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Putting Sansa on trial


Valmy

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It isn't absolving her of any and all mistakes that concerns me, but responding to the very vocal group of people on this board who think Sansa is responsible for nearly every horrible thing happening in the series and even responsible for other characters actions. Because quite frankly it isn't true. Other characters get a pass for telling their enemies their plans or violently attacking others, but not Sansa. No she cut off her own father's head and slit Lady's throat herself.

Of course Sansa makes mistakes, as does every other character- but few others besides Catelyn receive such hate and blame.

But you did say that we shouldn't even want Sansa to tell the truth to Robert and Cersei about the Mycah incident. Sorry, but this was a mistake by Sansa. Her sister was accused of ambushing Joffrey and setting her wolf on him without any provocation, she needed Sansa to stand up for her and Arya is very lucky that she wasn't punished very very severely. Yes, I see people who are way to harsh in their criticism of Sansa. But acting like what she did was right is just silly. And it is not fair to Arya the way people try to refute any criticism of Sansa by saying what Arya did was the actual wrong. If we can understand Sansa being afraid in front of the King, Queen, and her betrothed, why is it ok to accuse Arya of 'violently attacking others' when we know what actually happened was her acting rashly to protect her friend from violence. As for another character that you think 'gets a pass for telling their enemies their plans,' I assume you are referring to Ned who, last time I checked, was routinely mocked and derided all over these boards for being too stupid to live.

Why can't we say to Sansa haters: yes, she made a mistake not telling the truth and another mistake going to Cersei, but neither of these mistakes make her the horrible person you are making her out to be, she is just a child, and actually many other much more important factors led to the death of Lady and Ned, most important the actions of malicious adults. Why does it always seem to become a justification of each and every action Sansa takes?

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Both Sansa and Arya found themselves in a dangerously escalating situation where the right course of action would be difficult to ascertain for women twice their age, let alone the eleven and nine-year-old girls that they were.

A more mature Sansa with greater knowledge of Joffrey's moods might have been able to flatter and charm him out of doing more to Mycah than cutting his face (which, while disgusting, is less awful than Mycah's actual fate); especially if Arya had stopped herself from attacking Joffrey. If Arya was a less physically confrontational child, she might have attacked Joffrey verbally instead of physically.

The main fault was Joffrey's. He's a very dangerous boy; and unfortunately is the heir to the Iron Throne and neither Sansa nor Arya had the legal right to even push him away from poor Mycah.

I am honestly not sure whether Sansa's most prudent course would have been to pretend amnesia, as she did, or tell the truth. I tend to go with the latter, since telling the truth was the Stark way. Mycah would have died either way, and so would Lady; since Nymeria was gone and Cersei determined to kill at least one Stark direwolf for Nymeria's attack on Joffrey (I have no doubt that Cersei would not have cared whether that attack was justifiable, in the context of protecting Arya, or not).

Sansa was wrong to have pretended to have amnesia. I don't find it a huge sin; it's a childish lie; Sansa did not want to publicly take sides. I can forgive her, and do. I think Ned should have had a long talk with Sansa a week or so after Lady's death about the importance of telling the truth; but he is like his older daughter in that he sometimes seeks to avoid difficult situations and finds it too hard to discuss the matter with a depressed Sansa....(not to mention that Ned now knows that he has betrothed his daughter to a first-class little bullying sadist; he should have sent both his daughters home)

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Cersei tells herself when Maester Pycell tells her about Margeary and the moon tea in AFFC, that that was the best gift she had received since Sansa revealed her father's plans earlier. What Sansa did was give Cersie the time to act. what she did at that point was to send Jaime and the lannister troops at Kings Landing to seek out Ned at the Brothel. Ned is wounded and Jory Cassel and the Northmen accompanying thim were killed.

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But that's all nonsense, the TV series removed Sansa telling Cersei anything and all that stuff still happened. If it wasn't her, Varys or Littlefinger would've told Cersei. Sansa is just a scapegoat in that situation.

