Exercise and Fitness Thread

[howland_reed]

http://calorielab.com/foods/vegetable-oil/53

Generally speaking, if you're talking about a pure oil, it's all fat. All fat is going to have the same caloric content per given weight/volume, no matter which you try. If all you care about is calories, then yeah, go for one of the not-really-oil cooking sprays, because those will add the fewest calories. If you are talking about types of fat contained within the oil, it gets more complicated.

(ETA: Personally, I usually use a local olive oil. For certain types of cooking, or where I want the different flavor, I use macadamia oil.)

Thanks, will look into some cooking sprays.

[TerraPrime]

So I know grilling, or even baking/roasting, is healthier. But I'm mainly asking which cooking oil is nonetheless the healthiest (that is, adds the least number of calories), if you had to choose. I keep reading different reports on the internet, professing coconut oil (high in saturated fats), or canola oil (high in monounsat. fats), or grapeseed oil (high in polyunsat fats), but I'm not really a health expert to understand what any of that means.

"Healthiest" is not always the same as "lowest calorie." Maybe oil X has more calorie, but maybe it comes with antioxidants?

As far as caloric content, you can check the wiki pages:

Oilve oil

Grape seed oil

These pages contain caloric content. Unfortunately, the pages for canola and coconut oil do not. So I don't know they stack up against each other in terms of calorie.

However, there is a wiki page on comparing cooking oils: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooking_oil

Judging from that table, I would not use coconut oil at all, given the high % of saturated fat in the oil, for health reasons. Along the same line, canola is the healthiest oil of the bunch, imo.

As far as terms, "saturated" and "unsaturated" refers to the type of hydrocarbon tails that these oils contain. The more unsaturated it is, the less calorie it stores, because saturation is the presence of double covalent bonds between the carbons on the fat and double bonds store more energy than single (unsaturated) bonds do. Unfortunately, as far as I know, there are no regulations on what can be called "polyunsaturated" (as in, how many unsaturation is needed to be called that? Two? Three? Four?).

Be particularly careful in evaluating oils like grapeseed and coconut and olive oils, where they have other organic compounds that give them that flavor. Some will claim that grapeseed oil has antioxidant properties, etc., and those I take with some skepticism when it's implied that the antioxidant property of the oil is still retained after the cooking process.

In my entirely non-professional opinion, the difference in calorie between the different types of oil in the context of pan-frying a chicken breast is negligible. There are other things you can do to help reduce the amount of oil needed, such as using a frying pan that's smaller so you don't need so much oil to begin with. In a small skillet, you can get away with half a tbsp of oil without much decrease in the quality of your food, I'd guess. FWIW, I use granola oil, because it has high smoking point and no flavor, which makes cooking a lot easier. That said, I don't see why you can't use a spray on a non-stick pan. I think that's going to be the lowest amount of oil you can use.

[TerraPrime]

Generally speaking, if you're talking about a pure oil, it's all fat. All fat is going to have the same caloric content per given weight/volume, no matter which you try.

Per unit weight, I can see. Per unit volume? Not all oil are equally dense. Some oil has C16 and some have C12, and the one with longer carbon tails will be more dense, and since density is mass/volume, if we have the same mass (i.e same weight), but different density, then their volumes must be different. At least, that's my back-of-the-napkin math :-p.

[howland_reed]

"Healthiest" is not always the same as "lowest calorie." Maybe oil X has more calorie, but maybe it comes with antioxidants?

As far as caloric content, you can check the wiki pages:

Oilve oil

Grape seed oil

These pages contain caloric content. Unfortunately, the pages for canola and coconut oil do not. So I don't know they stack up against each other in terms of calorie.

However, there is a wiki page on comparing cooking oils: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooking_oil

Judging from that table, I would not use coconut oil at all, given the high % of saturated fat in the oil, for health reasons. Along the same line, canola is the healthiest oil of the bunch, imo.

As far as terms, "saturated" and "unsaturated" refers to the type of hydrocarbon tails that these oils contain. The more unsaturated it is, the less calorie it stores, because saturation is the presence of double covalent bonds between the carbons on the fat and double bonds store more energy than single (unsaturated) bonds do. Unfortunately, as far as I know, there are no regulations on what can be called "polyunsaturated" (as in, how many unsaturation is needed to be called that? Two? Three? Four?).

Be particularly careful in evaluating oils like grapeseed and coconut and olive oils, where they have other organic compounds that give them that flavor. Some will claim that grapeseed oil has antioxidant properties, etc., and those I take with some skepticism when it's implied that the antioxidant property of the oil is still retained after the cooking process.

