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Dany gets under my skin sometimes...


Elrick

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I go back and forth with Dany. I get frustrated or irked by some of the way she handles things, many of what were mentioned. But I also get that they're integral to her character. She's not really totally sane, because she IS the blood of the dragon. All the Targ's seem to be hot heads, and Dany is definitely like that. She can be at times rash or over shoot her emotions into her decisions, whether those are anger, sadness, sympathy or whatever. She can be just as quick to trust, as she is to damn.

I think this also successfully reminds the reader at how young she is. She tries very much to be an adult, but she's only a teenager. She is still at a very impulsive point in her development, coupled with the genetics of crazies and paranoid hot-heads. I think internally there is always that pull and that instinct the be someone like her crazy father, and occasionally it come through in her aggression, but there is also this calculated desire to overcome that, and escape the same destiny that settles in. And so she always kind of walks in that washy gray area. I'm not behind her 100% like I am with other characters, but I'm kind of watching and waiting to see how I feel. Her story definitely has a lot of heartbreak and a lot of triumphs. So I like reading her POVs.

Also the blood of the dragon thing I feel really exposes one of her flaws and that is that she belongs to no one. She doesn't come from anything, or belong to anything and she's constantly trying to remind everyone, particularly herself, what or who she actually is. It's irritating because it's forced down your throat, because she's trying to prove it to everyone. Because if she's not, then she has nothing to stand for. So even this, I feel is just her character being written very well.

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I go back and forth with Dany. I get frustrated or irked by some of the way she handles things, many of what were mentioned. But I also get that they're integral to her character. She's not really totally sane, because she IS the blood of the dragon. All the Targ's seem to be hot heads, and Dany is definitely like that. She can be at times rash or over shoot her emotions into her decisions, whether those are anger, sadness, sympathy or whatever. She can be just as quick to trust, as she is to damn.

You hit the nail on the head with this one. I just can't stand how she gets so self righteous at times but at the same time I find her fascinating and interesting at the same time.

Some of the people on here were right in stating other characters do that themselves when it comes to their houses. Perhaps its a way for them to show that they have loyalty to their houses. All I hope is that she comes to learn compassion and caring for people, maybe even realize that being queen isn't all about ruling like a tyrant.

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Personally I love Dany, but I don't think she's perfect. She does overshoot, she isn't always stable, and she really has no idea how to run a kingdom or how to interact appropriately with her inner circle. She does seem to have a natural leadership quality and charisma, which ahve helped her so far. She has a good heart, but she doesn't yet have political savvy.

I foresee a huge set of trials for her in the Meereeneese Knot. From the spoiler chapters that have been released (like the one mentioned a few posts past) there is nothing but a world of headache coming her way. Her occupation will not go well. Her identity as a caring ruler, her ability to trust her advisers, her relationship with her dragons, her values - everything will crumble before it's solidified.

And even though I like her, I'm fine with that. :)

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What I dislike about Dany is threefold:

1. I love this series for its political complexity. Dany feels like the product of multiple cliched storytelling devices that up until recently I felt the series avoided. She's steeped in prophecy and this and that, she's reached the point where the grand narrative literally falls apart without her. She's practically the only relevant character in the series. We need her to sweep over Westeros and take over again, we need her to fight the others, ONLY DANY CAN SAVE THE DAY!

It feels like her importance is being shoved down my throat, and I resent it. I don't feel like she's earned it.

2. She's boring. It's a similar problem I had with Cat towards the end. Yes, lots of nasty things happen to her. But she DWELLS on them. Constantly. She's an inch away from being that emo kid who cuts themselves and nobody likes to be around. It's monotonous watching someone be miserable. Even the chapters GRRM has shown from ADWD show her to be, guess what, STILL MISERABLE.

Note, I'm not saying she's got no reason to be. It just feels like this is all there is to her. Misery, misery, misery. To quote Monty Python's version of God: GET ON WITH IT!

3. She hasn't had nearly the tough road that some of the other characters have. Yes you can say she's lost this and lost that, but what has she really suffered? Yes she got married and lost her husband and baby. She gained... three dragons, a loyal bodyguard and some decent numbers of troops, a prophecy that makes her the savior of the world, and the beginnings of an empire out of that deal. What's she lost since then? I can't think of anything major unless you count the betrayal of Mormont, which did exactly zero actual damage to her. Compare her to almost every other character in the series, and she seems to be riding high and supping from sweet nectar, but she whinges about it endlessly nonetheless. Almost everyone else has either had their lives completely annihilated, been maimed, or both, and somehow had to scrape the semblance of a life out of the mess.