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But you did say that we shouldn't even want Sansa to tell the truth to Robert and Cersei about the Mycah incident. Sorry, but this was a mistake by Sansa. Her sister was accused of ambushing Joffrey and setting her wolf on him without any provocation, she needed Sansa to stand up for her and Arya is very lucky that she wasn't punished very very severely. Yes, I see people who are way to harsh in their criticism of Sansa. But acting like what she did was right is just silly. And it is not fair to Arya the way people try to refute any criticism of Sansa by saying what Arya did was the actual wrong. If we can understand Sansa being afraid in front of the King, Queen, and her betrothed, why is it ok to accuse Arya of 'violently attacking others' when we know what actually happened was her acting rashly to protect her friend from violence. As for another character that you think 'gets a pass for telling their enemies their plans,' I assume you are referring to Ned who, last time I checked, was routinely mocked and derided all over these boards for being too stupid to live.

Why can't we say to Sansa haters: yes, she made a mistake not telling the truth and another mistake going to Cersei, but neither of these mistakes make her the horrible person you are making her out to be, she is just a child, and actually many other much more important factors led to the death of Lady and Ned, most important the actions of malicious adults. Why does it always seem to become a justification of each and every action Sansa takes?

My post with Sansa being in the right was a tad bit exaggerated mainly for humorous effect, don't take it so so seriously. The incident wasn't Sansa's finest moment- but it hardly merits the condemnation it receives.

Ned's mistakes are clearly seen by the board- but he doesn't 'betray' his family with them or never deserve redemption. There is a clear difference between how the two character's, and others, are treated.

Is your goal to promote the idea that "everyone has a free pass to attack others". Shouldn't you argue that no one has, Sansa included?

Well, I hope so since that was my intention. No double standard.

Cersei tells herself when Maester Pycell tells her about Margeary and the moon tea in AFFC, that that was the best gift she had received since Sansa revealed her father's plans earlier. What Sansa did was give Cersie the time to act. what she did at that point was to send Jaime and the lannister troops at Kings Landing to seek out Ned at the Brothel. Ned is wounded and Jory Cassel and the Northmen accompanying thim were killed.

Wasn't Ned injured by Jaime well before Sansa went to Cersei? I think you are mixing up that incident and the one after Robert dies and Joff calls court where Ned is taken prisoner.

Cersei also told Tyrion in ACOK IIRC that Sansa revealed the master plan to her. Two things:

1. Sansa doesn't know the master plan.

2. Cersei has to tell Tyrion something since she can't tell him that Ned found out about her incest babies and she had to act. Tyrion suspecting incest babies is completely different than Cersei outright telling him so.

By the time AFFC rolls along, Cersei is well into her paranoia. I would take anything she says with a grain of salt.

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Cersei tells herself when Maester Pycell tells her about Margeary and the moon tea in AFFC, that that was the best gift she had received since Sansa revealed her father's plans earlier. What Sansa did was give Cersie the time to act. what she did at that point was to send Jaime and the lannister troops at Kings Landing to seek out Ned at the Brothel. Ned is wounded and Jory Cassel and the Northmen accompanying thim were killed.

Pardon? Jaime's action had nothing to do with Sansa, it happened even before Ned's talk with Cersei.

But that's all nonsense, the TV series removed Sansa telling Cersei anything and all that stuff still happened. If it wasn't her, Varys or Littlefinger would've told Cersei. Sansa is just a scapegoat in that situation.

Er... and what exactly does that prove? It is quite common that film version drop and link events in a different way, and whose action brought Ned's downfall is not quite so important in the grand scheme of things. It is important, however, for character development, and I think that the lack of reflection on Sansa's part here is intentional - she will obtain the full knowledge only later, probably from Littlefinger, for whom her feeling of guilt would be a powerful tool for manipulating her.

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