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Wise Man's Fear Spoilers Thread (SPOILERS)


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The other thread was up to page 13 with mostly pre-release stuff, so I figured Slick Mongoose had the right idea, and I started a dedicated spoiler thread. I'll re-post what I posted in the other thread.

I liked it to a greater degree than the first book.

Learning more about the Fae and Fae Realm was interesting, and we seem to be getting hints about the origin of the Chandrian/Seven. Regrettably, we still don't really seem to have any idea of what is going on in the greater world of the "present" in the story, other than the civil war and nasty things creeping into the world.

All of Kvothe's mooning over Denna didn't really bother me that much. It's a re-telling, and she's obviously one of the more important parts of his story, to him at least. I liked how their relationship seemed to be falling apart near the end, mostly because* both of them were carrying open secrets (Denna and her sadistic patron, Kvothe and Felurian/his adventures/his romances with other women) that they knew the other knew about, but couldn't actually talk about out loud.

I agree that the Ademre training section went on for too long. It was mildly interesting at first, but I quickly started thinking "Okay, when is he finally going to be getting back to Vint?" That might just be me, though - I'm not particularly fond of the whole "ascetic warrior race" set-up, nor of swordsmanship training sequences.

The bandit tracking sequence had some of the same stuff, but it at least had a very cool ending when Kvothe does his lightning "white pillar of fire" method for destroying the bandit camp. I liked it more.

Kvothe's friends seemed more fleshed out in this one, but I'd still be hard-pressed to really define them beyond one or two attributes. Fela is . . . pretty and smart. Simmon is . . . a poet? Fond of chasing women and failing before hooking up with Fela? In love with Fela? On the other hand, Auri, Elodin, his fellow bandit hunters, and Devi seemed much more "solid".

Anyways, it was an overall enjoyable book.

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The book definitely dragged at some parts, but I finished it in something like 30 hours so it definitely passed my test.

I really liked the increased focus on naming in this book, it definitely stuck out and I enjoyed how it was done. Subtly Kvothe describes things in terms of true names to us, the audience, but Kvothe the character rejects and pushes the idea away within the story. Until he doesn't.

I loved the increased perspective he had at the University after coming back, and it definitely felt much much better when he returned. I liked how he subtly began to notice hidden secrets all around him when he returned, Elodin using handspeak, Denna with Yllish in her hair etc.

I liked the continuing use of locked chests doors etc. throughout the story. Without being at the end I cannot tell how they set things up, but... The four plate doors seems to have no key. Neither does the 'Lockless' box. Kvothe's chest can no longer be opened by him or Bast, though he has the keys. But Hemme's room can as gan the chest of gold taxes. Ambrose's window can be opened, but locks you in once you are there (similar to the way I feel about the fae world, and the future as told by the Cthaeth).

I liked the soldiers attacking Kvothe at the inn. I liked the way they set up Chekhov's skill, and used it to bring Kvothe down to earth. He realizes he is no longer what he once was, and begins to practice the Ketan in the stillness of the Silence of Three parts.

I liked the idea of the sword tree test and how it explained the scars on the Adem, and especially identified with 'Spinning Leaf' as a state of mind that I myself enter occasionally. I liked the way Kvothe realized that Tempi, Tempa, and Temper are all similar words, but cannot connect it to the idea that they have a common true name in the past.

I didn't like the fae realm very much, nor did I enjoy much of the tracking of the book. They of course set up Cinder very nicely though. I did like the way Kvothe is no longer explaining the bindings to us as he did with the Draccus. I do like the way he calls them too complex, and he simply 'knows' what to do in these situations but could never recreate them.

I did not like the renewed emphasis on money in the positive at the end of the book. It was almost as annoying as the poor schtick at the beginning.

I'll stop now haha.

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In short, I really liked it - though if you didn't like The Name of the Wind, I don't think you'll like The Wise Man's Fear either. But if you did like The Name of the Wind, I think you'll like this one even more.

An excerpt from my review:

In this series, Rothfuss sets out deconstruct the standard epic fantasy hero. To do this he must embrace a number of the classic tropes involved Kvothe is orphaned, driven to avenge his parents death, attractive, arrogant, gifted (at music and in some academic pursuits), an adolescent coming of age, a legendary fighter, a talented wizard, etc. The joy for me is in watching Rothfuss slowly dissect this ideal fantasy hero a classic Gary Stu if you will. Rothfuss chooses to do so by having an older and (possibly) wiser hero relay his story to a chronicler and the reader sees this all through the first person perspective of Kvothe telling his coming of age story. Kvothe chooses what to share and how to share it while periodic interludes provide hints of the popular versions of these events as told by people at large and offer other fun and interesting perspectives. Kvothe often leaves out what would otherwise seem rather important like the time he is on a ship attacked and sunk by pirates which he barely survives after which he spends time as a penniless beggar is glossed over in only a couple of lines, yet he spends pages mooning over the girl of his dreams. Apparently one of the more infamous events in Kvothes popular lore is a trial that he eventually wins yet he barely mentions it in his retelling, much to the chroniclers chagrin. The reader is left wondering which is more at work the exaggeration of rumor or Kvothes own version of things?