In my entirely non-professional opinion, the difference in calorie between the different types of oil in the context of pan-frying a chicken breast is negligible. There are other things you can do to help reduce the amount of oil needed, such as using a frying pan that's smaller so you don't need so much oil to begin with. In a small skillet, you can get away with half a tbsp of oil without much decrease in the quality of your food, I'd guess. FWIW, I use granola oil, because it has high smoking point and no flavor, which makes cooking a lot easier. That said, I don't see why you can't use a spray on a non-stick pan. I think that's going to be the lowest amount of oil you can use.

Thanks, very helpful post. And yes, I realize "healthiest" could have multiple meanings for different people, which is why I defined it for my specific purposes ;)

From what I've also read, canola oil has a higher smoking point than olive oil as well. I'll go with the spray though. Thanks for the explanation.

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

Okay, I've been out-nitpicked, and am wrong. :P

That was influenced by that chart I linked, which put all of the oils as having the same calories per Tbsp, which is a volume measurement. This site seems to break them down a bit more, though there's still not (generally) a huge difference.

[CelticKnight]

Speaking of saturated fats, here's an interesting scientific article about its relation with CVDs.

[Stego]

Speaking of saturated fats, here's an interesting scientific article about its relation with CVDs.

This is kinda old news though, isn't it?

[CelticKnight]

This is kinda old news though, isn't it?

Maybe, but I'd say most of the general population, including people in this thread think saturated fats are bad and unhealthy, when they're not.

[Tempra]

Maybe, but I'd say most of the general population, including people in this thread think saturated fats are bad and unhealthy, when they're not.

Yep. And not all saturated fat is equal. Coconut oil is extremely healthy even though it is higher in saturated fat. There are a lot of people basing their decisions on 1980s science when it comes to saturated fat and dietary cholesterol.

[howland_reed]

Yep. And not all saturated fat is equal. Coconut oil is extremely healthy even though it is higher in saturated fat. There are a lot of people basing their decisions on 1980s science when it comes to saturated fat and dietary cholesterol.

Yeah, I dug up even more articles on the matter, and found this piece, dated 11/28/10:

http://www.livestrong.com/article/319750-coconut-oil-vs-canola-oil/

Which favors canola oil...until I read the comments on that same page that utterly dispute it and sound more reliable.

And after reading about how canola oil was genetically engineered from rapeseed, I'm leaning in favor of the more natural product. Plus, I enjoy coconut, and wouldn't mind the flavor.

[Noontidal]

Quick question.

Which is actually harder, running on an actual road, or on a treadmill?

[Noontidal]

Well, suppose a flat road vs no incline. As far as speed goes, it's harder to tell on a road.

[Mudguard]

I've heard that running on a flat road is about equivalent to running on a 1% incline. Outside, you have wind resistance that you don't have on a treadmill.

[Eponine]

Running on the treadmill at no wind resistance is generally held to be easier because of lack of wind resistance. However, temperature and ventilation will be big factors - no wind also means that it's harder to dissipate heat. You can't assume that if you were outside, you'd be running into a 10 mph headwind, so on a still day, with the same starting temperature and minimal inside ventilation, running outside might be easier. Also, it can be more difficult to never have a break or variation in pace.

I find it very difficult to run with any incline on the treadmill.

[Mudguard]

I think the 1% harder analysis assumes that there is no outside wind. In that situation, the relative wind that you feel as you run is equal to your running speed. For example, if you are running 7 mph and there is no actual wind, it will feel as if there is a 7 mph wind blowing into your face, which is nice because it does cool you down. And because there is no outside wind, if you suddenly turn around and run back towards your starting point at 7 mph, you would again feel as if there is a 7 mph wind blowing into your face. At a decent running speed the cooling effect is quite noticible, as is the relative wind resistance.

If there is outside wind, it would make the analysis case by case and would depend a lot on your route with respect to the wind. The 1% analysis also assumes that you have adequate cooling indoors.

I tried running on a treadmill once, for about 45 minutes, and I ended up changing my gait a little bit, I think. It didn't feel exactly normal. It also fatigued my lower leg much more than normal. Maybe it was because of the lack of variation. Also, when I stepped off the treadmill, there was a strange moment where my body/mind felt as if the world should be still moving beneath me. I had to take a step or two to maintain balance. It was a very strange sensation. I think I could have eliminated it if I slowed the treadmill to a slow walking pace for a while and then got off, rather than suddenly stopping the treadmill and getting off as fast as possible. I think it's a perception issue, so maybe running blindfolded on the treadmill would also eliminate the effect. Or maybe it was just a one time thing. I never ran on a treadmill again, so I'm not sure if I would get that effect again.

