -- they tried them, but not only did it bug the actors, it also looked unconvincing at times (colored contacts can look quite fake under certain lights).

And no, saying "they can CG it" is not a solution.

If George R.R. Martin doesn't have an issue with the cosmetic changes, as he realizes that actors are people and there's only so much that can be convincingly done (especially in a temporary way) with hair and eyes, then I think fans should respect that.

[Jon of the Wall]

Wearing contacts for hours when you have sensitive eyes has nothing to do with being "sensitive". That shit can hurt. It's pretty insensitive to suggest they were "overlooked" -- they tried them, but not only did it bug the actors, it also looked unconvincing at times (colored contacts can look quite fake under certain lights).

And no, saying "they can CG it" is not a solution.

If George R.R. Martin doesn't have an issue with the cosmetic changes, as he realizes that actors are people and there's only so much that can be convincingly done (especially in a temporary way) with hair and eyes, then I think fans should respect that.

I would never even have mentioned it if the topic had not been posted. But since it was I expressed my opinion.

I never said to CG the eyes. I have very sensetive eyes and wear contacts for 2 days in a row sometimes and wear the same pair for two months. They are not an issue. There are options that would have worked for anyone's eyes. We are only talking abouut two people and

one of them does not live very long

The color of the Lannister Twins' hair was/is a major aspect of the twins' persona and their relationship. Their hair was supposed to stand out.

What if Melisandra had drab brown hair? No big deal? The Twins' hair color is just as important as Melisandra's

Some things should just be.

The two things I mentioned cannot be that difficult to accomplish. I hope this laziness does not reflect the whole production.

Just because GRRM has no issue with it does not mean that it is not important. While I do not think he is a sellout, he does have a very large financial reason to go easy on these issues.

[Tywin's bastard]

Jon of the Wall,

You're perfectly entitled to your opinions but the fact remains that they tried using colored contacts and it just didn't work because it didn't look right. As for wearing them, I would guess that someone that's used to wearing contacts can still do it better than someone who's never done it before (I've never tried it myself so I could be wrong) and you need to have the actors eyes to be comfortable since that's where most of the emotional acting goes on. So I can't really see it as lazy when they tried and didn't like the result.

As for the Lannister hair color, I haven't heard anything from production about their choice. As for the connection to gold, gold isn't really that bright in color.

[smegma]

The article not only says that colored contacts didn't work for the actors, but that they "don't always look right anyway". That is so very, very, very true. Ever since the news was announced that they were doing the HBO show, I hoped that they didn't put the actors in colored contacts because they just look BAD and they remove an element of expressiveness from an actor's face. I'm always very aware when an actor has colored contacts in and it is just jarring. Both Emilia Clarke and Harry Lloyd have great eyes (and I don't normally like bluish eyes) and to cover them up would be a crime. It's really not that important, as the Targs are already differentiated by their hair. HBO did the absolute right thing, in my opinion.

As for Jaime and Cersei's hair - they are both blond. Their hair is significantly lighter than Robert's (and Renly's). The color of each of their hair actually looks more realistic and goes with their skin tones well. There is no loss of impact there, and they both look gorgeous. Looking at what we've seen of them, I think they have a great look on screen when they are together and plenty blond (even if it's a darker shade - but that makes the Targs look even more unusual).

There's been no evidence of this "laziness", just wise choices, in my opinion.

[Abaddon]

So the poor, spoiled little actors could not standto color thier hair or wear contacts. Boo-hoo.

Uhm, yeah. The actors aren't the ones coming across as spoiled.

[igoraki]

And no, saying "they can CG it" is not a solution.

They could do the color correction of the eyes,that's not complicated but cost money like any other post production,so only reason that's not a solution is budget.

[Green Apple Fossoway]

They certainly mess with Will instead. Throwing a head at him? :P And then letting him go. Its the same idea, just a different spin.

Yeah, but for me it's the difference between playing with you food, and playing with your food's friend. Not the same thing. Somebody in this thread or another around here was complaining that they didn't like how the Others seemed to be more about sneaking up on you and attacking through stealth and surprise, whereas in the book they fought Royce, let him think he had a chance, drew out the fun. Just made it creepier to me.

[Padraig]

Yeah, but for me it's the difference between playing with you food, and playing with your food's friend. Not the same thing.

I'm not saying its the same. I'm just saying there are similarities. I imagine D&D picked this approach to cut down on time, which is very valid. They are going to do a lot of that. So rather than expecting everything to be exactly the same, I like seeing how the spirit remains the same. In this case, the teasing, mocking Others are still front and central. :)

Nothing significant changes.

[Talleyrand]

I don't know why but this is really bugging me. Renly isn't big enough. It's that annoying little nitpicking voice in the back of my head. AGoT says that all the Baratheon brothers are big men and then in either SoS or AFFC Loras says how he was too small to wear Renly's armour so Garlan had to do it

[Axon]

The article not only says that colored contacts didn't work for the actors, but that they "don't always look right anyway". That is so very, very, very true. Ever since the news was announced that they were doing the HBO show, I hoped that they didn't put the actors in colored contacts because they just look BAD and they remove an element of expressiveness from an actor's face. I'm always very aware when an actor has colored contacts in and it is just jarring. Both Emilia Clarke and Harry Lloyd have great eyes (and I don't normally like bluish eyes) and to cover them up would be a crime. It's really not that important, as the Targs are already differentiated by their hair. HBO did the absolute right thing, in my opinion.

As for Jaime and Cersei's hair - they are both blond. Their hair is significantly lighter than Robert's (and Renly's). The color of each of their hair actually looks more realistic and goes with their skin tones well. There is no loss of impact there, and they both look gorgeous. Looking at what we've seen of them, I think they have a great look on screen when they are together and plenty blond (even if it's a darker shade - but that makes the Targs look even more unusual).

There's been no evidence of this "laziness", just wise choices, in my opinion.

My sole complaint about the casting is that I would have preferred Tricia Helfer as sex bo-omb Cersei. However, Lena has not disappointed from what I've seen of her performance thus far, she is not portrayed as the drool inducing human viagra that Helfer is.