The truth is that all of this would be a complete failure if not for Rothfuss incredible story-telling ability. The style that he writes with is intoxicating and addictive there is energy to his story-telling that cannot be denied. Calling the book a page-turner doesnt quite do it this is a 1000+ page book that reads like a book less than half its size. In a time when I have very limited time for reading, I still managed to finish it in less than a week. The way Rothfuss writes makes me think hes one of those people that you could spend all night listening to as they tell one ridiculous story after another. At the time of your listening you are having the time of your life, later in retrospect you kind of wonder what the big deal was.

Full Review

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Good work.

For me it was fantastic, it did everything NotW did but better. I might be overusing the word "great" in this post.

The opening was really well done, I thought. Yes, a some of it was recap but it was done it a way that more stuff was also happening. Like when we're in the archives researching the Amyr, and we learn more about it at the same time. Or when we're reminded of how wierd Elodin is, and how much Hemme and Kvothe dislike each other, in that brilliantly funny first Elodin scene ("Wait, whose room is this?" :lol:). I don't often laugh out loud at books, but for this I did.

And then there's the important stuf that Kvothe's in the university for. Learning naming (kinda). The great scene when Kvothe realises that someone's attacking him with a simulacrum with his blood, and the subsequent drama with Devi, and the great sympathy fight they had. The naming lessons. The Archives (I still want to know what's behind that door, dammit!).

Then the shipwreck, and I understand why it was glossed over. The sstory is about the things that really affected Kvothe, the things he chased after and the things that changed him. The shipwreck didn't, he seemed to just get on with things afterwards. It was eventful, but not important. And I can't say I really wanted to read about it. The trial is similar, although I think it would have been fun to read. But in this case, it should have affected Kvothe, he should have realised from it that ordinary people are indeed terrified of magic, and he shouldn't show off as much. A sign of immaturity that he didn't, I guess.

The scenes with Maer were fun, it'd be nice to have learned why he was being poisoned, hopefully we will in the next book. Was his wife, Lady Lackless, old enough to be Kvothe's aunt? Something I need to look out for on a re-read.

Then the tracking stuff, which came to a phenominal climax when Kvothe took out the bandits. The image of him cutting up this body, getting more and more bloody as his companion watches in utter horror. Just insane. If I recall correctly from book 1 Chronicler mentions that rumours have started about Kvothe being a new Chandrian, and it's easy to see why. It also shows, fairly unsubtly, the growing darkness in Kvothe. He doesn't seem as bothered as he should be afterwards. We see it later with the fake Ruh as well.

Then Felurian, which was probably the weakest part, but there was that awesome scene when they fight, and Kvothe names her. Wow.

The Adem part it seems like I enjoyed more than most. The sword tree scene was amazing, with Kvothe walking calmly through at fist and then stoppong the wind on the way back. And did the end, when he sliced his hand and held it up, remind anyone else of the Amyr?

I think they saw the darkness in Kvothe, and really tried to help him. And then almost his first action after leaving was slaughter. I don't know if it broke their code or not, certainly the fake Ruh deserved it.

And what's in Lady Lackless's box? The name of the moon? Does this mean that Kvothe's name could be in his own locked chest?

And then we're back at the University, and Kvothe is a legend in his own time. His money worries seem to be over, although I can see it going horribly wrong (tuition set at 100 talents just as Maer withdraws his money?). Kvothe is seeing, rather than just looking, and making progress with naming.

So when's book 3 out? :leaving:

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The technology in the Kvothe-world seems even more odd in this one than in the first one. They have all this neat alchemical and sympathy-related stuff (plus a lot of more modern terminology and ideas about chemistry/physics/etc), but their transportation technology and weaponry still seem very limited - bows, wind-powered ships, carts pulled by horses.

And then we're back at the University, and Kvothe is a legend in his own time. His money worries seem to be over, although I can see it going horribly wrong (tuition set at 100 talents just as Maer withdraws his money?). Kvothe is seeing, rather than just looking, and making progress with naming.