This one links to point 1. She's getting shoved down my throat as being so damn important, but I'd rather focus on characters who've suffered so immeasurably more and gained so measurably less. I don't feel like she's earned her importance in the story, as silly as I know that sounds.

Don't know if anyone partly or wholly shares these feelings about her, but I think they represent a few different reasons why people have a dislike for her.

Oh, and a lot of people dislike her for the glacial pace of her story arc. Many despair that ADWD is going to be the story of Daeny figuring out how to rule and not invading, because it's simply taking forever for her to actually DO SOMETHING. The patience of many readers is not endless, and she's the biggest patience tester in the series.

I'm sure I'll like her more by the end of ADWD. Either that or she'll be lost to me for all time, like Bran.

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Dany was born without parents or anyone who loved her, except for a brother that abused her. She was then promptly sold into slavery and raped repeatedly night after night and forced to ride endlessly after it. She is in so much pain that she considers killing herself. Then after she eventually comes to terms with that, her husband who she had grown to love was killed along with her child. She was then forced to take charge of her life and had to watch one of her beloved handmaidens die.

Honestly, it is hard to name many other characters in the series in power that have been abused as badly as she has been.

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What I dislike about Dany is threefold:

1. I love this series for its political complexity. Dany feels like the product of multiple cliched storytelling devices that up until recently I felt the series avoided. She's steeped in prophecy and this and that, she's reached the point where the grand narrative literally falls apart without her. She's practically the only relevant character in the series. We need her to sweep over Westeros and take over again, we need her to fight the others, ONLY DANY CAN SAVE THE DAY!

It feels like her importance is being shoved down my throat, and I resent it. I don't feel like she's earned it.

2. She's boring. It's a similar problem I had with Cat towards the end. Yes, lots of nasty things happen to her. But she DWELLS on them. Constantly. She's an inch away from being that emo kid who cuts themselves and nobody likes to be around. It's monotonous watching someone be miserable. Even the chapters GRRM has shown from ADWD show her to be, guess what, STILL MISERABLE.

Note, I'm not saying she's got no reason to be. It just feels like this is all there is to her. Misery, misery, misery. To quote Monty Python's version of God: GET ON WITH IT!

I agree with you. These are my two main problems with Dany too. I remember the first time I was reading the books, I hated Dany chapters because it not only brought me away from the political intrigue of Westeros, but also because I felt like Dany's story was slightly forced. Now I understand her importance, but then I just didn't care because (your second point) Dany was so boring! Just land in Westeros and do something beside parading from city to city already.
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I've been rereading the books and have to admit that Dany still gets under my skin sometimes. I don't like how she burned that Mirri Maaz, the lady was avenging the deaths of her clans and Dany had no right to kill her like this. It was completely unjustified to think that she owed Dany anything in my opinion. For one her husbands tribe was renowned to kill, murder and rape, especially Mirri's people. In this I would be hard pressed not to seek revenge myself! Or how about how she dragged that man that tried to kill her naked. That was simply barbaric and she should have had him killed by a clean death at least in my opinion.

Oh and her going on about her being the blood of the dragon is very annoying. I also got pretty annoyed when she went off on Ned Stark calling him a traitor because he went against her royal family. Ned was the one that saved her life after all and didn't feel what Gregor did was right at all, yet Ned as usual is looked upon as a traitor... Maybe her feelings towards the Stark's will change but I dislike her entitlement beliefs.

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I know what you are saying....I have enjoyed these books, but I have to admit, I just skip over the....Dany part...cuz her whole part int he story is so separate...and even though she is in line to the throne....she is off the deep end in never never land...and I don't care what happens to her. I just don't. How does a teenager just get wisdom and acquire dragon eggs that hatch into baby dragons...HER PART COULD BE LEFT OUT OF THE STORY ENTIRELY......I wanna know where the wolves are and the Stark Family.....they are honest, loyal, and good...but I have to read about this...Dany girl, that could just be left out....things happen for her in another world...but the Stark children are trying to survive politics....and watched their Father get executed for no reason, except for politics....I am half way for this....and half way just dump it.....

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I agree mostly the way I feel about Dany must be the way the anti-cat people feel about that Woman's attitude towards John. You have to watch that kind of talk though plenty of people have the ending written already in their minds John and Dany fall madly in love and fly off on a dragon. Its not a view I embrace but a plausible one considering most of the other cliaments to the throne are dead.

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What I dislike about Dany is threefold:

1. I love this series for its political complexity. Dany feels like the product of multiple cliched storytelling devices that up until recently I felt the series avoided. She's steeped in prophecy and this and that, she's reached the point where the grand narrative literally falls apart without her. She's practically the only relevant character in the series. We need her to sweep over Westeros and take over again, we need her to fight the others, ONLY DANY CAN SAVE THE DAY!

