Balefont Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 I went to a Catholic school from 5th through 12th grade. We had religion class every day. I remember one very important lesson: Turn the other cheek. I remember this lesson being burned into us as one of the main teachings of Jesus.So, my question is for the people who try to follow Jesus' teachings. Do you support the acts of Casey and others like him who stand up against their bullies through fighting back? If so, how do you do this and yet insist you are a follower of Christ? Have the rules to "turn the other cheek" changed or been altered since I was in school oh so many years ago? Have there been a set of rationalizations which now validate and support standing up and fighting back for yourself. I'm genuinely curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormund Ukrainesbane Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 You only have 2 cheeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balefont Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 You only have 2 cheeks.No, I have four. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Bale,Yes, I support Casey. Turn the other cheek is a goal to aspire to. We all fall short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Stone Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 The lesson you are supposed to take from Jesus is if you don't stop the bullying early they will take it far. If Jesus would have body slammed a couple Rabbi's he wouldn't have ended up on a cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brienne the Beauty Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 So, my question is for the people who try to follow Jesus' teachings. Do you support the acts of Casey and others like him who stand up against their bullies through fighting back? If so, how do you do this and yet insist you are a follower of Christ? Have the rules to "turn the other cheek" changed or been altered since I was in school oh so many years ago? Have there been a set of rationalizations which now validate and support standing up and fighting back for yourself. If this was a rule that all Christians were expected to follow all the time there would be no Christians in the army, would there? Not all Christians are pacifists, by a long way. As I understand it, it is a very difficult instruction, intended to test your faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noontidal Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 I think the whole 'turn the other cheek' deal tends to be short-sighted and not apply in many situations.IMO if you have the power to stop or reverse an injustice and don't, then the next person who is victimized by the villan - who has been shown that there are no negative consequences to actions - is victimized by the previous person who had the power to stop it.For example, when a system catches a criminal and early releases that fellow, and that person goes out and harms another person - then those involved in giving that person the opportunity are roughly guilty of the same person's actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Lord of Winterfell Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 I believe there is a difference in opposing vengeance versus simple self-defense. As was pointed out, Casey did turn the other cheek a number of times, and it didn't work. Jesus didn't say you have to let someone beat the crap out of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balefont Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 Bale,Yes, I support Casey. Turn the other cheek is a goal to aspire to. We all fall short.But how do you reconcile this when talking with your children about bullying and then sending them to Sunday school?We all fall short. Not to pick on you, Scot, yet is that really the best you or Christians in general can do? I mean, what's the point of even trying to follow Jesus' teachings if one can say "we all fall short"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Ken,Jesus was doing a lot of cheek turning when he scourged the money changers in the temple. Turn the other cheek doesn't mean never defend yourself. As I said before it is an aspiration one that most fall far short from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eponine Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Well, see the obvious problem is that you're Catholic not Christian. If you were a real Christian soldier, you'd know to never let anyone else take advantage of you.There are a lot of rationalizations that Christians make for not turning the other cheek (and when I say Christians, I do mostly mean the Fundies/Evangelicals that I'm familiar with). Most of them start with the words "Jesus didn't really mean..."ETA: And look at that, some of them in this thread! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S John Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 I've never been a particularly good Catholic anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Bale,So, if I'm Christian and someone is hurting my child I should do nothing to stop them? Do you really think that's what "turn the other cheek" means? If you do how do you reconcile that with the scourging of the moneychangers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balefont Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 If this was a rule that all Christians were expected to follow all the time there would be no Christians in the army, would there? That's... really not goof reasoning at all to support your point.Not all Christians are pacifists, by a long way. But, shouldn't they be according to these teachings?As I understand it, it is a very difficult instruction, intended to test your faith.And, if we also agree that "we all fall short" does this not leave you with perpetual shame of not being good enough?I believe there is a difference in opposing vengeance versus simple self-defense. As was pointed out, Casey did turn the other cheek a number of times, and it didn't work. Jesus didn't say you have to let someone beat the crap out of you.Yes, in casey's example, he did turn his other cheek to a certain extent. However, I don't remember learning that it was ever proper to fight back. I learned that the bully was hurting himself more than hurting you and you should pity the bully and forgive the bully for "he knows not what he does" and the power of forgiveness is not for the bully but for you so you can let it go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Coco,Mis-type I ment to say "wasn't". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormund Ukrainesbane Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Jesus recognized a time and a place for violence. In the aforementioned cleansing of the temple, for example. And also Luke 22:36-38 he advises the apostles to arm themselves on the night of his betrayal. 36He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. 37 It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.” 38 The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.” “That’s enough!” he replied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deaf Dick Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 That was the old Jesus. When the new Jesus comes back, somebody's gettin a righteous beat-down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balefont Posted March 22, 2011 Author Share Posted March 22, 2011 For the record, I'm athiest turned agnostic.Bale,So, if I'm Christian and someone is hurting my child I should do nothing to stop them? Do you really think that's what "turn the other cheek" means? If you do how do you reconcile that with the scourging of the moneychangers?No, from what I was led to believe, you should step in for your child. (I love how much you use your children as examples of justifying any non-Christian actions. You do it very often.)Was "the scourging of the moneychangers" a story than can be used to support Jesus supported certain acts of violence? If so, then I'd say that would trump the "turn the other cheek" to the point where the "turn the other cheek" lesson should just be thrown out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormund Ukrainesbane Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Gotcha, ScotWhat I'm trying to say is that Jesus himself turned the other cheek when it came to his own execution by the government. When it came to usurers, the message was starkly different.Even with the government, he pointed out his right and ability to defend himself and stated he was forbearing them for ulterior motives. Matthew 26:53-5453 Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54 But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Lord of Winterfell Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Errr, no he wasn't. You could easily say it was unprovoked and offensive.I think that is a completely fair characterization. Again, I think the most consistent reading of Jesus' teaching on that score is to avoid vengeance -- getting even for the sake of getting even. Don't respond to petty indignities with a heart filled with malice. But he's not telling people to be blind or completely unresistant to evil.Personally, I can see Jesus giving Casey a gigantic hug for protecting himself and then just walking away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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