That seems likely, considering that Kvothe mentioned that the story gets darker again from the stopping point. My guess is that the Maer's issues with bandits are just the tip of the iceberg - Kvothe will probably get news in the next book that the Maer is dead/incapacitated, and that Lady Meluan is cutting off the gold tap. Certainly at some point he's going to piss off a King enough so that his head becomes worth a ton of money plus a duchy.

EDIT: I forgot to add, but I loved the humor in this book. The part where Elodim is talking about the three ways lovers go about expressing their love, and then makes the joke about Kvothe grabbing her breasts, completely cracked me for several minutes.

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The technology in the Kvothe-world seems even more odd in this one than in the first one. They have all this neat alchemical and sympathy-related stuff (plus a lot of more modern terminology and ideas about chemistry/physics/etc), but their transportation technology and weaponry still seem very limited - bows, wind-powered ships, carts pulled by horses.

The issue as far as I can tell is that all of this learning is concentrated at one university, where a lot of the students do not seem to be focused on invention. That is to say, there seems to be very little general knowledge of university style academia outside of the university.

The setting reminds me a lot of what Newton thought of our world (this is not going to be cited by me, but I remember it fairly decently... I think). That is, Newton was hugely smart, invented calculus etc. But he was also very into numerology, the occult, and alchemy. (I recall he added 'Indigo' to the color spectrum because he believed there should be 7 colors instead of 6. Given the inherent power of the number 7). Imagine what people like Newton, Tesla etc. would be focusing on if things like the occult actually proved to be resourceful areas of inquiry? The world would be totally different.

Also, knowing Pat originally studying ChemE, the things he writes about chemistry are so spot on to my feelings on the subject it is wonderful. I love the way Kvothe romanticizes about the beauty of chemistry while those studying it only care about data and tables. Spot. On.

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Why is nobody mentioning the whole Meluan's sister ran of with an Edema Ruh part? That combined with the part in book 1 where he sings a children's song (or is it just a poem?) about Lady Lackless and his mom flips out of him makes it pretty clear that his mother was Lady Lackless right? Making Meluan his aunt. As far as age goes I'm not sure, but I assumed Meluan was around 25, Kvothe is 16 turning 17, so if his mother was pregnant when she ran off with Arliden(sp?) Meluan would've been 9 at the most, so why is she so angry about it, if anything it helped her out by making her the sole heir, and they can't have been that close if they were like 10 years apart in age. I'm surprised that didn't get resolved in this book too, I thought for sure at some point Meluan would namedrop Arliden the bard and Kvothe would have an OHHHHHH moment, seems like a pretty easy/obvious thing to wrap up no reason to leave it to the next book.

With Cinder...why is one of the Chandrian wasting his time leading bandits to steal taxes? And why does he not use any magic to combat Kvothe? I would assume at this point he is much stronger than Kvothe. Since the "up to present day Kvothe" trilogy is almost over I think it's pretty safe to assume the Chandrian are still out there, so I'm wondering if Cinder is going to end up being the main villain of this trilogy with Kvothe and him fighting in book 3, and then the other Chandrian will comprise the second trilogy. Oh one more thing about this scene, minor gripe but if he can make five bindings and break 5 bow strings, why can't he bind the corpse to 5 people at once and stab them all in the kidney?

I absolutely hated the "got shipwrecked and lost all my stuff" glossed over part. Not because it was glossed over, but because, if it was so unnecessary to the plot that it only comprised like 2 paragraphs anyway, why not just remove it altogether. As far as his poverty goes, it's annoying how every time he gets any sort of coinage something happens. Just an unnecessary waste of time.

That all being said I really liked this book, and am looking forward to the next one, and the next trilogy I assume he will be writing with present day Kvothe. When I read The Name of the Wind I ended up reading til 7 am and missing classes..and told myself that wouldn't happen this time. But when I finished and glanced at my clock at 4:30 am Tuesday night (Wednesday morning?) I kinda just went "oops".

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Why is nobody mentioning the whole Meluan's sister ran of with an Edema Ruh part? That combined with the part in book 1 where he sings a children's song (or is it just a poem?) about Lady Lackless and his mom flips out of him makes it pretty clear that his mother was Lady Lackless right? Making Meluan his aunt.

:blink: I honestly did not even think about that. I suppose it's possible, although it might also be just that the Lackless are known not to be friendly to Edema Ruh due to the whole "sister running off" incident.

Didn't Kvothe make a comment to the Maer, though, that Meluan lost her virginity to a Ruh boy? I can't really see her eager to mingle with the Ruh if her family blamed them for her older sister running off when she was a kid.