It feels like her importance is being shoved down my throat, and I resent it. I don't feel like she's earned it.

2. She's boring. It's a similar problem I had with Cat towards the end. Yes, lots of nasty things happen to her. But she DWELLS on them. Constantly. She's an inch away from being that emo kid who cuts themselves and nobody likes to be around. It's monotonous watching someone be miserable. Even the chapters GRRM has shown from ADWD show her to be, guess what, STILL MISERABLE.

Note, I'm not saying she's got no reason to be. It just feels like this is all there is to her. Misery, misery, misery. To quote Monty Python's version of God: GET ON WITH IT!

3. She hasn't had nearly the tough road that some of the other characters have. Yes you can say she's lost this and lost that, but what has she really suffered? Yes she got married and lost her husband and baby. She gained... three dragons, a loyal bodyguard and some decent numbers of troops, a prophecy that makes her the savior of the world, and the beginnings of an empire out of that deal. What's she lost since then? I can't think of anything major unless you count the betrayal of Mormont, which did exactly zero actual damage to her. Compare her to almost every other character in the series, and she seems to be riding high and supping from sweet nectar, but she whinges about it endlessly nonetheless. Almost everyone else has either had their lives completely annihilated, been maimed, or both, and somehow had to scrape the semblance of a life out of the mess.

This one links to point 1. She's getting shoved down my throat as being so damn important, but I'd rather focus on characters who've suffered so immeasurably more and gained so measurably less. I don't feel like she's earned her importance in the story, as silly as I know that sounds.

Don't know if anyone partly or wholly shares these feelings about her, but I think they represent a few different reasons why people have a dislike for her.

Oh, and a lot of people dislike her for the glacial pace of her story arc. Many despair that ADWD is going to be the story of Daeny figuring out how to rule and not invading, because it's simply taking forever for her to actually DO SOMETHING. The patience of many readers is not endless, and she's the biggest patience tester in the series.

I'm sure I'll like her more by the end of ADWD. Either that or she'll be lost to me for all time, like Bran.

I agree pretty well with what you're saying. I don't care for her attitude very much. She's being built up by external forces (and her inner attitude) to be a great queen, and I don't see *anything* from what she's done or thought about yet that makes me agree with this level of esteem and power. I'm hoping she grows into it, and that we're watching her grow into this, but in the meantime, I want to shake her and chew her out. That attitude she carries around isn't helping anyone.

Just my opinions, of course.

And yes, many other people have had a very rough life but manage to rise above it, and do not let it define themselves entirely. She seems like she can't rise above it; she's stuck. Perhaps this is her age, but in the meantime, it's frustrating to watch on my end.

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Dany was born without parents or anyone who loved her, except for a brother that abused her. She was then promptly sold into slavery and raped repeatedly night after night and forced to ride endlessly after it. She is in so much pain that she considers killing herself. Then after she eventually comes to terms with that, her husband who she had grown to love was killed along with her child. She was then forced to take charge of her life and had to watch one of her beloved handmaidens die.

Honestly, it is hard to name many other characters in the series in power that have been abused as badly as she has been.

And can you think of any character who has gained as much from that abuse?

This is the crux of my problem. Oh woe is Dany she suffers so much. Last I checked she was still one of the most beautiful women in the world, in charge of an army, the savior of the Westeros (by prophecy), and being courted by everyone while threatened by almost nobody, with dozens of political allies and a good few true friends she can rely on (the unsullied - though not really friends, are very reliable - her blood guard, Barristan, that pit fighter guy, her handmaids, and more to come no doubt).

Shall we tot up how she's doing against the Starks, perchance? Or Tyrion? Or Brienne? Or Davos, perhaps, who has been abandoned by his lord, lost his entire family and seems to be en route to a thankless, friendless death?

Things HAPPEN to Dany, and she gets rewards. What does she DO to earn them?

It is hard to name many other characters in the series who get so much for doing so little.

Note that I'm focusing on POV characters, I think you can say some of the 'NPC's as it were (sorry, lifelong roleplayer) have it rather nice. Most of the Highgarden troupe for one. But I don't care about them. I don't have to spend hours and hours and hours in their heads. So when I say 'characters' I mean POV characters.

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You might also want to check out this thread:

iamthedave,

the savior of the Westeros (by prophecy)

Are you sure? (I assume you mean Azor Ahai, PwwP) Isn't that only Aemon's reading of the prophecy? I personally don't think that GRRM would spell it out so obviously to the reader like that if it wasn't a red herring.

that pit fighter guy

You mean Strong Belwas. Absolutely worst character in the series IMHO. Hands down.