[lokisnow]

ahh, fun heavy lifting day today.

Regarding oil. most cooking oils are going to be relatively similar, fat content wise, though not identical. if it's solid at room temperature it's more saturated, but lard, for example, is only 35-43% saturated, yet is solid at room temperature. Butter is a unique beast because it tends to provoke a rise in blood sugar, probably due to the milk solids, which other fats tend not to affect blood sugar.

But for cooking purposes, you're probably more concerned about three issues, flavor, smoke point and volatility (will it go rancid quickly?)

peanut oil has the highest smoke point, you're safe cooking things very hot and fast with peanut oil, but allergies, so ymmv. Back when I was 10, I discovered that peanut oil makes phenomenal popcorn, when I used some instead of mom's canola oil, so it definitely has more taste. I do find that cooking with peanut oil tends to leave a thicker mouth feel than using olive oil. This is the oil used for deep frying because it can sustain high temperatures.

Canola oil has a lower smoke point, and is prized by cooks for it's lack of flavor, you want to use it in baking when you don't want the flavor of butter, lard, or olive oil presenting itself and interfering with the rest of your flavors. the rape seed plant from which canola oil derives is sprayed with extremely high pesticides iirc, so maybe we should call it monsanto oil?

Olive Oil is typically used for salad dressings and vinegrette's when you want the flavor to come through. Extra Virgin is typically used for these applications, regular olive oil is more readily used for cooking, it's a popular cooking oil because it's a bit less cloying than peanut oil, it simply doesn't taste as oily in the mouth, and it's supposedly full of all those great fats like Oleic acid, which, btw is also a large percentage of lard. Olive oil has a pretty low smoke point, so it's very easy to burn what you're cooking if you're impatient at the stove.

Coconut Oil is a pain to keep around because it's melting point is right around room temperature, so it'll either be liquid or solid, depending. It also has a fairly potent coconutty smell to it while cooking, a smell that seems to get into fabric and stay there. I like what it does in chocolate chip cookies and smoothies but I've not much cared for using it for cooking unless I'm making a curry or something like that. I haven't used it in probably four or five years. The best use I found for it was for athletes foot. It's anti microbial and I found that slathering some on my feet soothed the itching and the affliction was gone within 36 hours after two applications (damn college gyms, and I don't walk barefoot anyway). the caveat is that it takes a long time to absorb in, so you can't walk for about forty five minutes. :-p

Butter has a very low smoke point and typically is not suitable for long term frying. I rarely use butter anymore, but it does make scrambled eggs better, imo. and it's essential in baking (not that I bake very often, anymore, either).

I don't know about grapeseed oil off the top of my head but when I've cooked with it I got lots of burps afterwards, and it had a peanut oil cloyingness, so YMMV

all of these oils are fairly shelf stable and reasonable choices for cooking. Most of the other oils tend to have very low smoke points (sesame) and/or go rancid very quickly (flax seed).

In terms of cooking chicken, a george foreman really does wonders with chicken. I recommend a bit of salt, fresh ground pepper and garlic powder (though GP only on one side). If you find your chicken is too dry, dissolve two tablespoons salt in one quart of water, put a chicken breast in a ziploc back, fill with enough brine to immerse the chicken, seal, double bag, and put in the refrigerator for 24-48 hours. The chicken will have a more spongy, brined texture, but it will be moister and pack more flavor, and even a george foreman can't dry it out. when just pan frying a chicken breast I tend to cook it with lemon slices, or with onions and wine. I use olive oil when I do it both ways. Tonight I cooked my chicken with no oil. I used a mandolin to slice thin slices of lemon. I used the slices to cover the bottom of a 9x9 pyrex. I put three seasoned chicken breast on those slices (just salt and pepper), and then covered them with more slices of lemon. I used three lemons in all. I stuck it in the oven on 325 until it was done (actually I went to the gym and came back and they were done, perhaps a bit overdone), but I expected it to dry out with all that lemon and not having bothered to brine the chicken first. Quite tasty, btw.

[baxus]

i bought new running shoes today.

now all that's left to do is to break them in until april 17th, when i'll be running half-marathon.

and run the half-marathon, of course :)

[Stego]

I will never run on concrete again.

Aren't all marathons on concrete?

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

Most are on asphalt, I think. (Road surface as opposed to sidewalks.)

[Cantabile]

All the gluten trash-talking is messing with my mind. I ate pasta last night and my stomach hurt afterwards. In my overly long time on this planet I've never had a single problem with gluten. Now all of a sudden a stomachache?

Screw you paleo eaters for tricking my brain into adverse reactions. Evil bastards, all of you.