EDIT: I just thought of something else that might splash cold water on the theory. Kvothe probably would have heard the name of the sister at some point, considering that he was a recipient of tons of court gossip. If she had the same name as his mother, he probably would have mentioned it in his story, at the very least.

With Cinder...why is one of the Chandrian wasting his time leading bandits to steal taxes?

Maybe the Chandrian only congregate when someone is insistently saying their names. The rest of the time they screw around with their own whims and projects.

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Why is nobody mentioning the whole Meluan's sister ran of with an Edema Ruh part? That combined with the part in book 1 where he sings a children's song (or is it just a poem?) about Lady Lackless and his mom flips out of him makes it pretty clear that his mother was Lady Lackless right? Making Meluan his aunt. As far as age goes I'm not sure, but I assumed Meluan was around 25, Kvothe is 16 turning 17, so if his mother was pregnant when she ran off with Arliden(sp?) Meluan would've been 9 at the most, so why is she so angry about it, if anything it helped her out by making her the sole heir, and they can't have been that close if they were like 10 years apart in age. I'm surprised that didn't get resolved in this book too, I thought for sure at some point Meluan would namedrop Arliden the bard and Kvothe would have an OHHHHHH moment, seems like a pretty easy/obvious thing to wrap up no reason to leave it to the next book.

With Cinder...why is one of the Chandrian wasting his time leading bandits to steal taxes? And why does he not use any magic to combat Kvothe? I would assume at this point he is much stronger than Kvothe. Since the "up to present day Kvothe" trilogy is almost over I think it's pretty safe to assume the Chandrian are still out there, so I'm wondering if Cinder is going to end up being the main villain of this trilogy with Kvothe and him fighting in book 3, and then the other Chandrian will comprise the second trilogy. Oh one more thing about this scene, minor gripe but if he can make five bindings and break 5 bow strings, why can't he bind the corpse to 5 people at once and stab them all in the kidney?

1.I disagree with your theory of Kvothe's mother being Meluan's sister. I think this is unlikely because we are told in NOTW that Kvothe had visited his mother's family once. If it was Meluan who was his aunt, you would think that she would remember him and he would remember her. How many children with hair his colour would there be? Rothfuss does make occasional continuity errors though.

2. I've read both books carefully and I can find nothing to explain this idea that there will be a second trilogy or a trilogy of trilogies. Has Pat said it somewhere? It makes a certain amount of sense, particularly since while Pat has laid down a fair amount of leads, nothing earth shattering happens in this book. To wrap up the whole story in the third book even a book as long as Wise Man's Fear, would be hard. But do we have any confirmation?

3. Kvothe and the Edema Ruh more generally- I find it weird he doesn't seek out or know other Edema Ruh in the book.

4. I think Denna's abusive patron is Bedron who is also Master Ash. Any takers for this theory? He is Vint at the right time...

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1.I disagree with your theory of Kvothe's mother being Meluan's sister. I think this is unlikely because we are told in NOTW that Kvothe had visited his mother's family once. If it was Meluan who was his aunt, you would think that she would remember him and he would remember her. How many children with hair his colour would there be? Rothfuss does make occasional continuity errors though.

2. I've read both books carefully and I can find nothing to explain this idea that there will be a second trilogy or a trilogy of trilogies. Has Pat said it somewhere? It makes a certain amount of sense, particularly since while Pat has laid down a fair amount of leads, nothing earth shattering happens in this book. To wrap up the whole story in the third book even a book as long as Wise Man's Fear, would be hard. But do we have any confirmation?

I don't actually remember it saying he met his mother's family. If it does then yeah that's probably wrong. I just remembered the part with his mom getting angry at him for talking about Lady Lackless when he was like 6 or whatever + Loren calling him "Arliden the Bard" and just figured it made sense. I also don't really know why he would've mentioned a silly instance of his mother getting mad at him when he was 6 years old in the story of his life unless it had some purpose. Originally in book 1 I just assumed that she had been some sort of noble woman who had ran away with Kvothe's father, not THE Lady Lackless, but in this book I thought it made that clear. I could be completely wrong though I'll have to reread the beginning of TNotW then.

I honestly don't know if he's ever confirmed a second trilogy I just think I've heard mention of it here and there and kind of assume it would happen. Why bring up the Chandrian if he won't at some point face a few/all of them? And unless he starts "powering up" so to speak at an exponential rate, he won't be fighting them next book. I'll see if I can find any concrete references to it by Patrick somewhere.

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:blink: I honestly did not even think about that. I suppose it's possible, although it might also be just that the Lackless are known not to be friendly to Edema Ruh due to the whole "sister running off" incident.