Grogsmash

Dany was born without parents or anyone who loved her, except for a brother that abused her. She was then promptly sold into slavery and raped repeatedly night after night and forced to ride endlessly after it. She is in so much pain that she considers killing herself. Then after she eventually comes to terms with that, her husband who she had grown to love was killed along with her child. She was then forced to take charge of her life and had to watch one of her beloved handmaidens die.

Honestly, it is hard to name many other characters in the series in power that have been abused as badly as she has been

Dare I say this has the hallmarks of Mary-Sue? Since they do have tragic pasts after all :rolleyes:

At the same time though, Dany has hatched the only dragons in the world, gained a sizeable army and doesn't realistically storyline-wise seem to be in any danger of dying soon. She's had plenty of rewards as well in the story.

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If MMD had actually killed Drogo or any of the other Dothraki in vengeance, I could buy this argument. But no. She actually cared for Drogo's wound properly (or tried to) but instead killed Dany's child, who by this point would not even be a Dothraki prince (after Drogo's death, her child Rhaego had no right to inherit anything within the Dothraki culture).

Did MMD care for Drogo's wound properly? I've always been under the impression that whatever she gave him was meant to aggravate rather than heal his wound. True, afterward Drogo didn't follow all of MMD's instructions, but even so I'm dubious that an incomplete treatment meant to heal could lead so quickly and so strongly to mortification.

ETA: As for Dany, my only complaint about her is that it might take too long for her storyline to lead her to Westeros. I really hope she'll have arrived there, or at least be on her way, by the time Dance ends.

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Am I one of the few who generally likes all the characters?

The only exceptions I can think of are Bran and Arya. At times I find his chapters boring and usually when I don't it has to do with some story told within his story (i.e., Knight of the Laughing Tree, the Night's King, etc.). Arya is simply hit and miss -- sometimes her chapters are great, sometimes not much is going on. She can be funny though, whereas Bran tends to be boring himself.

As for Daenerys, from what I gather in this thread, she is hated because she's successful -- a perverse criticism if there ever was one. A suppose if she lost half her nose, drank a lot, and went around making witty statements everything would be forgiven.

In any case, for those that do hate her, have fun reading ADwD -- you'll be skipping a third of the book at the very least.

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Am I one of the few who generally likes all the characters?

The only exceptions I can think of are Bran and Arya. At times I find his chapters boring and usually when I don't it has to do with some story told within his story (i.e., Knight of the Laughing Tree, the Night's King, etc.). Arya is simply hit and miss -- sometimes her chapters are great, sometimes not much is going on. She can be funny though, whereas Bran tends to be boring himself.

As for Daenerys, from what I gather in this thread, she is hated because she's successful -- a perverse criticism if there ever was one. A suppose if she lost half her nose, drank a lot, and went around making witty statements everything would be forgiven.

In any case, for those that do hate her, have fun reading ADwD -- you'll be skipping a third of the book at the very least.

Nope, you're not the only one who generally likes all the characters. I guess I've never read these books thinking about who I like or don't like. To me each and every character is a thread in this very, very rich tapestry. I look forward to all of them. I think they're all interesting in some way and they're all important otherwise George wouldn't have included them. That's my take on it anyway :dunno:

Also, I have a sneaky suspicion you are going to find reason to like Bran and Arya chapters more in the future ;)

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Also, I have a sneaky suspicion you are going to find reason to like Bran and Arya chapters more in the future ;)

I think I'll always find Bran to be my specific exception apart from even his own story. He's literally the one character that I can honestly say his "voice" bothers me a bit. I almost wish his story was narrated from Meera's POV. Although, I must also mention, all of this is very minor -- I can't truly say I hate reading his chapters or his character. Most of the time I'm simply thinking: "I wish he was five years older."

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I think I'll always find Bran to be my specific exception apart from even his own story. He's literally the one character that I can honestly say his "voice" bothers me a bit. I almost wish his story was narrated from Meera's POV. Although, I mus also mention, all of this is very minor -- I can't truly say I hate reading his chapters or his character. Most of the time I'm simply thinking: "I wish he was five years older."

Yes, I see what you're saying although it's not a problem for me. I think Bran will be "growing up" pretty fast in the next little while. You see, I think that Bran is in the process of learning that life is very different than his naive, romanticized version of it (shades of Sansa). And he's still so young! It's going to be harsh, I think. I look forward to watching him on his journey and the conflicts he will be faced with - both external and internal. I think he, too, will be faced with hard choices in the future just like most everyone else. Should be interesting :thumbsup:

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