Didn't Kvothe make a comment to the Maer, though, that Meluan lost her virginity to a Ruh boy? I can't really see her eager to mingle with the Ruh if her family blamed them for her older sister running off when she was a kid.

EDIT: I just thought of something else that might splash cold water on the theory. Kvothe probably would have heard the name of the sister at some point, considering that he was a recipient of tons of court gossip. If she had the same name as his mother, he probably would have mentioned it in his story, at the very least.

Maybe the Chandrian only congregate when someone is insistently saying their names. The rest of the time they screw around with their own whims and projects.

I was more surprised at Kvothe's failure, until considerably later, to connect Meluan Lackless with Lady Lackless of the Chandrian. Why didn't he visit the stone doors that are apparently on her estate while he had a chance?

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Didn't Kvothe make a comment to the Maer, though, that Meluan lost her virginity to a Ruh boy? I can't really see her eager to mingle with the Ruh if her family blamed them for her older sister running off when she was a kid.

I think the comment he made was that she was upset because she was wooed by a Ruh (Kvothe with his songs) faster than her sister was.

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So it's still a trilogy?

I can see Rothfuss wrapping up the "flashback story" in one more book, but not the overall story in the present. Other than the civil war and creepy stuff creeping into the world, we still have a very limited idea of what's going on out there.

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Yeah it's a trilogy I just assumed or thought I heard (not sure which tbh) that there would be a second story after the trilogy wraps up, with like present day Kvothe going back out into the world and doing stuff. Who knows though. Seems like the logical thing to do. Although if it takes him 4 years to edit a book that was already written, even if he intends to write that we may not see it for another 10 years haha.

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I don't actually remember it saying he met his mother's family. If it does then yeah that's probably wrong. I just remembered the part with his mom getting angry at him for talking about Lady Lackless when he was like 6 or whatever + Loren calling him "Arliden the Bard" and just figured it made sense. I also don't really know why he would've mentioned a silly instance of his mother getting mad at him when he was 6 years old in the story of his life unless it had some purpose. Originally in book 1 I just assumed that she had been some sort of noble woman who had ran away with Kvothe's father, not THE Lady Lackless, but in this book I thought it made that clear. I could be completely wrong though I'll have to reread the beginning of TNotW then.

I honestly don't know if he's ever confirmed a second trilogy I just think I've heard mention of it here and there and kind of assume it would happen. Why bring up the Chandrian if he won't at some point face a few/all of them? And unless he starts "powering up" so to speak at an exponential rate, he won't be fighting them next book. I'll see if I can find any concrete references to it by Patrick somewhere.

I'm really bad at finding references in books- if you have an electronic edition of TNOW search for "dreary hell". That was the description of his mother's family she gave him, and he says that they visited, once. I think the reason his mother got angry was the reason she gave, which was he was singing a rhyme about somebody which was crude and dangerous and to allow Rothfuss to stick the rhyme in there.

If anybody else knows how many books there will be altogether, I would appreciate knowing.

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Also, when Kvothe has dinner with Meluan and meets her for the first time, he is looking at her and...

"as I helped her into her seat, her profile struck me with such a strong resemblance that I couldn't help but stare. I knew her, I was certain of it. But I couldn't for the life of me remember where we might have met...

As I took my seat, I tried to guess where I might have seen her before. If the Lackless lands weren't a thousand miles away I would have thought I knew her from the University. But that was ridiculous. The Lackless heir wouldn't study so far from home.

My eyes wandered over maddeningly familiar features...."

Could be attributed to either 1.) seeing her when he was little as you suggested (which at the time he couldn't have been more than 6 so it wouldn't be surprising she didn't recognize him) or 2.) her looking like his mother

Her name was Netalia Lackless. Don't remember Kvothe's mom's name but that wasn't it...but she could've changed it right? Who knows whatever it really isn't a huge thing I guess which is why I was surprised when he didn't confirm it (assuming it is true) in this book.

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Yeah it's a trilogy I just assumed or thought I heard (not sure which tbh) that there would be a second story after the trilogy wraps up, with like present day Kvothe going back out into the world and doing stuff. Who knows though. Seems like the logical thing to do. Although if it takes him 4 years to edit a book that was already written, even if he intends to write that we may not see it for another 10 years haha.

PR has stated in interviews that there will be at least two trilogies: the first covers Kvothe's backstory, the second the present-day conflict. I believe this information was from one of the very first interviews he did, probably Pat's Hotlist.

I find it interesting that despite the author's fear of spoilers (hence the low volume of ARCs), I've yet to see anything in this thread that is really all that spoilery, other than the theories as to Kvothe's parentage, which I don't care about in any case. All of the principle events of WMF are alluded to near the end of TNotW.

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